Hydraulic outlets on B2601 for log splitter

[PaulL]

I mostly split firewood with a splitting axe. But every year I get a few knotty pieces that are hard. I saw recently an inexpensive (and therefore probably not very good) log splitter that is sized about right for a B2601 (ignoring the fact that it seems to have poor information provided about it, 11gpm max probably means B01 sized) https://www.topmaq.co.nz/14ton-tractor-driven-log-splitter-fata2610

I have no rear remotes, and I'm looking to see what I'd need to add to the tractor to run something like this. My best guess is that I need either a single set of rear remotes, or that I need to make a loop in the power beyond from my FEL that I can plug the splitter into. My brief research suggests that rear remotes are actually difficult unless I get a set that are capable of constant flow....but maybe that's just a double acting remote with detent?

What do people think?

 

[TheOldHokie]

I mostly split firewood with a splitting axe. But every year I get a few knotty pieces that are hard. I saw recently an inexpensive (and therefore probably not very good) log splitter that is sized about right for a B2601 (ignoring the fact that it seems to have poor information provided about it, 11gpm max probably means B01 sized) https://www.topmaq.co.nz/14ton-tractor-driven-log-splitter-fata2610

I have no rear remotes, and I'm looking to see what I'd need to add to the tractor to run something like this. My best guess is that I need either a single set of rear remotes, or that I need to make a loop in the power beyond from my FEL that I can plug the splitter into. My brief research suggests that rear remotes are actually difficult unless I get a set that are capable of constant flow....but maybe that's just a double acting remote with detent?

What do people think?

You are about to be pummeled for the idea of using a 3pt log splitter. I am not going to join that debate. But I will tell you I have one that I have used for 30 years and I am more than happy.

You do not need a valve to run a splitter. All you need is two hoses and a quick coupler and you plumb it exactly like Kubota plumbs a backhoe:

1) Remove the loader power beyond hose and run a new hose from the power beyond port on the loader valve to the back of the tractor. Put the female half of a quick coupler on the end of that hose. That is the pressure out to your splitter.

2) Run a second hose from the rear of the tractor back to the power beyond port on the tractor. Put the male half of the quick coupler on the end of that hose. That is the return connection for your splitter

DONE!!!

When the splitter is not on the tractor connect those two hoses together.

When you want to connect the splitter stop the engine and disconnect the coupler. Plug the splitter inlet hose into the female coupler and the splitter return hose into rhe male coupler. Restart the engine and you are ready to split.

Dan

 

[PaulL]

A debate sounds like good fun. I'm a bit torn - the axe mostly works fine, and I suspect if I buy a cheap log splitter the rounds that the axe doesn't want to split the splitter also won't want to split.

Dad had a 3pt log splitter on his big tractor and did all his firewood with it - admittedly they used a lot more firewood than I do, and mostly he was cutting full size pine trees down then splitting it - pine splits really well. The trash trees that I recover from windfall around here are really not the same thing.

Is the problem that I should get a gas powered splitter, or people like those cone splitters (that look like a death trap), or people think the exercise of using an axe is good for you? Or do people not like firewood at all?

EDIT: OK, I see. Self powered and then you can use your tractor. Except I split right beside my wood pile, and I usually stack directly onto that pile. And the rounds I split aren't so heavy that I can't lift them, because I'm mostly splitting windfall that I find during the year. Firewood isn't a huge operation for me, it's more something I do for a couple of hours when a tree comes down. The axe is mostly fine, but I'm not getting any younger and some of the dead windfall is pretty gnarly to split with an axe.

 

[TheOldHokie]

A debate sounds like good fun. I'm a bit torn - the axe mostly works fine, and I suspect if I buy a cheap log splitter the rounds that the axe doesn't want to split the splitter also won't want to split.

Dad had a 3pt log splitter on his big tractor and did all his firewood with it - admittedly they used a lot more firewood than I do, and mostly he was cutting full size pine trees down then splitting it - pine splits really well. The trash trees that I recover from windfall around here are really not the same thing.

Is the problem that I should get a gas powered splitter, or people like those cone splitters (that look like a death trap), or people think the exercise of using an axe is good for you? Or do people not like firewood at all?

The naysayers will chime in shortly.

That splitter has a 4" cylinder just like mine. Mine will split just about anything I can get on it including gnarly forks in oak.

Dan

 

[skeets]

Sorry but your B2601 will only give you 8.3 GMP I dont think it would be enough.

TractorData.com Kubota B2601 tractor information

www.tractordata.com

 

[TheOldHokie]

Sorry but your B2601 will only give you 8.3 GMP I dont think it would be enough.

TractorData.com Kubota B2601 tractor information

www.tractordata.com

Actually at 2800 engine RPM the B2601 implement pump produces 5.2 GPM @ 2000 PSI

The splitter he is considering will produce 12+ tons of force and the full 24" stroke cycle time will be roughly 30 seconds. Pretty slow but more powerful and faster than I can manage with a maul.

Dan

 

[PaulL]

I think the 8.3GPM includes the power steering pump. No idea why that's a good way to describe tractor specifications, but it's what they all do.

I'm not a fan of small petrol motors, particularly of the cheap Chinesium variety that I'd be looking at. A splitter with a good Honda motor would probably be fine, but that's very substantially more money than I'm willing to spend for amount of use I'd get. And whilst I can rent one, I can pretty much buy a trailer load of firewood for about the price of renting a splitter for a day.

Horses for courses.

 

[PaulL]

You are about to be pummeled for the idea of using a 3pt log splitter. I am not going to join that debate. But I will tell you I have one that I have used for 30 years and I am more than happy.

You do not need a valve to run a splitter. All you need is two hoses and a quick coupler and you plumb it exactly like Kubota plumbs a backhoe:

1) Remove the loader power beyond hose and run a new hose from the power beyond port on the loader valve to the back of the tractor. Put the female half of a quick coupler on the end of that hose. That is the pressure out to your splitter.

2) Run a second hose from the rear of the tractor back to the power beyond port on the tractor. Put the male half of the quick coupler on the end of that hose. That is the return connection for your splitter

DONE!!!

When the splitter is not on the tractor connect those two hoses together.

When you want to connect the splitter stop the engine and disconnect the coupler. Plug the splitter inlet hose into the female coupler and the splitter return hose into rhe male coupler. Restart the engine and you are ready to split.

Dan

A question for understanding here.

The power beyond valve is also the tank return for the loader? Or the two are separate?

Seems to me that when the splitter is connected, whilst the splitter isn't moving/operating, it's dead heading the hydraulics? But that can't be right, because by that logic when I'm not using the loader it's dead heading the hydraulics, and that isn't true.

Seems my mental model of what's going on (mostly from seeing posts from you) is not correct.

The flow comes from the pump, goes to the loader. If the loader is being used, the flow goes into the loader, through the cylinders, back into the tank. If the loader isn't being used, then the flow goes into the loader block, isn't used, out the power beyond to the next implement, usually the 3ph. If that's not being used, it flows into the tank?

So when I put the splitter in the circuit, the flow goes to the loader, nothing being used there, then flows to the splitter. But if it's not being used by the splitter, how does the flow bypass it? There's only one hose.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Looks like OP is in NZ . I'm in Canada and can buy a standalone 22T splitter for $1250 CDN.
That may not be much more than the 3PH he's looking at ( $ conversion ? ).

One BIG benefit of standalone is your tractor is immediately available for other jobs.

It's best to write down on paper the 'pros and cons'. Thinking isn't as good as SEEING it on paper !!

 

[TheOldHokie]

A question for understanding here.

The power beyond valve is also the tank return for the loader? Or the two are separate?

Seems to me that when the splitter is connected, whilst the splitter isn't moving/operating, it's dead heading the hydraulics? But that can't be right, because by that logic when I'm not using the loader it's dead heading the hydraulics, and that isn't true.

Seems my mental model of what's going on (mostly from seeing posts from you) is not correct.

The flow comes from the pump, goes to the loader. If the loader is being used, the flow goes into the loader, through the cylinders, back into the tank. If the loader isn't being used, then the flow goes into the loader block, isn't used, out the power beyond to the next implement, usually the 3ph. If that's not being used, it flows into the tank?

So when I put the splitter in the circuit, the flow goes to the loader, nothing being used there, then flows to the splitter. But if it's not being used by the splitter, how does the flow bypass it? There's only one hose.

A 3pt log splitter has a double acting directional control valve with IN and OUT ports just like the loader valve. In an open center system when the log splitter is not in use flow goes straight through the splitter valve and on to the 3pt and then to tank.

Dan

 

[John D 2]

Yes, it will run it, but that doesn't mean that it would be the most efficient way of splitting wood.

If it were me, I would buy one that would run under its own power and just use the tractor to pull it where I needed it to go.
The wood splitter would be stronger, the splitter cycle times would be faster, and you wouldn't be having to hear your tractor roaring at full rpm.
Not to mention the hours you're putting on your tractor.

 

[PaulL]

Yes, it will run it, but that doesn't mean that it would be the most efficient way of splitting wood.

If it were me, I would buy one that would run under its own power and just use the tractor to pull it where I needed it to go.
The wood splitter would be stronger, the splitter cycle times would be faster, and you wouldn't be having to hear your tractor roaring at full rpm.
Not to mention the hours you're putting on your tractor.

I like using my tractor, and I'll never put enough hours on it for it to wear out no matter how hard I try. I do about 100-150 hours a year. Absolute worst case I wear it out in about 20 years and have to explain to the financial controller that I need a newer one.

As I noted above, this will be very occasional use for me. Occasional use means don't spend much money. A self powered one that I spend not much money on will have a Chinesium motor. I have a water blaster with a Chinesium motor and I hate it, so I never use it. I could arguably spend twice to three times as much and get one with a good Honda motor, but that's more money than I'm willing to spend on an occasional implement. I also am very limited in storage space, and don't really like maintaining small petrol engines.

I understand that for many people your advice would make sense. I don't think it fits my uses.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I like using my tractor, and I'll never put enough hours on it for it to wear out no matter how hard I try. I do about 100-150 hours a year. Absolute worst case I wear it out in about 20 years and have to explain to the financial controller that I need a newer one.

As I noted above, this will be very occasional use for me. Occasional use means don't spend much money. A self powered one that I spend not much money on will have a Chinesium motor. I have a water blaster with a Chinesium motor and I hate it, so I never use it. I could arguably spend twice to three times as much and get one with a good Honda motor, but that's more money than I'm willing to spend on an occasional implement. I also am very limited in storage space, and don't really like maintaining small petrol engines.

I understand that for many people your advice would make sense. I don't think it fits my uses.

I warned you this was coming.

I have a 3pt logsplitter I purchased almost 30 years ago (Central Tractor - $375). In those 30 years the only related expense has been two new hoses. I find it both convenient and more than adequate for my 2/3/4 cords per year use. The tractor is none the worse for the run time spent powering the splitter. Its just another 3pt tractor implement like a mower, stump grinder, chipper, tiller, etc. all of which could be replaced with single purpose machines.

Dan

 

[PaulL]

Its just another 3pt tractor implement like a mower, stump grinder, chipper, tiller, etc. all of which could be replaced with single purpose machines.

Exactly. I have a 3pt chipper too. I could buy one with a small petrol motor instead. I didn't. I'm sure all the guys who use their tractor as a snowblower could buy a walk behind snowblower. In fact, most of my hours I do mowing, and I could obviously buy a dedicated mower instead.

One of the points in buying a tractor was to replace all those things and have a single machine that does most of my tasks.

I do however admit to often suggesting that someone buy a used mini ex instead of a backhoe, for the same reason. Of course, I can borrow Dad's (now Mum's) mini ex, and it's nice to have the tractor free to do things whilst I dig trenches. Horses for courses. I'm sure using a backhoe would also put lots of hours on a tractor.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

OK, I'll offer a 3rd choice....

hmmm ..'very occasional use'.

Perhaps RENT a gas powered splitter ? Won't take up space 365 days of the year, ZERO maintenance, frees up tractor, commits you to DOING the splitting THAT day, stronger, faster than 3PT version.ZERO $$ mods to tractor. As 'homework', find out the cost to rent a splitter for one day, divide into cost of 3PT splitter(and hoses,etc). You might get several YEARS of splitting by renting.If setup right, 3 guys can split a LOT of wood in a day. That's splitting NOT stacking,as you go. You want to feed the beast all the time.

FYI I've replaced Honda engines for their price of their carb with Chinesium engines and never had a problem. Keep oil in them, clean the air filter, stab in fuel, run dry or drain carb bowl. Zero issues. These were Princess Auto branded engines,made somewhere in China.

 

[PaulL]

@TheOldHokie: my splitter should arrive tomorrow, and when it does I will take the hoses off it, and the power beyond hose off my loader, and go to the hydraulic hose man to get appropriate changes.

The splitter looks like it comes with two male ends, I can't see from the pictures exactly what sort, but probably pioneer.

My B2601 unfortunately (or fortunately for usage) has the loader valve under the seat. Ergonomically better, but means it actually has a hard line from the power beyond port to the 3ph input.

I think what I need to do is:
1. Take the hoses off the splitter
2. Take the hard line off, detaching from the 3ph port and the power beyond port
3. Take them all to the hydraulic man, and ask him to make changes for me

I think the changes are:
a. Keep one splitter hose end as-is, assuming it's a male pioneer. This will be the input pressure line from the power beyond on the loader
b. Replace one splitter hose end with a female pioneer. This will be the return from the splitter going back to the 3ph input
c. Make a new flexible hose with the correct attachment to connect to the power beyond port on the loader (match the hard line that I take in), and with a female pioneer on the other end. This is my power beyond / pressure line coming from the loader. This needs to be long enough to let me connect the splitter to it, and short enough that when the splitter isn't connected the loop doesn't drag
d. Make a new flexible hose with the correct attachment to connect to the port on the 3ph (match the hard line that I take in), long enough to connect the splitter, short enough not to drag when the splitter isn't connected

Connect all that up, and put the hard line somewhere safe where I can find it again one day.

Does that sound right? Will the hydraulic place have an appropriate fitting to connect to the ports on the tractor - are they reasonably standard or am I going to need special Kubota parts?

I'm assuming the splitter will come with hydraulic fluid in it. I'm assuming since it comes from China that'll be cheap/crappy hydraulic fluid. Will that unreasonably contaminate my UDT, or is that not something people care about? I'm assuming people share implements all the time, and whenever you do that your hydraulic fluid mixes with whatever your neighbour uses? Which makes me wonder a bit about this whole story of having to use Kubota fluids in your tractor......but that's a question for another day.

 

[TheOldHokie]

@TheOldHokie: my splitter should arrive tomorrow, and when it does I will take the hoses off it, and the power beyond hose off my loader, and go to the hydraulic hose man to get appropriate changes.

The splitter looks like it comes with two male ends, I can't see from the pictures exactly what sort, but probably pioneer.

My B2601 unfortunately (or fortunately for usage) has the loader valve under the seat. Ergonomically better, but means it actually has a hard line from the power beyond port to the 3ph input.

I think what I need to do is:
1. Take the hoses off the splitter
2. Take the hard line off, detaching from the 3ph port and the power beyond port
3. Take them all to the hydraulic man, and ask him to make changes for me

I think the changes are:
a. Keep one splitter hose end as-is, assuming it's a male pioneer. This will be the input pressure line from the power beyond on the loader
b. Replace one splitter hose end with a female pioneer. This will be the return from the splitter going back to the 3ph input
c. Make a new flexible hose with the correct attachment to connect to the power beyond port on the loader (match the hard line that I take in), and with a female pioneer on the other end. This is my power beyond / pressure line coming from the loader. This needs to be long enough to let me connect the splitter to it, and short enough that when the splitter isn't connected the loop doesn't drag
d. Make a new flexible hose with the correct attachment to connect to the port on the 3ph (match the hard line that I take in), long enough to connect the splitter, short enough not to drag when the splitter isn't connected

Connect all that up, and put the hard line somewhere safe where I can find it again one day.

Does that sound right? Will the hydraulic place have an appropriate fitting to connect to the ports on the tractor - are they reasonably standard or am I going to need special Kubota parts?

I'm assuming the splitter will come with hydraulic fluid in it. I'm assuming since it comes from China that'll be cheap/crappy hydraulic fluid. Will that unreasonably contaminate my UDT, or is that not something people care about? I'm assuming people share implements all the time, and whenever you do that your hydraulic fluid mixes with whatever your neighbour uses? Which makes me wonder a bit about this whole story of having to use Kubota fluids in your tractor......but that's a question for another day.

That is the circuit you want

I would plumb outlets just like a backhoe. Mount the female quick connect on a rear bracket bolted to the frame or sheet metal and make the return hose long enough to loop around to it when the splitter is not connected. Pictire below is from the backhoe manual. Just use hoses in place of those cudtom made pipes.

The power beyond pipe you are removing has BSPP banjos on the ends. Just remove the banjo bolts and reuse them to put one of these on each port. If you were in the US I would reccomend male JIC threads and hoses with female JIC swivels. That may not be common in your part of the wotld but the hose shop should be able to fix you up. They may be able to make hises with BSPP banjo ends which are not common here.

Personally I would not worry about the oil but if it bothers you once your plumbed up remove the rod end hode at the splitter valve and extend the cylinder one time. That will pump the old oil out tof the disconnected hose. Reconnect the and retract the cylinder and you are good to go.

View attachment 142507

 

[PaulL]

Very nice thank you, that all makes sense.

I figured I wouldn't worry about the oil, I'm close to a service on my tractor anyway and will replace the fluids. Just amusing to me all the debates on here about how you have to use SUDT in your machine, but as soon as you hook up an attachment your oil is going to get mixed in with whatever is in that attachment.

I use UDT in my tractor anyway, as that's what Kubota sell in NZ. Seems that SUDT is really only for cold climates, UDT is fine if you're not going below freezing.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Very nice thank you, that all makes sense.

I figured I wouldn't worry about the oil, I'm close to a service on my tractor anyway and will replace the fluids. Just amusing to me all the debates on here about how you have to use SUDT in your machine, but as soon as you hook up an attachment your oil is going to get mixed in with whatever is in that attachment.

I use UDT in my tractor anyway, as that's what Kubota sell in NZ. Seems that SUDT is really only for cold climates, UDT is fine if you're not going below freezing.

I wonder what the UDT you get in NZ actually is. They dont sell SUDT in Canada and I am pretty sure it does get well beliw freezing there

Is it the same UDT formulation as sold in the US or is it the SUDT formulation with a different label? Its not like they cant find companies in NZ capable of formulating SUDT.

Is Kubota in NZ any more forthcoming than Kubota USA on the actual specifications?

Dan

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Up here, north of the 49th, Kubota sells 'Premium UDT' . Was told it is SUDT.
1L $9
5L $42
19L $154