I wonder about new Kubota tractors...
- Thread starter SidecarFlip
- Start date
I would bet everything on it. Their will be applications for internal combustion engines but a better mousetrap is on the horizon. Every auto company is betting on it too.
I don't think it will be one day and the ICE is extinct but it will decline to a mechanical niche, a curiosity. It has had a long run and has changed the world and made it a better place but it will be replaced by something better and what replaces it will also be replaced one day. The internal combustion engine will join swords, horses, wooden ships, CRT TVs, VCRs and land lines. All were marvels of technology and even necessities at one time. Innovations usually start out as crude and not so useful but prove a concept. The Monitor and Merrimack were inefficient, impossible to handle tubs that would more likely drown you than fight but they proved a concept and the days of wooden ships were over.
Not in my lifetime it won't happen. As far as automotive manufacturers going to EV's that is more of a push from the government than actual need from consumers. Called government 'guidance'....lol
For now, I'm quite content with my no electronic mechanically injected diesels. Learned long time ago that the more complex something is, the better chance it has of breaking down.
Cars are certainly more complex now but they don't break down like they used to. They are safer, far more efficient, don't rust as much, faster, handle much better, last longer and are more reliable. But I still love old cars more LOL
Bingo, Flip.
Much too well educated, read, and experienced to believe otherwise.
SDT
I don’t have a lot of hope for Tier 4 and beyond engines. Not just in tractors but anything that requires a prime mover. I hope we go back to about 1997 technology, but doubt it will happen.
I'm quite comfortable there myself. 97 Diesel pickup, tractors are Tier 2 which is, no added on emissions hardware.
I agree completely. EVs are certainly not a better mousetrap. Automakers saw what the Obama administration was pushing, and erroneously bet on Hillary becoming president, with more of the same. So they went full steam on EV development, assuming the gov would force this down everyone's throat and they wouldn't be caught napping. Meanwhile, first attempts like the Chevy Bolt, despite winning Motor Trend Car of the Year, were quietly killed off because nobody wanted one.
The joke is that domestic auto giants like Ford and GM are all but killing off "cars" and building only trucks and SUVs. Truck sales are the most popular thing in the US, complete with powerful gas and diesel engines, and they have the least efficiency of all vehicles on the market. Yet...this is what everyone wants. I highly doubt Duracell-powered Ford F-150's and Chevy 2500's are going to be a smooth and successful transition.
Fear not, though. If the left can take the reins of the country, they will quickly tax the oil industry to the point of unaffordability, while simultaneously incentivizing EVs as much as possible. Once consumers are forced into EV's, they will declare climate victory, and then eliminate all incenitives, and raise the price of electricity to the point where it is not any cheaper to operate an EV than an ICE vehicle, and we'll be back to where we are right now. Furthermore, the climate isn't going to change whatsoever...that EV's can somehow cool the planet is a giant lie spread in order to make a new generation of oligarchs...
More torque, less parts, less maintenance, faster, cleaner sounds like a better mousetrap to me.
As for climate change it is the overwhelming consensus of science. We are free to deny it or politicize it of course but it doesn't change the science.
As for climate change it is the overwhelming consensus of science. We are free to deny it or politicize it of course but it doesn't change the science.
There is not one production EV truck with 1000lb-ft of torque.
Modern vehicles really don't have a lot of engine maintenance or repairs. Its mostly ball joints, bushings, tie rods, brakes...all of which EVs have.
What good is a fast EV that only goes 200 miles?
I absolutely agree the climate is changing. But I vehemently disagree humans can do anything to alter its course...that's 100% smoke and mirrors designed to enrichen a few.
I would agree that the ICE compared to today's EVs have an advantage in many areas. In 10 years will those advantages still exist? That advantage has been shrinking very fast and EVs are getting better every day so I don't think there is much question on the better mousetrap.
As for humans altering climate I am no climatologist so like in all things where I have little expertise I rely on the expertise of those who study these things for a living. NASA and every other scientific organization in the world concludes that we are impacting climate change by burning fossil fuels. I really wish it wasn't the case but who am I to tell them they are wrong?
I have little expertise on my tractor so I come here and rely on the experts.
That's all, it is not political for me just a reliance on science.
I’ve been reading this thread slightly amused, but mostly concerned. Amidst the political banter, there have been several good points brought out. I recently purchased my second tractor in my lifetime that happened to be a Kubota. I already had a small 24HP and needed something with more well everything. TBH, a new Kubota was last on my list when I started looking. I really thought I was going to buy a Mahindra or a new Massey purely for the lack of DPF. I couldn’t find a Massey dealer that was closer than 2 hours away. When I did call them, they wouldn’t have anything that I wanted till late Spring. So, with them out, I went to look at Mahindra. I was drawn in to the marketing for the Mahindra. Seemed like more tractor and features for the money over Orange or Green. But man, when I got on the thing (2638) at the dealer, nothing worked like it should. Loader was jerky and couldn’t lift the front tires off the ground. I couldn’t shift it from High range to Low range without all sorts of monkey motions fiddling with the brake and gently tapping the Hydro pedals forward and back until it clunked into gear. I realize all this could probably be sorted out in their shop adjusting and whatnot, but I was buying that day and didn’t feel comfortable. Then, I drove a couple Kubotas and what a difference. Everything just felt like quality. Loader was fast and smooth. Not a big fan of treadle pedal, but can get used to it. Anyway, I ended up buying orange despite my concern about DPF. I figured it was just the way things were going and soon everyone will be in the same pool. A couple people mentioned that they think T4 will be rolled back. How do you see this happening? Sorry for all the rambling, but the idea that I just potentially bought a Betamax tractor kind of concerns me. If T4 was rolled back in the next few years, why should I be bound to maintain my DPF while everyone with a (say 2022 model) gets to enjoy more accessible engine compartments and no regens? Shouldn’t I be able to roll back as well?
I wouldn't bet on that! When you do a system analysis on it you find that just having all electric cars will require a large increase in power generation to charge the batteries. Now the greenies won't let you use nuclear derived power and they want to tear out our hydropower dams in the NW, so how are you going to generate the power required? I guess we could drive at night and use solar power to recharge in the day. But that will only work in certain locations at certain times of the year. God forbid, we may yet have a use for coal and natural gas for power generation! And what about commercial aircraft? I'm afraid "heat engines" are here to stay for while.
By the way we are a long way off from the original post so I will sign off on this thread.
Adios!
I just want one of those things like the Jetsons had where you could push a button and it would spit out a cooked meal.
I push my wife's buttons all the time but I think hers are set on fight instead of cook.
I push my wife's buttons all the time but I think hers are set on fight instead of cook.
It is far more efficient to use one huge power generation station, whether nuclear, hydro or oil or other, versus millions of inefficient tiny power sources, the ICE in your car. It takes the same energy to run your car from point A to B regardless of the energy source. The difference is in the source itself and efficiency of the engine. Gas or diesel engines are very inefficient in converting the energy potential of fuel with the best around 25%. Electric motors are much more efficient and a large plant generating electricity is far more efficient than a million little power plants.
Anyway getting back to the topic I am sure the new tractors are great and it seems their owners love them but none of us with earlier versions will be adding the new system. I doubt there is much of an after market demand.
Anyway getting back to the topic I am sure the new tractors are great and it seems their owners love them but none of us with earlier versions will be adding the new system. I doubt there is much of an after market demand.
I think the biggest reason there is no after market is that if you don't have it you don't want it. I wouldn't take it if it was free and a simple plug and play.
But.......It's not by a long shot and never will be either.
You cannot take a mechanically injected diesel and refit it with advanced emissions hardware because the 'front end' is the emissions control. IOW, has to have an ECU.
coachgeo
Well-known member
Equipment
L225 w/woods Few Mowers & Back Blade, D722 in Motorcycle (Triumph Tiger), LMTV
about 5 pages of post removed from this thread cause they got off topic of thread and ... well.... belong in off topic (of tractors)
they are at below thread now
https://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45001
they are at below thread now
https://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45001
Works for me. This is about discussing / dissecting T4 final tractors and engines and their impact on end users as well as resale value down the road.