Was working with my HST tractor today and all was going fine until I was stuck in reverse. Pedal was stuck in reverse and would not go into forward. Finally got the pedal to move by depressing clutch pedal and shifting into neutral. Pedal was extremely stiff. Got tractor to near level ground and found hydraulic fluid sight glass was white. Added about 1/2 gal of fluid bringing fluid level into the sight glass. Pedal was much less stiff but tractor had no torque regardless of gear and engine RPM. Crawled the tractor onto trailer in high gear at very slow speed. Less than 250 hours on the tractor. No indication of trouble until today. Where does all that fluid go in a "closed" system with no indication of a leak? Seems like the hydraulic system is locked up. Clogged filter? Any suggestions?
HST Problem
- Thread starter mike243
- Start date
Mike welcome! The folks that know the most about hydraulics will need more information about your tractor to help: specific model, history, what did you mean by "white"? Milky? What you were doing with it? Any other details you can think of like loader? Does 3pt work?
North Idaho Wolfman
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Guys, Thanks for the coaching! Much appreciated. Tractor is Kubota L3200. Three point works fine as does the controls for the bucket. When I say the sight gauge was white means I could see no fluid in the sight about 1/2 gal of fluid corrected that problem however tractor was not totally level with nose down a bit. I was pushing brush on a steep hillside and crabbing across the hill, think tracing a "W" up and down to move safely across the hill. No hint of trouble till I got stuck in reverse. No pedal stiffness, no hesitation, nothing to indicate trouble. Low gear hardly moves the tractor, high gear will move the tractor about "low gear speed".
Your assistance is greatly appreciated.
Your assistance is greatly appreciated.
RCW
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Mike - gonna fire some questions at you that will help diagnosis. HST are far from my strong suit, but there are some very smart folks here.
Is the Parking brake off? Not being a smart-alec; it happens..
Does it make any unusual noises, or more "whine" when depressing the HST pedal now, or like it was prior to this problem?
Do you know the service history of the tractor...i.e. fluid/filter changes, etc.?
What type of fluid is in it, Kubota UDT, SUDT, SUDT2, or other?
Does it appear overfull on a flat surface now, after adding 2 quarts of fluid, since it wasn't level when adding, or is it still low?
Go here:
http://www.kubotabooks.com/
Under Owners Manuals, I see a WSM (Workshop Manual) for an L3200. Get that, its free.
Also, you can find Parts Diagrams for your tractor here:
https://apps.kubotausa.com/illustrated-parts/
Agree to the legal stuff, then type in your L3200, there are 3 varieties. Guessing yours is the DT or H.
The 2 resources might help you understand your problem better.
In time, linkages can corrode, get bent and bind, or the damper on the HST pedal get wonky.
If you were pushing brush at the time of the problem, my first suspicion is something might have gotten bent/twisted underneath? On the BX, the pedal is noted for binding on the shaft it rocks on since guys miss the grease fitting....
I would start to find out where the binding is happening. Is it in the linkage(s) to the HST?
.
Is the Parking brake off? Not being a smart-alec; it happens..
Does it make any unusual noises, or more "whine" when depressing the HST pedal now, or like it was prior to this problem?
Do you know the service history of the tractor...i.e. fluid/filter changes, etc.?
What type of fluid is in it, Kubota UDT, SUDT, SUDT2, or other?
Does it appear overfull on a flat surface now, after adding 2 quarts of fluid, since it wasn't level when adding, or is it still low?
Go here:
http://www.kubotabooks.com/
Under Owners Manuals, I see a WSM (Workshop Manual) for an L3200. Get that, its free.
Also, you can find Parts Diagrams for your tractor here:
https://apps.kubotausa.com/illustrated-parts/
Agree to the legal stuff, then type in your L3200, there are 3 varieties. Guessing yours is the DT or H.
The 2 resources might help you understand your problem better.
In time, linkages can corrode, get bent and bind, or the damper on the HST pedal get wonky.
If you were pushing brush at the time of the problem, my first suspicion is something might have gotten bent/twisted underneath? On the BX, the pedal is noted for binding on the shaft it rocks on since guys miss the grease fitting....
I would start to find out where the binding is happening. Is it in the linkage(s) to the HST?
.
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I rarely use the parking brake so that was off.
No unusual noises and maintenance has been done but due.
Fluid is Kubota brand.
No obstructions or bent parts. No binding that I can find. Worth looking again.
Fluid level is in overfill currently on flat surface
Thanks.
No unusual noises and maintenance has been done but due.
Fluid is Kubota brand.
No obstructions or bent parts. No binding that I can find. Worth looking again.
Fluid level is in overfill currently on flat surface
Thanks.
rbargeron
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The external HST pedal linkage is the first place to look. (see attached) With engine OFF have a helper in the seat slowly rock the pedal back and forth. Look closely at the moving parts under the right side floorboard to see if anything appears to be loose or bound up. Spray lube pivots that look dry or rusty. The damper 190 is supposed to cushion quick pedal movements.
HST's rarely fail internally but the linkage can act up. Also, if the trans fluid level is too low the unit may stop driving but adding fluid brings it back.
The HST's pump/motor circuit is technically a "closed circuit" but internal oil flow thru component clearances constantly exchanges fluid with the reservoir (the trans case).
Hopefully its something simple - good luck. Dick B
HST's rarely fail internally but the linkage can act up. Also, if the trans fluid level is too low the unit may stop driving but adding fluid brings it back.
The HST's pump/motor circuit is technically a "closed circuit" but internal oil flow thru component clearances constantly exchanges fluid with the reservoir (the trans case).
Hopefully its something simple - good luck. Dick B
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RCW
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Mike - Sorry, I'm not smart enough to post parts diagrams....I try, but can't figure it out. 
But if you go to the Kubota parts diagrams for the L3200H, select the SPEED CHANGE SHIFT FORK SHIFT LEVER, and then SPEED CONTROL PEDAL, I think you can see your linkage.
I would try to disconnect that linkage at some point, to discern if your binding on the HST side, or pedal side, if that makes sense.
The WSM should give some help here.....
It seems some guys have had a bind at the shaft into the HST case, and been able to fix with some lubrication.
Either way, a linkage problem is much better than an HST problem!
PS: Mike - rbargeron posted while I was typing. I have great respect for his knowledge. Listen to what he says!
I'm happy to see that he concurs with linkage.
But if you go to the Kubota parts diagrams for the L3200H, select the SPEED CHANGE SHIFT FORK SHIFT LEVER, and then SPEED CONTROL PEDAL, I think you can see your linkage.
I would try to disconnect that linkage at some point, to discern if your binding on the HST side, or pedal side, if that makes sense.
The WSM should give some help here.....
It seems some guys have had a bind at the shaft into the HST case, and been able to fix with some lubrication.
Either way, a linkage problem is much better than an HST problem!
PS: Mike - rbargeron posted while I was typing. I have great respect for his knowledge. Listen to what he says!
I'm happy to see that he concurs with linkage.
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Guys,
Thank you for all the inputs and suggestions. After reviewing your suggestions, I went over the tractor again this morning. Rust is not an issue however the news is not good.
The pedal travel is a separate issue from the lack of drive torque. The pedal damper cylinder cover is torn and fluid is leaking leaving the cylinder stiff. This needs to be replaced.
I pulled the hydraulic fluid filter this morning in the process lowering the fluid level to about where it was operating yesterday. The bad news is the filter had metal shavings. :-( Looks like a new transmission with less than 250 hours on the machine. Anyone have an positive possibilities?
Thank you
Mike
Thank you for all the inputs and suggestions. After reviewing your suggestions, I went over the tractor again this morning. Rust is not an issue however the news is not good.
The pedal travel is a separate issue from the lack of drive torque. The pedal damper cylinder cover is torn and fluid is leaking leaving the cylinder stiff. This needs to be replaced.
I pulled the hydraulic fluid filter this morning in the process lowering the fluid level to about where it was operating yesterday. The bad news is the filter had metal shavings. :-( Looks like a new transmission with less than 250 hours on the machine. Anyone have an positive possibilities?
Thank you
Mike
RCW
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With 250 hours, some shavings are not unheard of in certain circumstances...i.e., filter and/ or fluid not changed at 50 hours....I found a bunch in my little BX screen at 50 hours. Shavings can be a normal thing in a new casting/tractor. That's what the screens and filters are for - they're on the suction side of the HST/hydraulic systems...
Can you get us some pictures of the shavings? That will help greatly!
Did you cut the filter, or just feel/see them?
You may need 5 posts here to put pictures up. If so, just post a couple more "Test" ones to get there...
Unless your shavings are extreme, or of bronze-type color, still guessing your problem is damper.....I would defer to Dick B. on that one...I may be overstepping my expertise...but hoping for the best! Like he said, HST failure is unusual....
Can you get us some pictures of the shavings? That will help greatly!
Did you cut the filter, or just feel/see them?
You may need 5 posts here to put pictures up. If so, just post a couple more "Test" ones to get there...
Unless your shavings are extreme, or of bronze-type color, still guessing your problem is damper.....I would defer to Dick B. on that one...I may be overstepping my expertise...but hoping for the best! Like he said, HST failure is unusual....
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Jchonline
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rbargeron
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If the damper is at one extreme or the other, it affects the linkage throw, so it could prevent moving the swash plate enough off neutral to drive.
Metal shavings in the filter aren't always a fatal sign. I'd suggest trying a new damper before diving deep. As they say, hope for the best, prepare for the worst. Dick B
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Mike - you have 2 guys betting on the damper. Dick B much more experienced than me.
Dick - would you like to see pictures of shavings? Are erosions of the HST plates more bronze-colored or am I confusing it with something else?
Again, hoping for the best, but be prepared for the worst.....
RCW
Thank you for your continued assistance. Been more than 50 hours since the filter was changed. Shavings are best described as long shavings rolled up along with the usual tiny flakes. Given your comments I would describe the amount as extremely large given the number of hours on filter nor did the filter appear clogged.
Mike
Thank you for your continued assistance. Been more than 50 hours since the filter was changed. Shavings are best described as long shavings rolled up along with the usual tiny flakes. Given your comments I would describe the amount as extremely large given the number of hours on filter nor did the filter appear clogged.
Mike
None of the shavings are discolored nor was the fluid. The drive pedal is hard to work and will move with effort forward to reverse and back. Can place it in neutral with a bit of "feel". Still no torque out of the transmission.
RCW
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Sounds like no big worries on the fluid.
I don't know L3200, but probably says filter(s) at 50 hours, and filter/fluid at 200 or 400. Does it have an hydraulic filter and an HST filter?
You haven't provided a picture of your shavings.. do they look like this? This is also an L3200.. lucky when I did a SEARCH for "Shaving"...
http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24170&highlight=shaving
I'm still betting/hoping linkage. You pull the damper off and replace, as it sounds shot anyway. Get back after that. My next bet is Item #160 in Dick's parts diagram - the shaft that goes through HST housing. Several guys have had them lock up. Put some lube on that now - - both sides- - and not WD-40...WD-40 is not a lubricant. Hell, slap some PB Blaster all over it for now.. can't hurt, and your wife/significant other will love the way you smell!
I don't know L3200, but probably says filter(s) at 50 hours, and filter/fluid at 200 or 400. Does it have an hydraulic filter and an HST filter?
You haven't provided a picture of your shavings.. do they look like this? This is also an L3200.. lucky when I did a SEARCH for "Shaving"...
http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24170&highlight=shaving
I'm still betting/hoping linkage. You pull the damper off and replace, as it sounds shot anyway. Get back after that. My next bet is Item #160 in Dick's parts diagram - the shaft that goes through HST housing. Several guys have had them lock up. Put some lube on that now - - both sides- - and not WD-40...WD-40 is not a lubricant. Hell, slap some PB Blaster all over it for now.. can't hurt, and your wife/significant other will love the way you smell!
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RCW
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As far as filters, looks like you have 2. I would replace both now, if you haven't done so already.
PS - Thanks Dick B for tech schooling....!
PS - Thanks Dick B for tech schooling....!
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With that type of shavings, and a lesser amount leads me to believe something other than internal HST failure. Looks like the casting residue I found in my BX screen long ago....
Back to linkage....
Replace both filters, replace damper, lubricate the shaft through the HST, and check other joints in between/make sure they're free.
An HST is not normally rebuilt, they're replaced. Your L3200 would be many thousands of dollars.. a linkage problem is cheap. Always start with the simple/cheap stuff.....
When you're done, report back.
Dick B or other OTT guys, did I miss something that Mike should do??
Back to linkage....
Replace both filters, replace damper, lubricate the shaft through the HST, and check other joints in between/make sure they're free.
An HST is not normally rebuilt, they're replaced. Your L3200 would be many thousands of dollars.. a linkage problem is cheap. Always start with the simple/cheap stuff.....
When you're done, report back.
Dick B or other OTT guys, did I miss something that Mike should do??
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rbargeron
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I'm unclear on your meaning here - do you think the volume of debris is "extremely large" or are you saying that since it isn't enough to clog the filter it might not be so large after all?
Two possible scenarios are taking shape here - in the easy one the pedal shaft may be seizing in the walls of the clutch housing, causing a stiff pedal and over-working the damper to failure.
But in the other, the slippers in the HST pump section are damaged making the swash plate hard to move. Wear metals have destroyed the mirror-finish fits at the valve plate, allowing too much internal leakage (no drive). This one is much less common and potentially hard on the checkbook absent warranty or insurance.
Sorry to speculate about the worst possibility. Still hoping for a better outcome. Dick B
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