Kubota Electric Tractor Survey

[Deleted member 47704]

It isn’t a fad for power companies to want to save money. Natural gas is so much cheaper than coal as a fuel, and it’s very abundant in North America.

I wasn't referring to NG I was referring to the carbon obsession.
This whole state wanted to save money with options other than nukes which is the most expensive power option. so naturally the state politicians signed us up for nuke power for the next 20 years.
We can talk all we want, but the bottom line is the powers that be will commit us to expensive and dirty nukes.
We have a power plant that is off line but have to spend money to maintain it because its leaking.Then we have to import power from canada.The breast cancer incidence in that county is higher than the rest of the state by 21% and Sr-90 in baby teeth was 128% higher than other towns.

These plants operate only 66% of the time and dropping.

The flounder fishery has seen a drop in numbers also.


Then when we wanted to build a NG plant the towns people got a petition and held it up for years.

 

[Deleted member 47704]

You think that it’s economical to ship a bulky heavy product around the world, or will those countries import from Australia or elsewhere in Asia? Asia does have significant coal resources of its own. It seems like exports from the far away North America is a short term situation.

We have been shipping coal to china, but barry o put the brakes on that cost us a ton of money

 

[jyoutz]

Interesting. I live in t

I wasn't referring to NG I was referring to the carbon obsession.
This whole state wanted to save money with options other than nukes which is the most expensive power option. so naturally the state politicians signed us up for nuke power for the next 20 years.
We can talk all we want, but the bottom line is the powers that be will commit us to expensive and dirty nukes.
We have a power plant that is off line but have to spend money to maintain it because its leaking.Then we have to import power from canada.The breast cancer incidence in that county is higher than the rest of the state by 21% and Sr-90 in baby teeth was 128% higher than other towns.

These plants operate only 66% of the time and dropping.

The flounder fishery has seen a drop in numbers also.


Then when we wanted to build a NG plant the towns people got a petition and held it up for years.

Interesting. I live in the state that is the birthplace of the atomic age (New Mexico). All of our coal plants are converting to natural gas, with sizable wind and solar farms too.

 

[jyoutz]

Not everything is about politics. Economics rules over the long term.

 

[minthral]

I think an electric tractor could have some advantages, but the problem is batteries are not very compact. The extra weight would be good on a tractor, but I don't think there will be enough space to have decent range. Electric motors/battery packs perform poorly with high load/stress, so the battery would be depleted even faster...what the manufacture will probably end up doing is initially making the tractor slower/weaker to balance this out I guess. In comparison, diesel motors like running hard and fast. End of the day, if an electric tractor isn't as effective tool as a diesel one, why bother...

Based on my experience with electric actuators, I think hydraulics are better (various reasons)...of course you could have both an electric engine tractor with hydraulics.

Everyone knows that electronics are not reliable. Don't think a tractor with lots of electronics will hold up well. I'm certainly not going to be a beta tester.

Last, people who typically buy tractors use them rural areas where high speed charging would be limited. Some people use them in completely remote areas with no electricity near by.

 

[minthral]

Maybe can see use-case for 'baby tractors' used in suburban areas. Basically a large mower with a bucket for the home owner. Battery would probably last 2-3 hours and it wont be that powerful, but perhaps enough.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

re: Everyone knows that electronics are not reliable

I have to disagree. PROPERLY designed and built 'electronics' can be very,very reliable. I have a 30+ year old remote energy control system, uses up to 15 miles of Bell wires to control clients building heaters, HVAC, etc. Zero issues with nearby lightning strikes, able to work on a single wire, can detect breaks in the wires, has never been sucessfully hacked since day one.
The problem I see with 'electronics' (especially automotive ) is the lack of proper design/build. near total lack of 'bullet proofing' the 'systems', lack of correct wiring/connections, bloatware that is a hodgepodge of patchwork code.

As for 'battery' powered, heard that NYC fire was started by an Ebike battery going 'poof'. THAT should sound bells coast to coast......ticking timebombs......

 

[minthral]

I work in IT and can say even the best electronic hardware in the world is prone to failure. Everything is designed to be redundant expecting it to fail at a certain point. There are studies showing the average life span and stuff just starts failing like a clock 3-5 years later, requiring repair. Stuff is stamped end of life and support for many reasons. Some stuff may end up lasting 10 years, but no one is going to have replacement parts or support for it.

Fact is it's complicated and there are so many points of failure. Some failures end up being unintentional systemic manufacturing defects, but other times chips just start failing due to age. Sometimes everything is good on a board, but a few cheap Chinese chips break the whole thing. We're talking equipment stored in datacenters and think about stuff installed on a humid tractor that deals with temperature swings daily. The automotive electronics are not bad and in fact often really simple, it's just electronics are electronics and its hard to deal with these conditions.

Often is a bigger problem is software that allows the hardware to work. A lot of today's software is created in india or other countries. Often they bad code and high turn over...after X years no one knows what to do with it or how it works, so they just create something. Then the cycle repeats.

A diesel tractor has electronically controlled stuff on it, but it's not too complicated. Other than that, it's a mechanical thing, which WILL last up till there is a physical failure or wear.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

re: There are studies showing the average life span and stuff just starts failing like a clock 3-5 years later, requiring repair.

this confirms that their 'stuff' isn't designed properly,at least from an engineering point. It's GREAT from a marketing/resell point though ! They'll spec regular chips NOT 'industrial' versions, saves them pennies BUT millions of pennies ad up to ....profit. Use 1oz PCB instead of 2oz, they don't care the board fails after the magical 5 years.

More often than not, the device, whatever it is, is built for high profit margin and repeat sales. Don't matter if it's a car, truck, PC, or 'white goods'.. the bottom line IS the 'bottom line'. Comapnies want as much cash out of YOUR pocket and into theirs.

 

[minthral]

re: There are studies showing the average life span and stuff just starts failing like a clock 3-5 years later, requiring repair.

this confirms that their 'stuff' isn't designed properly,at least from an engineering point. It's GREAT from a marketing/resell point though ! They'll spec regular chips NOT 'industrial' versions, saves them pennies BUT millions of pennies ad up to ....profit. Use 1oz PCB instead of 2oz, they don't care the board fails after the magical 5 years.

More often than not, the device, whatever it is, is built for high profit margin and repeat sales. Don't matter if it's a car, truck, PC, or 'white goods'.. the bottom line IS the 'bottom line'. Comapnies want as much cash out of YOUR pocket and into theirs.

True and electric tractor will follow the same principles.

 

[ctfjr]

Some mathamatics which supposes that EVERY INCH of landmass on the planet is covered by solar-panels reveals that we use more energy than we could EVER capture from sunlight. (recall that only about 30% of the planet gets full sun at any given instance)

No reference? Here's one solar power

says:
We Could Power The Entire World By Harnessing Solar Energy From 1% Of The Sahara

Of course this is from 5 years ago. Things have changed. Solar panel are much less more efficient.

 

[lynnmor]

We Could Power The Entire World By Harnessing Solar Energy From 1% Of The Sahara

I will gladly plug in to the Sahara if you supply the extension cord.

 

[DaveFromMi]

What % of the Mojave would be be needed to power Calif. ?
See anything happening out there?

 

[Deleted member 47704]

What % of the Mojave would be be needed to power Calif. ?
See anything happening out there?

The greenie weenies will shut down any attempt to tap into it.

 

[SDT]

No reference? Here's one solar power

says:
We Could Power The Entire World By Harnessing Solar Energy From 1% Of The Sahara

Of course this is from 5 years ago. Things have changed. Solar panel are much less more efficient.

What nonsense.

 

[NHSleddog]

No reference? Here's one solar power

says:
We Could Power The Entire World By Harnessing Solar Energy From 1% Of The Sahara

Of course this is from 5 years ago. Things have changed. Solar panel are much less more efficient.

Only a couple issues,
Everything ever put in the desert (aside from the pyramids) is either covered by the sand, or blasted by the sand and covered in dust - thousands of years of history to go by.

We would have to get the world population to move there into the desert so they can use some of the "entire world power". About a 300 mile range. I'm not moving.

Most of those berkley professor "feel good" plans don't work in real life.

 

[Deleted member 47704]

Only a couple issues,
Everything ever put in the desert (aside from the pyramids) is either covered by the sand, or blasted by the sand and covered in dust - thousands of years of history to go by.

We would have to get the world population to move there into the desert so they can use some of the "entire world power". About a 300 mile range. I'm not moving.

Most of those berkley professor "feel good" plans don't work in real life.

You mean dragging icebergs to africa is a bad idea.

 

[ctfjr]

lol - I don't think anyone is seriously considering powering the world with electricity from the Sahara - at least not now with current technology.

A previous poster quoted an unnamed source as saying if we covered the entire world's landmass with solar panels we could only generate 30% of the energy required.

It does start a discussion of what can be done. If a tiny town like Greensburg, KS can accomplish this 100% green energy certainly others can creatively follow their lead and be part of the solution.

Or. . . you can be just a naysayer and be part of the problem. No one is twisting your arm.

 

[Deleted member 47704]

lol - I don't think anyone is seriously considering powering the world with electricity from the Sahara - at least now now with current technology.

A previous poster quoted an unnamed source as saying if we covered the entire world's landmass with solar panels we could only generate 30% of the energy required.

It does start a discussion of what can be done. If a tiny town like Greensburg, KS can accomplish this 100% green energy certainly others can creatively follow their lead and be part of the solution.

Or. . . you can be just a naysayer and be part of the problem. No one is twisting your arm.

None of these solutions address the real problem. The population growth rate is out of control, the days of having large families is over. The government will twist your arm.

 

[BruceP]

A previous poster quoted an unnamed source as saying if we covered the entire world's landmass with solar panels we could only generate 30% of the energy required.

Perhaps I said it poorly... what I intended to suggest is that approximately 30% of the planet gets usable sunlight at any one time. (assuming no clouds). Do not forget that solar panel efficency falls off quickly as the light moves away from 90 degrees of the panels.


Also remember that "energy required" means replacing ALL of our energy-requirements.... not just current electric usage. If we were to include EVERY petroleum user, steel-smelting, ocean-shipping...etc , solar falls short.

This comes around to the original discussion of electric heavy equipment. I do not forsee any replacement for diesel-powered earth-moving equipment.