It will LIFT 1900 but will it HOLD more?

The Evil Twin

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L2501, LA526,
Jul 19, 2022
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dang that's a heavy tandem trailer....must have 8 bolt rims and really,really good brakes.

one 'possible' way, providing the tractor is rated to PULL that weight...

attach trailer to 3pt,using trailer jack to take the weight, chain 3pt securely so it can't go up or down(1-2" slack ok...),then raise jack up. 3pt takes 90% of the weight, chains the last 10%.
Yeah man. 8 lug 8000lb axles with 12x2.5" drums and G rated tires.
I'm thinking the weak point is going to be the rear axle. Assuming the weight distribution of an unloaded tractor is 50/50, I'd be 700 # over GAWR. So this was a folly to think about doing. Over 3 pt and axle.....asking for trouble.
 

Freeheeler

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b2650 tlb
Aug 16, 2018
706
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Knoxville, TN
We all like to use our tractors for all kinds of stuff, why not. In this particular case it sounds like your tow vehicle is the more appropriate tool for this task.
 
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The Evil Twin

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L2501, LA526,
Jul 19, 2022
2,815
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Virginia
We all like to use our tractors for all kinds of stuff, why not. In this particular case it sounds like your tow vehicle is the more appropriate tool for this task.
I believe you are correct. I decided against it for the big trailer. Smaller ones, sure. Not for the beast though.
 

Jchonline

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Yeah man. 8 lug 8000lb axles with 12x2.5" drums and G rated tires.
I'm thinking the weak point is going to be the rear axle. Assuming the weight distribution of an unloaded tractor is 50/50, I'd be 700 # over GAWR. So this was a folly to think about doing. Over 3 pt and axle.....asking for trouble.
Agree. Just use the truck you pull it with.
 
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Vigo

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B6100, B8200
Jan 9, 2022
595
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San Antonio Texas
So i agree not to try it in this particular case.

But i HAVE put something on the 3pt that the 3pt won't lift, helped it lift with a floor jack, and then carried the 'held' load somewhere else to put down. So in general, that is a thing that is POSSIBLE.

But as said it would depend on whether there was a safety relief valve. The normal high pressure relief valve is only hooked to the 3pt cylinder when the 3pt valve is in the raise position. Once you let off that handle the cylinder is now isolated from the relief valve which means it COULD 'hold more than it could lift'. But, if that's the case you are now taking a chance of breaking metal rather than pissing some fluid through a valve. So it's 'at your own risk'.

Lots of tractors also have the option to 'chain up' the 3pt in a certain position, they even give you chain slots and some have the chain on them from factory. So it would be possible to chain up once lifted if you wanted to mitigate the risk to the rest of the 3pt components.
 
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NCL4701

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L4701, T2290, WC68, grapple, BB1572, Farmi W50R, Howes 500, 16kW IMD gen, WG24
Apr 27, 2020
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Seems to be agreement moving the specific big trailer with the specific tractor isn’t advisable. Still the hold capacity v lift capacity question is a pertinent one for a variety of scenarios.

Dealing with a variety of tractors over the years, this is my understanding with the caveats: 1) all tractors may not be identical, 2) this is relevant to open center systems such as those on the UTs, CUTs, and SCUTs most here have, and 3) I’m certainly open to correction by those with more expertise.

There is a relief valve, but it’s one relief valve for the whole system. It’s on the output side of the pump to prevent an over pressure situation damaging the pump. For example trying to lift an immovable object with the 3 point creates a deadhead situation for the pump so the relief valve releases enough pressure to protect the pump from grenading.

However, if the control valve for the cylinder involved in having a load put on it is closed, the fluid stuck between the closed valve and the hydraulic cylinder ram has nowhere to go when the pressure in the line rises and the cylinder doesn’t move as there is no relief valve between the control valve and cylinder. Fluid isn’t compressible so if you put a load on a hydraulic cylinder that is immobilized by a closed control valve, it will hold the load until something breaks. Could blow a seal, blow a hose, or more likely bend or break the axle/loader/whatever the cylinder supports.

So, yes the three point, loader, or any other hydraulic cylinder on an open center tractor will hold a LOT more than it will lift, but it’s a really bad idea to intentionally set up a scenario where it’s holding a load well over its capacity to lift.
 
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Vigo

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B6100, B8200
Jan 9, 2022
595
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San Antonio Texas
if the control valve for the cylinder involved in having a load put on it is closed, the fluid stuck between the closed valve and the hydraulic cylinder ram has nowhere to go when the pressure in the line rises and the cylinder doesn’t move as there is no relief valve between the control valve and cylinder. Fluid isn’t compressible so if you put a load on a hydraulic cylinder that is immobilized by a closed control valve, it will hold the load until something breaks. Could blow a seal, blow a hose, or more likely bend or break the axle/loader/whatever the cylinder supports.
Well damn, you're making me feel self-conscious that i somehow didn't make any sense when i said the exact same thing the post before! :cautious:

But yes, i agree it's generally a bad idea to go very far beyond the lifting limits of a loader or 3pt because the limits actually are set where they are (through selection of a certain relief pressure) to protect the tractor and operator, not because it can't do more once.. or a few times, or under certain conditions.. They have to set it to a 'lowest common denominator' level that will not allow a hamfisted operator to kill themselves or break the tractor in half just by running one valve handle back and forth. Sometimes it's just that if you pick up any harder on the 3pt you won't be able to steer even with weight added to the front, and sometimes it's because if you go much further something will bend/break. Or, you pick the front wheels up and nothing bends or breaks... but then you let it slam back down and break your bellhousing in half. :oops:😂

IMG_8576.JPG

I had to 'help' lift this up with the floor jack sticking out of the bucket there, and once it was up i drove it about an 1/8 mile.. but when i had to go uphill it was all steering brakes because the front tires wouldn't stay down. If there was no FEL i would have needed a tailwheel!!
 
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NCL4701

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L4701, T2290, WC68, grapple, BB1572, Farmi W50R, Howes 500, 16kW IMD gen, WG24
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Well damn, you're making me feel self-conscious that i somehow didn't make any sense when i said the exact same thing the post before! :cautious:
Sorry about that. The thoroughness of my review of the entirety of the thread was lacking. A simple “Like” on my part would have been sufficient.
 

Vigo

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B6100, B8200
Jan 9, 2022
595
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San Antonio Texas
You know what, I shouldn't have said anything about it. You never know what minorly different wording is going to make it 'click' for somebody anyway. I was childish to comment that.. my apologies.
 
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