Inverter generator

[skeets]

Well the old faithful DeBillvis has given up the ghost for the last time. I mean really 22 years old it is time, so I am asking about these invertor generators,,, I get the 3 phase to AC then rectify it to DC to clean the wave form up and then invert it back to usable AC. The question is this, are the wave forms out of a regular gen set really that dirty? Anybody have one and what has been your findings,,, Yes tons of stuff on line, I however find it better to ask folks I know,,,,, more or less

 

[85Hokie]

They can be that "dirty" for very sensitive stuff like computers - some motors will not like the softened square waves that are typically produced by low end invertors.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Most electronics like inverter power over a dirty generator power.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

'regular' generator... the output will be a real nice CLEAN sinewave.. tis the 'nature of the beast'.

'inverter' generator... output might be 'clean' or 'dirty' or in between. It'll vary from make to make, model to model, actual power being used. You need a spectrum analyzer ( you HAVE one right ?) to see what's happening......

 

[DaveFromMi]

The main advantage of inverter generators is fuel savings.
I recently got a Honda 3000iS. We lost power for a day and I ran 2 upright freezers, 1 small chest freezer, a large refrigerator and powered some electronics on it. It was quiet, but responded quickly to load changes. Used about 1.5 gallons of gas in 12 hours.

 

[The Evil Twin]

The only advantage over a good standard generator is fuel consumption and noise. I don't know about y'all, but none of my electronics run on AC power. Pretty much anything with a circuit board has an inverter in it. Laptop input is 110-240vac. Same for the TV and all the entertainment stuff. Fancy fridge? Same voltage requirements (it is a VSD compressor). The inverter folks scared everyone into thinking they will cause their iPad to burst into a nuclear flame without an inverter generator.
Fact is, a good "contractor" generator supplies power of the same quality that the utility does. I've run my entire house off of one for days. Solid 60hz and 119 vac from start to finish. Did your TV die when the power went out? If not then it survived dirty power. As did the fridge. Inverter generator are a feel good thing. I've never lost a single gadget in decades of RV living on a contractor grade open frame Generac gene.

 

[i7win7]

The biggest problem with inverter gens is availability of replacement inverter when it dies. Sad to scrap a good engine when the electronics die.

I chose to buy an Ecoflow solar gen. It can go between the AC outlet and the device(s) you want to run during power failure, like a UPS box. I am impressed with these units and will replace all of my UPS units with Ecoflow Delta 2's.

I have the Ecoflow pro with extra battery running the pellet stove. This will be switched to air conditioner in a few months. The larger Ecoflow units can be paired with a smart gas gen. Gas gen has a 48v DC cable (and AC outlet) to charge solar gen batteries and can be controlled by the solar gen or phone app.

Solar panels can be added later if your happy with original setup (saves on gas/propane). Only time will tell if Ecoflow was a good investment.

 

[GeoHorn]

Evil has said it….. There is no computer…not even one of the older desktops…which run without first internally modifying the AC with a power-supply that filters and cleans up the power.

I have a cheap, chineese copy ordinary contractor-type, open frame 3,000-watt generator I bought from Pep Boys when they decided they were no longer going to be a parts-store…. I paid $159 for new in the box…. It has run everything including all the accy’s in the Airstream trailer….which is the latest flat-screen digital TV, stereo, BlueRay, and the A/S LED lighting, 12V water pumps, Samsung convection/MicroWave… all supposedly “sensitive” electronics…. the AirConditioner, Furnace, refrigerator (digital circuit board controls)….been doing it for over 6 years without any problems whatsoever.

What do you think the power company uses? Water out of the dam-penstock spins a mechanical generator exactly like the typical portable generator.… “clean sine-wave” my arse !

Inverter/gennys are quieter, expecially when not having to put out max demand… but they are also more sensitive to issues that can introduce failure modes than contractor types…..after all…they introduce yet-another electronic device between the armature and the output receptacle. You could do the same thing by plugging your own converter-to-inverter into the system. What makes for more complication? IMO

If the noise isn’t an issue for you…I’d vote for the conventional portable.

 

[zuiko]

You are correct that almost all electronic equipment today will accept a wide range of voltages and frequencies and will easily run on a conventional generator. The one exception is a UPS battery backup. It expects tight tolerances for the input and will disconnect if the frequency or voltage is beyond a set limit.

Frequency for a UPS typically needs to be within 5% of 60Hz, anything beyond that and it will disconnect from the power line. A regular generator produces a frequency that is dependent on the engine speed and easily has more than 5% variance, especially as the load changes. This is where an inverter generator will produce a cleaner signal that a UPS will accept.

 

[The Evil Twin]

When sized correctly, the generator doesn't bog down enough for it to care. Hence, the reason data centers can run their UPS, servers, chillers, pumps, fans and vending machines on a generator. They don't use inverter generators. They are sized correctly.
The problem is when normal folk try to run their 6700 square foot house off of a 9kw Lowes special generator.

 

[BruceP]

The one exception is a UPS battery backup.

Are you aware that a UPS is simply an inverter? (It converts the DC from battery into 60Hz sine-wave)

HENCE: It is kinda silly to have an 'inverter' generator feeding a UPS... the energy from the gasoline passes through 'processing' multiple times thus reducing efficiency at each step.

HOWEVER: Using a NON-inverter generator to feed a UPS for the most sensitive electronics is a good idea.

In this way, one can use NON-inverter generator to power refrigerator, freezer, furnace...etc.....then also feed thru UPS if there is a need for 'clean' power.


I do agree with others that the big advantage for inverter generator is fuel-savings.
The big DISadvantage for inverter generator is when it breaks.... repairs cost more than new machine.

 

[The Evil Twin]

But then you can just use a power conditioner. Same thing, just no batteries.

 

[Flintknapper]

The main advantage of inverter generators is fuel savings.
I recently got a Honda 3000iS. We lost power for a day and I ran 2 upright freezers, 1 small chest freezer, a large refrigerator and powered some electronics on it. It was quiet, but responded quickly to load changes. Used about 1.5 gallons of gas in 12 hours.

My Yamaha is the same way. Quiet, fuel miser, will run all the refrigerators and freezers, computer, TV's until the power came back on or I decided to get the 12Kw out. None of that matters now though since we went Generac 24K standby.

But yes, Inverter technology is nice to have.

I do agree with others that the big advantage for inverter generator is fuel-savings.
The big DISadvantage for inverter generator is when it breaks.... repairs cost more than new machine.

^^^^^

Buy a 'good' one.

Mine is 10 years old this past June and has at least 400 hours on it. Still running great. Always starts on the first pull. Very miserly on fuel. Not saying it is the right gen-set for everyone....but its been mighty good to me.

 

[zuiko]

Of course large commercial gas/diesel generators will regulate the power sufficiently, but that's not what we're talking about here, I thought we were discussing the small portable generators.

As for why you would use a UPS with a generator, how else would you keep critical equipment running between the time the power goes out and the generator kicks in?

 

[RCW]

This thread has been enlightening. I have a older 5.5k generator that is showing its age and limitation for capacity.

I had another thread about a portable generator ~ 10,000 watts.

Got thinking inverter was only way to go. Tough sledding at 9,000 watts or so. Expensive. $2-3,000, versus a contractor-type at ~$1-2,000.

After this thread - - thinking I should go back to a regular portable generator, and take inverter off the table.

 

[fried1765]

My Yamaha is the same way. Quite, fuel miser, will run all the refrigerators and freezers, computer, TV's until the power came back on or I decided to get the 12Kw out. None of that matters now though since we went Generac 24K standby.

But yes, Inverter technology is nice to have.

View attachment 97489


^^^^^

Buy a 'good' one.

Mine is 10 years old this past June and has at least 400 hours on it. Still running great. Always starts on the first pull. Very miserly on fuel. Not saying it is the right gen-set for everyone....but its been mighty good to me.

I have that EXACT same generator for backup here in Florida.
Have only used it twice in ten years, but it is a sweet little machine, and I will never surrender it.

I also have a Honda EM 6500 water cooled unit up North.
A truly wonderful piece of machinery!

 

[Magicman]

thinking I should go back to a regular portable generator,

Just get a freq meter and adjust the generator RPM's so that it is producing in the 60Hz range.

My generator has a built freq meter.

 

[AndyM]

You are correct that almost all electronic equipment today will accept a wide range of voltages and frequencies and will easily run on a conventional generator. The one exception is a UPS battery backup. It expects tight tolerances for the input and will disconnect if the frequency or voltage is beyond a set limit.

Frequency for a UPS typically needs to be within 5% of 60Hz, anything beyond that and it will disconnect from the power line. A regular generator produces a frequency that is dependent on the engine speed and easily has more than 5% variance, especially as the load changes. This is where an inverter generator will produce a cleaner signal that a UPS will accept.

I can attest to this - I have a UPS to protect my NAS, Routers et al - the old 9000 generac worked ok when new but the UPS kicked it out at one point. A new cheapo 11,500 unit seems to work with it fine (for now). Both are non inverter.

 

[The Evil Twin]

Of course large commercial gas/diesel generators will regulate the power sufficiently, but that's not what we're talking about here, I thought we were discussing the small portable generators.

As for why you would use a UPS with a generator, how else would you keep critical equipment running between the time the power goes out and the generator kicks in?

If one has such critical equipment then they would already have a UPS. Generator type would not matter for it in any event. Sized appropriately, a standard unit would be fine. Any size- homeowner to business owner
Commercial/ industrial units don't regulate power. They regulate RPM and inherently, generate pure sine wave power. Power quality for "sensitive" equipment is done outside the generator with equipment that conditions the power from the utility also.

 

[skeets]

Thanks guys, looks like I am going to look for a plain everyday 10kva portable genset