hydraulic issues BX23

Tractor Gal

Active member

Equipment
BX23D MLB
Oct 30, 2020
413
91
28
NC
It's always something, eh?! New one today, however. This is a BX23 2004 LMB, bought in October as a "used" tractor. With the weather changes, I haven't had a chance to use it too much but have done a few things. This is the first diesel and hydraulic tractor for me, so I'm quite unfamiliar.

When it arrived, I changed all the filters, fluids, had to replace the hydraulic steering cylinder and put in new inner/outer tie rods at the same time. Things seemed pretty good...a few hydraulic leaks that I continue to chase down but nothing major.

Upon the last use, I didn't really notice any problems. I had used the front loader to haul some firewood into the garage and had tried to use the backhoe a bit, but the soil was too wet. Today, with the beautiful weather, the plan was to go out and enjoy. I added transmission fluid since there are a few leaks. So much for that. Tractor started right up, but as I tried to lift the mm mower, it would not respond. Then, I tried to lift the front loader, it did lift. BUT, when I tried to lower it by pushing up on the joystick, it wanted to go up. I cannot get it to go down.

My first thought was that maybe I had added too much fluid. It's hard to read the dipstick since the fluid is almost transparent but I did see that it was overfilled. So, I drained some of the fluid, hoping that would correct the problem. No change.

The only other thing is that after the last use, I tried to work on getting the steel pins that hold the mower wheels out of the mower. They will not go up or down to adjust the height. There are no wheels currently on the mower. After using PB Blaster, WD, etc., I had banged around trying to get one of them out. It had gone down but now it is almost to the ground causing a problem of getting caught on something. I tried to use a hammer and pound on the bottom of the steel wheel holder. I had lifted the mower as high as possible and then had put a wooden block between the top of the mower and the tractor to give a solid hold so when I hit from the bottom, the mower wouldn't move upward. I wouldn't think I would've created any problems there but who knows? Since the loader is having problems too, I doubt that there is anything with the mower lift.

I've tried to find troubleshooting info but can't seem to find anything pertinent. I know there's a relief valve somewhere but all I know is that there is one. If anyone can chime in with ideas, I'd surely like to hear from you! If it's something simple, I can still enjoy some of the day!
 

GreensvilleJay

Well-known member

Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
Apr 2, 2019
9,908
4,062
113
Greensville,Ontario,Canada
I don't have a MMM on my BX23S but.. I've seen here that it is possible to mechanically bid up the MMM 'mechanism',some bracket connected to the 3PH , I think......

As for the hydraulics , you should have ZERO leaks ! ANY leak WILL cause a problem,sooner or later... Think of hyrdaulic oil like your blood. YOU wouldn't last too long squirting 'red' out here and there, would you ??!!
 

Tractor Gal

Active member

Equipment
BX23D MLB
Oct 30, 2020
413
91
28
NC
I don't have a MMM on my BX23S but.. I've seen here that it is possible to mechanically bid up the MMM 'mechanism',some bracket connected to the 3PH , I think......

As for the hydraulics , you should have ZERO leaks ! ANY leak WILL cause a problem,sooner or later... Think of hyrdaulic oil like your blood. YOU wouldn't last too long squirting 'red' out here and there, would you ??!!
Squirting, no, of course not. This is not squirting. Yes, I know it's not good but the way this thing is designed, it's not easy to find a slow drip. I'll keep looking. :) Thanks.
 

dirtydeed

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
B2650 BH77, U27-4R2, BX23TLBM, box blade, rear blade, flail mower, Stump Grinder
Dec 8, 2017
2,886
3,228
113
Wind Gap, PA
I would first try to get the loader working correctly. With the engine off, move the loader control in all directions several times (you can just move it in a circular direction) to make sure there is no pressure in any circuit. Then disconnect all 4 hydraulic lines from the loader valve and reconnect them. Make sure that they are in the correct position (usually color coded) and are fully seated. If the backhoe is attached, move both control sticks in a circular pattern (again, making sure that any pressure is bled). Disconnect, then reconnect the lines to/from the backhoe. Make sure the connections seat fully.

Regarding the mower deck, they can bind a bit mechanically, but it would appear that you've already tried that by banging on the linkage. There are two locking pons that take a quarter turn to disengage the locks so that the deck can move down. I suppose the other thing that could be suspect would be the three point system and possibly the feedback rod adjustment.

Engine off, disconnect the backhoe circuit hydraulic lines after relieving any pressure on the system. Connect the return line back to the tractor to close the hydraulic loop (you are removing the hydraulic circuit to the back hoe).

Start the engine.
Try raising the 3 pt hitch all the way to top. Try opening the three point drop rate control valve and set the mower deck dial to zero. Both of these should be found under the front of the seat near the floor. Now see if the mower deck will drop/raise.

Give that a whirl.
 

Henro

Well-known member

Equipment
B2910, BX2200, KX41-2V mini Ex.
May 24, 2019
5,152
2,367
113
North of Pittsburgh PA
I believe the MMM is operated along with the 3PH. Never checked mine to see how it is mechanically connected, but I am sure it is. Is the 3PH also not moving upward?

I do not have any real input to add to the above suggestions, but think verifying the 3PH is operating correctly/not operating correctly could be useful information.

Just another thought. If you put the loader into float position, will it lower? If not it might point to a control valve related issue.
 

Tractor Gal

Active member

Equipment
BX23D MLB
Oct 30, 2020
413
91
28
NC
OK, dirtydeed and Henro, I will give those suggestions a whirl tomorrow.
One thing...with the bh attached, the 3 pt hitch is not operational. The bh was attached with the hitch arms above the platform of the bh so they will not move. I don't know why it was done this way but that's the way it is.

I did already release the 4 hoses as you mentioned. Strangely, I am unable to re-attach the bottom one...it is yellow. It will go over the receiver but it will not snap in place. I push as hard as I can and it will not attach. To check out the fitting, I attached it to the one above (blue one) and it worked just fine so it's not the fitting, I don't think. It didn't seem to be quite as snug when I pulled them but it was a little dark (in the garage) and I wasn't really looking for that. I do not know where it travels to the loader so that I can release it there and see if there is extra pressure. I see the red and blue hoses but no yellow or white (?)

I will try to look under the tractor between it and the mower deck to see if anything is obviously wrong...it would have to be obvious for me to know!

In the morning, I have a streaming on-line equine lameness session provided by the vet, so it will be a while before I can get to this. Once I check out more and do what was suggested, I'll report back. Thanks for taking time to try to help. And, I hope one of those suggestions helps!

TG
 

dirtydeed

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
B2650 BH77, U27-4R2, BX23TLBM, box blade, rear blade, flail mower, Stump Grinder
Dec 8, 2017
2,886
3,228
113
Wind Gap, PA
ok, sometimes you can take a steel punch to whack the center plug in the fitting to relieve pressure. If not, just crack open the offending fitting using the appropriate wrenches. You'll likely get a little bit of hydraulic oil to escape the line. Just be careful when doing it as it could be under pressure.

Retighten the fittings you loosened and try to reconnect them. They should snap right into place. If not, chances are that you have a bad fitting that needs to be replaced.

I can't remember off hand what order the color coded lines go on the loader valve as I traded that machine several years ago. I'll look to see if I have an old pic to tell.
 

Henro

Well-known member

Equipment
B2910, BX2200, KX41-2V mini Ex.
May 24, 2019
5,152
2,367
113
North of Pittsburgh PA
ok, sometimes you can take a steel punch to whack the center plug in the fitting to relieve pressure. If not, just crack open the offending fitting using the appropriate wrenches. You'll likely get a little bit of hydraulic oil to escape the line. Just be careful when doing it as it could be under pressure.

Retighten the fittings you loosened and try to reconnect them. They should snap right into place. If not, chances are that you have a bad fitting that needs to be replaced.

I can't remember off hand what order the color coded lines go on the loader valve as I traded that machine several years ago. I'll look to see if I have an old pic to tell.
I agree, but prefer to use something softer than steel to hit the center plug with. I use a wooden dowel rod (or a piece of broom handle), or a block of wood if the fitting is a male type. Just do not want to risk scratching the plug. (A rachet handle with a rag over the end works for me too on female connectors...)
 

dirtydeed

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
B2650 BH77, U27-4R2, BX23TLBM, box blade, rear blade, flail mower, Stump Grinder
Dec 8, 2017
2,886
3,228
113
Wind Gap, PA
just checked kubota books and it looks like the order for the lines (top port to bottom port) are:

White
Blue
Red
Yellow

see attached pdf
 

Attachments

Henro

Well-known member

Equipment
B2910, BX2200, KX41-2V mini Ex.
May 24, 2019
5,152
2,367
113
North of Pittsburgh PA
just checked kubota books and it looks like the order for the lines (top port to bottom port) are:

White
Blue
Red
Yellow

see attached pdf
I learn something new at least once per day. This time it was that colors of dust protectors are called out on the Kubota parts diagrams!

Now if I can just remember this tomorrow... :LOL:
 

North Idaho Wolfman

Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
Jun 9, 2013
28,690
5,115
113
Sandpoint, ID
To all she has a BX23D or in her case BX MLB or simply called a BX23.
It's not the newer BX23S, they are completely different tractors and loaders.

So when giving advice and thing to check make sure you are referencing the older model.


It sounds like you have a bad Quick disconnect or linkage issue (leaning more to this) in the loader joystick control..

Did the mower deck move before all of this happened?

Does the joystick move freely, normally, and not loosely to all positions?
 

Tractor Gal

Active member

Equipment
BX23D MLB
Oct 30, 2020
413
91
28
NC
I learn something new at least once per day. This time it was that colors of dust protectors are called out on the Kubota parts diagrams!

Now if I can just remember this tomorrow... :LOL:
OK...first and fortunately, these hoses have the color markers on both sides so it's not likely that I would make that mistake. Not likely, but then again...:)

I still can't get the yellow hose to snap into place so before I can do anything else, I've got to give this some more thought. The red hose will fit onto the yellow port...just to check the yellow male connector. The yellow hose, however, will not fit onto the red male connector. It seems to have too much pressure.

So, I'm going to release the yellow female connector a bit to try to get rid of the pressure, if any. Then, I may know if it's the connector or the pressure.

I didn't see anything else amiss yet but am still looking. It's quite nippy in the garage due to the overnight cold so time spent is not continuous.

Thanks for all the help. If anything else comes to your mind, I'm thrilled to know. I'll get back at this another day. Monday is already booked, and most of Tuesday as well. But as soon as I know somethin or am totally disgusted, I'll chime in. :)

TG
 

Tractor Gal

Active member

Equipment
BX23D MLB
Oct 30, 2020
413
91
28
NC
To all she has a BX23D or in her case BX MLB or simply called a BX23.
It's not the newer BX23S, they are completely different tractors and loaders.

So when giving advice and thing to check make sure you are referencing the older model.


It sounds like you have a bad Quick disconnect or linkage issue (leaning more to this) in the loader joystick control..

Did the mower deck move before all of this happened?

Does the joystick move freely, normally, and not loosely to all positions?
Just saw your post, North Idaho Wolfman...and you are so correct...NOT a BX23S. Glad to get that highlighted.

The mower deck has had no issues. When I first got the tractor, I used the mower to actually mow and it worked fine. Since then, I have only raised and lowered it and there were no issues there.

The joystick seemed to be just fine in its "feel." I was just so shocked that when I pushed up to lower the loader, it kept going up! Pushing down, it also went up. The tilting worked fine. This morning, the loader had descended to the floor which, in this case, I was glad!

As mentioned above, I am going to look into the quick disconnect issue. I have never removed these hoses and there has been a slow hydraulic fluid drip under the engine
where there are the metal connectors for the two sides of the hoses. I can hardly get a wrench on those but they seem to be extremely tight...not good to be that tight but I can't release them. Anyway, if this bottom hose (yellow) has not been fully connected, would the loader have worked properly and/or could this be the source of the slow drip?

When you say linkage issue in the joystick control, is that a big issue? These books for repairs are pretty slim on info...at least to me.

Thanks for the ideas. I'll get back to you after more investigation.

TG
 

North Idaho Wolfman

Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
Jun 9, 2013
28,690
5,115
113
Sandpoint, ID
A bad quick disconnect or linkage issue can both cause erratic loader reactions.
Address the Quick disconnect first.

To test if the disconnect is the issue, swap the dump lines (2) for the lift lines (2) and see if the erratic operation follows it from lift to dump.
 

Tractor Gal

Active member

Equipment
BX23D MLB
Oct 30, 2020
413
91
28
NC
A bad quick disconnect or linkage issue can both cause erratic loader reactions.
Address the Quick disconnect first.

To test if the disconnect is the issue, swap the dump lines (2) for the lift lines (2) and see if the erratic operation follows it from lift to dump.
Another question...how is the mower not lifting connected to the erratic loader movements?

TG
 

North Idaho Wolfman

Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
Jun 9, 2013
28,690
5,115
113
Sandpoint, ID
The three point, which lifts the deck is on the end of the hydraulic loop that runs everything, so an issue with the loader valve can cause issues with everything else down the line.
It may or may not be a connected issue.
 

Tractor Gal

Active member

Equipment
BX23D MLB
Oct 30, 2020
413
91
28
NC
The three point, which lifts the deck is on the end of the hydraulic loop that runs everything, so an issue with the loader valve can cause issues with everything else down the line.
It may or may not be a connected issue.
OK...more info. I just went out again and was able to depress the pin in the yellow female connector at the joystick for loader control. Got a squirt of fluid so I relieved the pressure and tried to re-attach. This time, I was able to attach the yellow hose. I started the tractor, let it run briefly and then tried to lift the mower. No response. Then, I lifted the loader slightly...it responded, but I could not lower it. I should've re-checked the yellow hose for pressure and will do so again now and report back shortly.

TG
 

Tractor Gal

Active member

Equipment
BX23D MLB
Oct 30, 2020
413
91
28
NC
OK...more info. I just went out again and was able to depress the pin in the yellow female connector at the joystick for loader control. Got a squirt of fluid so I relieved the pressure and tried to re-attach. This time, I was able to attach the yellow hose. I started the tractor, let it run briefly and then tried to lift the mower. No response. Then, I lifted the loader slightly...it responded, but I could not lower it. I should've re-checked the yellow hose for pressure and will do so again now and report back shortly.

TG
Unable to depress pin to release pressure. I suppose the pressure builds up and takes time to release with the ideal that implements do not lower on their own. But, otoh, that hose would not re-attach and I think it should be able to, so I'm puzzled.

TG
 

dirtydeed

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
B2650 BH77, U27-4R2, BX23TLBM, box blade, rear blade, flail mower, Stump Grinder
Dec 8, 2017
2,886
3,228
113
Wind Gap, PA
To all she has a BX23D or in her case BX MLB or simply called a BX23.
It's not the newer BX23S, they are completely different tractors and loaders.

So when giving advice and thing to check make sure you are referencing the older model.


It sounds like you have a bad Quick disconnect or linkage issue (leaning more to this) in the loader joystick control..

Did the mower deck move before all of this happened?

Does the joystick move freely, normally, and not loosely to all positions?
Wolfman, I'm well aware of that. I had the very same tractor BX23D (2006, TLBM). I specifically looked for the loader manual (LA210) for a BX23D. So, all good here.
 

North Idaho Wolfman

Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
L3450DT-GST, Woods FEL, B7100 HSD, FEL, 60" SB, 743 Bobcat with V2203, and more
Jun 9, 2013
28,690
5,115
113
Sandpoint, ID
You need to do as I said and swap lift for curl to find out if it's an issue with the valve or disconnect or if it's an issue with the cylinder itself.
All signs are pointing to a valve issue.