L185DT - Overheating - Think I've tried everything

jkevans

New member

Equipment
L185DT
Feb 16, 2016
13
0
0
Cedar Vale, Ks
Okay, I have an update...pulled the radiator off and brought it back to town and had it taken apart and cleaned and "rodded." More in an effort to rule that in or out. The radiator shop said that it looked pretty good and they didn't see anything wrong. Now the radiator looks brand new. Money spent, I know, but now I know that it isn't the problem. NOW, I haven't hooked everything back up and filled with anitifreeze yet, so I don't know if that helped any or not, but I'm doubting that it is going to stop the overheating. The only other thing that I havn't replaced (that I feel confident that I could do myself) is the fan belt. But, it is turning the fan fine, and when I press down on it to test the tension, I get about a half an inch give (which I understand through other reading is about what you want). So I doubt that is the issue.

So, if it is a head or block issue, like others have suggested might be the case, how would I be able to tell? I can't see any visible leaks. I don't have any antifreeze in the oil (just changed it prior to digginng into the radiator). And everytime I check the radiator before I use the tractor, it's always full. I've never had to add any antifreeze due to it being low.
 

Tooljunkie

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L1501,home built carry all, mini plow blade.
May 13, 2014
4,150
33
48
60
Lac Du Bonnet, Manitoba,Canada
Its likely a head gasket showing its age. If whisltle is blowing, pressure in radiator is more than cap is rated for, and releasing excess pressure. In the form of steam(aka boilong over) or its pressurizing with combustion gases.
I dont recall you mentioning testing rad cap or at the very least replacing it. I have a tester so i check before replacing them. If cooling system is clean inside and out, rad cap tests good the only thing left is compression pushing its way into cooling system.

Three are test strips to check for combustion gases in coolant, dont know if it works with diesel.

I did a head gasket on a d722 a couple years ago, three cylinder. Not much different and not a big deal. Just read the wsm and dont rush the job.
 

North Idaho Wolfman

Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
Jun 9, 2013
31,017
6,993
113
Sandpoint, ID
What pound cap are you using?
Is your only indication that its running hot the whistle going off?
Rent or borrow a water system pressure tester.
Get infrared thermometer and physically check the temperature of the engine.
 

jkevans

New member

Equipment
L185DT
Feb 16, 2016
13
0
0
Cedar Vale, Ks
I'm using a genuine Kubota cap, specific to that tractor. I get all my parts from an authorized dealer. In fact, one of the first things I tried a couple of years ago was a new cap. So my current radiator cap is only a couple years old. If my memory serves me, that seemed to help, a little back then. I remember it would still overheat, it just took longer, like maybe 15-20 minutes versus the 5-6 minutes it does now.

By the way, a previous post says that if I was to try and replace the head gasket that to "just take my time and read the wsm." What is a "wsm?" Is that some sort of manual, I assume. I have the original manual that came with the tractor, but that just has the exploded part view. Just curious as I may end up going down that road.
 

jkevans

New member

Equipment
L185DT
Feb 16, 2016
13
0
0
Cedar Vale, Ks
Just happened to have the radiator out in my truck. Taking it back out tomorrow to put it all back together and see what happens now that I've had it cleaned and rodded (even though they said it looked pretty good). Took some pics of the radiator cap to see if it tells you guys anything. Looks pretty good except maybe the rubber seal on the back side is a little warped. Not sure if that's a big deal or not. Other than being warped, the rubber doesn't seemed to be degraded in any way.
 

Attachments

D2Cat

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L305DT, B7100HST, TG1860, TG1860D, L4240
Mar 27, 2014
13,968
5,844
113
40 miles south of Kansas City
Can you take your cap to the radiator shop and have them test it? I know, it'll take longer for you to drive there then for them to test it, but then you know facts, and not guessing.

WSM = work shop manual

If you decide you need to remove the head to install a head gasket, don't let it intimidate you. Keep coming back, you can get some step by step coaching.
 

bcbull378

Member

Equipment
GL3830,fel,brush hog,pallet forks,disc,gannon,auger,springtooth,plow,drag,ripper
Sep 6, 2011
579
32
18
Ventura Ca
The thing that gets my attention is you say it's suppose to 1 1/2 gallons of coolant and you can only get half that into it, I think I'd try to flush the block better . There has to be another spot to drain the block even if you have to remove a freeze plug/ soft plug . Then you'll be able to flush the block out real good that seams to be the only thing you haven't covered, just a thought.
 

jkevans

New member

Equipment
L185DT
Feb 16, 2016
13
0
0
Cedar Vale, Ks
Yeah, I've learned a lot about my tractor the last month or so.

I think I need to flush the block out better too (working on it tomorrow). Now that I've got the radiator off, I'm going to stick a hose in the top inlet on the engine where the top radiator hose hooked on and run some water through it for a little bit and see what, if anything, comes out the spot where the bottom radiator hose hooked in. The drain plug on the radiator, and the one one the side of the block just let such a small stream out that I don't know if any solids would pass through or not.
 

85Hokie

Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
BX-25D ,PTB. Under Armor, '90&'92-B7100HST's, '06 BX1850 FEL
Jul 13, 2013
10,791
2,600
113
Bedford - VA
Yeah, I've learned a lot about my tractor the last month or so.

I think I need to flush the block out better too (working on it tomorrow). Now that I've got the radiator off, I'm going to stick a hose in the top inlet on the engine where the top radiator hose hooked on and run some water through it for a little bit and see what, if anything, comes out the spot where the bottom radiator hose hooked in. The drain plug on the radiator, and the one one the side of the block just let such a small stream out that I don't know if any solids would pass through or not.
I have suggested TWICE to place a light acid in it and run it too temperature.
- but I WOULD not do it now.........with a new "radiator" it would be useless to break up any solids and have them float around in the newly cored radiator.

Sticking a water hose in the block and cutting the water on is going to do very little to clean the ol girl out!


If anything it will tell you if the flow is there.....but stick it in the bottom and let it run out the top(place something around the hose to increase and form inside the bottom hose,much like a cork in a bottle) , I know that will make a mess but it will also mimic the path of how the water flows. If water flows freely.....then

I would suggest you hook everything back up .......making sure the belt is tight and I would run straight water for the time being.....and get some readings with the thermometer!!!! Even the cheap ones might be off 5%, but IT WILL TELL you what is hotter than what!!!!

if it does not flow,
then what Daren pointed out could be a possibility - something in the engine is blocking the flow of coolant.

Pressure testing the system is going to tell you a lot also!



And as other have said - a engine at idle will do little to overheat......if you are overheating after JUST five minutes of work, the head gasket is a solid clue.

A bad gasket will not always allow water into oil, but a small seam in the HG can overheat a radiator system quick.....like five minutes!

Report back what temps your are reading.....cause right now you are down to two faults......HG or blockage
 

bcbull378

Member

Equipment
GL3830,fel,brush hog,pallet forks,disc,gannon,auger,springtooth,plow,drag,ripper
Sep 6, 2011
579
32
18
Ventura Ca
Yeah, I've learned a lot about my tractor the last month or so.

I think I need to flush the block out better too (working on it tomorrow). Now that I've got the radiator off, I'm going to stick a hose in the top inlet on the engine where the top radiator hose hooked on and run some water through it for a little bit and see what, if anything, comes out the spot where the bottom radiator hose hooked in. The drain plug on the radiator, and the one one the side of the block just let such a small stream out that I don't know if any solids would pass through or not.
Before you install the newly rodded out radiator , try and hook a garden hose to the drain valve on the side of the block you may have to get creative with some type of reducer and let it run for a good long time to flush the crud out that's settled to the bottom of block . Good luck lets us all know how it's turns out.
 

Tooljunkie

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L1501,home built carry all, mini plow blade.
May 13, 2014
4,150
33
48
60
Lac Du Bonnet, Manitoba,Canada
Think i would remove the fitting on the block and blast a little air while pouring water into it, may lift a little sediment. But half full of gunk, hard to imagine.
 

jkevans

New member

Equipment
L185DT
Feb 16, 2016
13
0
0
Cedar Vale, Ks
Update from yesterday 2/28/16. Hooked back up "new" radiator and filled it up with distilled water then took some temp readings as suggested. Took readings at 3 places. Top rad hose, bottom rad hose, and engine block (right next to the alternator). Took 2 sets of readings. 1st set after idling 20 mins @ 2000 rpms, then after bush hog mowing tall prairie grass for 15 mins (she didn't overheat and I mowed twice as long as before!).

Set 1 (after idle):
Top hose: 107 deg
Btm hose: 85 deg
Block: 125 deg

Set 2 (after 15 mins of bush hog):
Top hose: 152 deg
Btm hose: 108 deg
Block: 175 deg

Nervous to say she is fixed, but she is not overheating! Plan on draining the water from radiator and filling with antifreeze and then mowing for 30 mins and see what happens. A little suspect of my readings because I have read that after mowing my temps should be closer to 215-220 degrees. What do you all think?
 

85Hokie

Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
BX-25D ,PTB. Under Armor, '90&'92-B7100HST's, '06 BX1850 FEL
Jul 13, 2013
10,791
2,600
113
Bedford - VA
"A little suspect of my readings because I have read that after mowing my temps should be closer to 215-220 degrees. What do you all think?"

I think you are exactly correct.......THAT engine is NOT getting hot enough! 220 might be a smidge hot, but 200-210 would be about right for a hard working diesel. But even ifn you were at 220 - and it stayed there(measured at block) I would think you would be fine.

So - do this, go and cut for 30 minutes.......test again all numbers. YOU really want to get the engine/oil hotttt, helps to burn off moisture that gets in there.

You need not take temps while at idle before work....fire it up and run the snot out of it, take temps............THEN idle....low idle for 5-10 minutes, then take another round of temps. You should see a falloff of temps.....O, I am gonna say 30+ degrees!

If all that comes back in as it should, get you some antifreeze mix in there and repeat it all over again.......at a 50-50 mix ( I would go with 70-30 w/a) those temps should climb up. Ethylene Glycol is not a great heat absorber!
It does raise boiling points and does lower freeze points, and the good other stuff in there keeps rust out and lubes a pump, ifn you had one!;)- but it lessons the effect of picking up and transferring heat! Good ol fashion H2O is the best at doing that - so now that you have some major cooling going on, see what happens with the real stuff in there!

I am not picking - but can you shoot with you thermometer around your "inside heated room" just to make sure it is close to what is should be? I find my $20 unit is very close to what the room is based on two other thermometers.

Glad that you are up and running - may it stay that way with no more surprises!:D:)
 

D2Cat

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L305DT, B7100HST, TG1860, TG1860D, L4240
Mar 27, 2014
13,968
5,844
113
40 miles south of Kansas City
I'm not sure I am in agreement with 85Hokie's assessment of your engine temp.

I have an L305. I put a mechanical temp gauge on it. I couldn't get the temp. up past 140 deg. I checked with the infared gauge and got temp. that seem way to low for a diesel engine.

So, I installed a different mech. gauge.

Yesterday I had the tractor out cleaning the barn and various other jobs. Not running it hard, but had it running for about 1 1/2 hours. Temp on new gauge went to 150 deg. When I shut it off I sat there and watched the gauge. It crept up to about 175 and in a couple minutes it was creeping back down.

This engine will not run as hot as one might think it should. It just won't.

It starts easy, almost without GP's, no smoke, no water/oil in wrong places...just runs cooler then.... Oh, and it has a new thermostat.

Is my radiator too big? Or maybe on the older L engines they just run cooler.
 

Diydave

New member

Equipment
L2202 tractor, L185f tractor
Oct 31, 2013
1,635
11
0
Gambrills, MD USA
I'm not sure I am in agreement with 85Hokie's assessment of your engine temp.

I have an L305. I put a mechanical temp gauge on it. I couldn't get the temp. up past 140 deg. I checked with the infared gauge and got temp. that seem way to low for a diesel engine.

So, I installed a different mech. gauge.

Yesterday I had the tractor out cleaning the barn and various other jobs. Not running it hard, but had it running for about 1 1/2 hours. Temp on new gauge went to 150 deg. When I shut it off I sat there and watched the gauge. It crept up to about 175 and in a couple minutes it was creeping back down.

This engine will not run as hot as one might think it should. It just won't.

It starts easy, almost without GP's, no smoke, no water/oil in wrong places...just runs cooler then.... Oh, and it has a new thermostat.

Is my radiator too big? Or maybe on the older L engines they just run cooler.
You could always put a piece of cardboard in front of the rad...:D:D
 

85Hokie

Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
BX-25D ,PTB. Under Armor, '90&'92-B7100HST's, '06 BX1850 FEL
Jul 13, 2013
10,791
2,600
113
Bedford - VA
D2Cat,

lets look at the big picture once again brother, in his original opening - he said,

"1. Oil & filter change.
2. Gear oil change in the gear box of the mower.
3. New air filter.
4. New radiator cap.
5. Ran tractor without rad cap and looked for bubbles (to check for bad seal or cracked heads) -- no bubbles.
6. Drained and pulled radiator (last weekend 2/13/15). Blew out fins (not that dirty), soaked it in vinegar overnight, flushed it with distilled water, reinstalled and filled with new coolant (Premix 50/50).
7. Top rad hose gets hot, bottom hose is cold/cool.

And it ran hot........ok - he states the "Whistle blows when I start to mow " this happens quickly - as if a head gasket is doing it.

so - throughout the process, we are under the assumption that it is being pressurized (HG) or water flow is restricted - or.....a bad cap.

New cap.......did not do the job, so either it is bad and the other problem is still there - or the cap is fine.

Now - we are moving into the radiator, hell - this would be the most obvious to me to be the culprit, (my B7100 gets pissy if the grill is clogged) and a new piece of info - this is a thermosyphon system, no pump to push the water through, it has to do slowly at first and then pick up as the heat starts to change.

SO - he took the radiator to the shop and had it cored, and said : "The radiator shop said that it looked pretty good and they didn't see anything wrong."

Now...........

all things back together with 100% water..........

he says.....

Set 2 (after 15 mins of bush hog):
Top hose: 152 deg
Btm hose: 108 deg
Block: 175 deg


so the machine has gone from at least 212 (steaming whistle blowing) to 152 at top of radiator..........

and NO - a diesel should NOT run cool like that - IT IS VEEEEERY bad for it! Now Dave mentioned placing a piece of cardboard over the air flow, this or something similar is done on big rigs that are running at 60 mph it 12 degree weather, so that it will STAY hot. The people who pay for that rig - want it running hot on purpose. Now remember - my idea of hot would be water at 200+ degrees going in top hose.

Now, somewhere - either the cap and NEW radiator and a cleaned out system has improved the situation - dramatically!!!!

Now remember - this is a thermosyphon system, unlike your L305, which has a good ol' thermostat and pump, this type of system the water is still at idle, the movement - other than the engine shaking the hell out of it, is stationary! Once heat is absorbed, and this happens somewhat slowly, but unlike a forced system, this water starts a slowwwww process to move. In a thermostat system, water sits still UNTIL is gets hot enough to open the stat, and once open, all the water is now flowing freely. This system only moves as fast as convection moves it, so that fact that the radiator is doing a great job - seems to be the answer, or all the pieces of the puzzle have helped.

BUT after 15 minutes - the water still has not reached temps - it needs to get HOT, ok - not 212 - but up there as said before, hot enough so the engine oil burns off the bad stuff. That little 2 banger is gonna need a work load placed on it and roll with the punches!!!

Now - glad as I am that it is cool - the engine should be getting hotter than that - and I think it will, like NIW said - RUN IT!
Run the hell out of it.....but...

stop in the middle of the field, after 30-45 minutes, and write down the temps.


Once you get to your mixture of antifreeze - I think you will see the system get and stay hotter.....and once you see it get there - let it idle back for 10 minutes, and you'll see it come back down to numbers that you got before.

Personally - I'd cut the top hose, insert a temp gauge and then you can have your cake and eat it too! About a $40 peace of mind!:D:)
 

jkevans

New member

Equipment
L185DT
Feb 16, 2016
13
0
0
Cedar Vale, Ks
Back with an update from yesterday (2-28-16). NO OVERHEATING !!!

Mowed a lot longer this time (1hr) with just H20, and then 50/50 mix.

First, tested my temp gun inside like suggested. Accurate. Shot a couple of places inside and it was reading 68 deg, just like my inside thermostat was reading.

My temps that I shot (after mowing for 1hr, then at idle after 5mins)...

Just H20, after mow:
Top hose = 168 deg
Btm hose = 122 deg
Block = 180 deg

Just H20, after 5 mins idle:
Top hose = 122 deg
Btm hose = 88 deg
Block = 140 deg

Drained H20 and put in 50/50 mix (bet there was still a little water in the system though)

50/50 mix, after mow:
Top hose = 158 deg
Btm hose = 197 deg
Block = 190 deg

50/50 mix, after 5 mins idle
Top hose = 140 deg
Btm hose = 95 deg
Block = 168 deg

Now, I know that I didn't maybe "work the snot" out of her, but it was a real world test, in the fact that I don't normally mow more than an hour to an hour and a half at a time (bad back). It was dry, dusty prairie grass that was about 3 feet high, and littered with invasive r cedar trees that were about 2-3 feet tall, hundreds of them. Pretty good/realistic work out in my book. I would occasionally jump off and shoot temps real quick to just keep an eye on her. She was fine each time. I'm gonna run her again next weekend (after I blow out the radiator and air filter) just to put my mind at ease, but I'm thinking she's good to go!

My best guess on my situation...
To the radiator guys that rodded my radiator...might not of looked that bad to those guys, right, but I bet they see some pretty bad stuff. It's all relative. So, that helped, I'm sure. Since I learned more about my tractor and it's cooling system through this forum, and my confidence grew, I also started filling up the radiator by pulling the top hose off, and filling up the block first, then putting the top hose back on and then filling the rest of the way through the radiator, in an effort to not trap any air pockets. Doing this, I did notice that I got a lot closer to recommend amount that she was supposed to take (within 8-12 ounces). I also learned the value of a temp gun, so I'm going to return the one I borrowed from my brother, and go buy one for myself :D

I'll report back one more time next weekend, but I think I got her back in service. Now to get caught back up on all the chores I needed her for...

Thanks to everyone that commented and helped me troubleshoot to get her back up and running, I love that little tractor.

P.S.
I know I'll start doing regular service on my radiator now, I know that!