How good is alternate energy?
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Ethanol has the same problem. When you calculate all the energy used to grow a bushel of corn (diesel, fertilizer, electricity, etc) plus the electricity and natural gas required to distill the alcohol and blend it with gasoline, it really is a taxpayer and environmental boondoggle.
Incorrect, urban legend with that text. There is a bit of truth to it, but not in all cases. Truth about that article:
Overblown: Wind turbines don’t take more energy to build than they will ever produce - Full Fact
A post claiming wind turbines can never produce as much energy as was taken to build them is based on a selective quotation and is incorrect.
fullfact.org
NCL4701
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Logic and reality from an energy standpoint are inapplicable for many. Some of those for whom it is inapplicable, it’s about how it makes them feel. Others (as in politicians creating the alternative energy mandates) it’s about money. Knowing where they, their families, friends, and business contacts should invest to line their pockets. I would know to invest in windmills, solar panels, geothermal, and whatever associated businesses if I, or my really close buddy, was about to make that energy source mandatory. Don’t know about everywhere but know in NC power companies have requirements on what percentage of their generating capacity comes from alternative sources. I do not believe the politicians who set those requirements and their cronies haven’t gotten well off those mandates.
dirtydeed
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I came across this just the other day. I didn't write it but it was sent to me by a family member. Perhaps some points to ponder?
In case you were thinking of buying hybrid or an electric car:
Ever since the advent of electric cars, the REAL cost per mile of those things has never been discussed. All you ever heard was the mpg in terms of gasoline, with nary a mention of the cost of electricity to run it. This is the first article I've ever seen and tells the story pretty much as I expected it to.
Electricity has to be one of the least efficient ways to power things yet they're being shoved down our throats. Glad somebody finally put engineering and math to paper.
At a neighborhood BBQ I was talking to a neighbor, a BC Hydro Executive. I asked him how that renewable thing was doing. He laughed, then got serious.
If you really intend to adopt electric vehicles, he pointed out, you had to face certain realities. For example, a home charging system for a Tesla requires 75 amp service. The average house is equipped with 100 amp service. On our small street (approximately 25 homes), the electrical infrastructure would be unable to carry more than three houses with a single Tesla, each. For even half the homes to have electric vehicles, the system would be wildly over-loaded.
This is the elephant in the room with electric vehicles. Our residential infrastructure cannot bear the load. So as our genius elected officials promote this nonsense, not only are we being urged to buy these things and replace our reliable, cheap generating systems with expensive, new windmills and solar cells, but we will also have to renovate our entire delivery system! This latter "investment" will not be revealed until we're so far down this dead end road that it will be presented with an 'OOPS...!' and a shrug.
If you want to argue with a green person over cars that are eco-friendly, just read the following. Note: If you ARE a green person, read it anyway. It's enlightening.
Eric test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors and he writes, "For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine. "Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran
on the battery. So, the range including the 9-gallon gas tank and the 16 kwh battery is approximately 270 miles.
It will take you 4.5 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add 10 hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 14.5 hours. In a typical road trip your average speed (including charging time) would be 20 mph.
According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kwh of electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery. The cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned, so I looked up what I pay for electricity.
I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kwh. 16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery. $18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery. Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine that gets only 32 mpg. $3.19 per gallon divided by 32 Mpg = $0.10 per mile.
The gasoline powered car costs about $25,000 while the Volt costs $46,000 plus. So the Canadian Government wants loyal Canadians not to do the math, but simply pay twice as much for a car, that costs more than seven times as much to run, and takes three times longer to drive across the country.
~ THE PINEHURST PRESS NEWS & VIEWS ~
An Interesting Take on Electric Cars
As an engineer I love the electric vehicle technology However, I have been troubled for a longtime by the fact that the electrical energy to keep the batteries charged has to come from the grid and that means more power generation and a huge increase in the distribution infrastructure Whether generated from coal, gas, oil, wind or sun, installed generation capacity is limited. A friend sent me the following that says it very well. You should all take a look at this short article.
IF ELECTRIC CARS DO NOT USE GASOLINE, THEY WILL NOT PARTICIPATE IN PAYING A GASOLINE TAX ON EVERY GALLON THAT IS SOLD FOR AUTOMOBILES, WHICH WAS ENACTED SOME YEARS AGO TO HELP TO MAINTAIN OUR ROADS AND BRIDGES. THEY WILL USE THE ROADS, BRIDGES, TUNNELS, ETC., BUT WILL NOT PAY FOR THEIR MAINTENANCE!
An Interesting Take on Electric Cars
As an engineer I love the electric vehicle technology However, I have been troubled for a longtime by the fact that the electrical energy to keep the batteries charged has to come from the grid and that means more power generation and a huge increase in the distribution infrastructure Whether generated from coal, gas, oil, wind or sun, installed generation capacity is limited. A friend sent me the following that says it very well. You should all take a look at this short article.
IF ELECTRIC CARS DO NOT USE GASOLINE, THEY WILL NOT PARTICIPATE IN PAYING A GASOLINE TAX ON EVERY GALLON THAT IS SOLD FOR AUTOMOBILES, WHICH WAS ENACTED SOME YEARS AGO TO HELP TO MAINTAIN OUR ROADS AND BRIDGES. THEY WILL USE THE ROADS, BRIDGES, TUNNELS, ETC., BUT WILL NOT PAY FOR THEIR MAINTENANCE!
In case you were thinking of buying hybrid or an electric car:
Ever since the advent of electric cars, the REAL cost per mile of those things has never been discussed. All you ever heard was the mpg in terms of gasoline, with nary a mention of the cost of electricity to run it. This is the first article I've ever seen and tells the story pretty much as I expected it to.
Electricity has to be one of the least efficient ways to power things yet they're being shoved down our throats. Glad somebody finally put engineering and math to paper.
At a neighborhood BBQ I was talking to a neighbor, a BC Hydro Executive. I asked him how that renewable thing was doing. He laughed, then got serious.
If you really intend to adopt electric vehicles, he pointed out, you had to face certain realities. For example, a home charging system for a Tesla requires 75 amp service. The average house is equipped with 100 amp service. On our small street (approximately 25 homes), the electrical infrastructure would be unable to carry more than three houses with a single Tesla, each. For even half the homes to have electric vehicles, the system would be wildly over-loaded.
This is the elephant in the room with electric vehicles. Our residential infrastructure cannot bear the load. So as our genius elected officials promote this nonsense, not only are we being urged to buy these things and replace our reliable, cheap generating systems with expensive, new windmills and solar cells, but we will also have to renovate our entire delivery system! This latter "investment" will not be revealed until we're so far down this dead end road that it will be presented with an 'OOPS...!' and a shrug.
If you want to argue with a green person over cars that are eco-friendly, just read the following. Note: If you ARE a green person, read it anyway. It's enlightening.
Eric test drove the Chevy Volt at the invitation of General Motors and he writes, "For four days in a row, the fully charged battery lasted only 25 miles before the Volt switched to the reserve gasoline engine. "Eric calculated the car got 30 mpg including the 25 miles it ran
on the battery. So, the range including the 9-gallon gas tank and the 16 kwh battery is approximately 270 miles.
It will take you 4.5 hours to drive 270 miles at 60 mph. Then add 10 hours to charge the battery and you have a total trip time of 14.5 hours. In a typical road trip your average speed (including charging time) would be 20 mph.
According to General Motors, the Volt battery holds 16 kwh of electricity. It takes a full 10 hours to charge a drained battery. The cost for the electricity to charge the Volt is never mentioned, so I looked up what I pay for electricity.
I pay approximately (it varies with amount used and the seasons) $1.16 per kwh. 16 kwh x $1.16 per kwh = $18.56 to charge the battery. $18.56 per charge divided by 25 miles = $0.74 per mile to operate the Volt using the battery. Compare this to a similar size car with a gasoline engine that gets only 32 mpg. $3.19 per gallon divided by 32 Mpg = $0.10 per mile.
The gasoline powered car costs about $25,000 while the Volt costs $46,000 plus. So the Canadian Government wants loyal Canadians not to do the math, but simply pay twice as much for a car, that costs more than seven times as much to run, and takes three times longer to drive across the country.
I’d say it’s more misleading than ‘enlightening’ but may have been somewhat true years ago.
Tesla chargers do not require a 75amp circuit. The MAX they are rated for is 48amps on a 60amp circuit, but you can also use it on a 15amp circuit at a slower charge rate.
Where is electricity over $1/kwh?! Where I am it is under 11 cents/kwh. If you have higher peak rates you can schedule the cars to charge after peak hours.
So many people talk about how much longer it takes to drive an electric car across the country. Most people just drive to/from work and maybe a few stores each day. If you do drive very long distances so often, no, an electric car might not be for you (yet, at least). Though, using higher speed charging stations would be significantly faster than the example above and is not cost prohibitive.
If you don’t go on very long road trips frequently, what about all the time savings you would have by not stopping for gas every week or so? An electric car is charged up and ready for you every day. Plus time and cost savings of never having to do oil changes, transmission fluid changes, timing belt changes, etc.
Tesla chargers do not require a 75amp circuit. The MAX they are rated for is 48amps on a 60amp circuit, but you can also use it on a 15amp circuit at a slower charge rate.
Where is electricity over $1/kwh?! Where I am it is under 11 cents/kwh. If you have higher peak rates you can schedule the cars to charge after peak hours.
So many people talk about how much longer it takes to drive an electric car across the country. Most people just drive to/from work and maybe a few stores each day. If you do drive very long distances so often, no, an electric car might not be for you (yet, at least). Though, using higher speed charging stations would be significantly faster than the example above and is not cost prohibitive.
If you don’t go on very long road trips frequently, what about all the time savings you would have by not stopping for gas every week or so? An electric car is charged up and ready for you every day. Plus time and cost savings of never having to do oil changes, transmission fluid changes, timing belt changes, etc.
Two words for solar energy problems.
Cadmium Disulfide.
Nasty stuff that quits working and can't be recycled. Considering most high quality solar panels quit working after about 7 years, where ya gonna put that stuff?
Cadmium Disulfide.
Nasty stuff that quits working and can't be recycled. Considering most high quality solar panels quit working after about 7 years, where ya gonna put that stuff?
I don't know where dirtydeed lives in Canada, but my off peak hydro rate is 8.5 cent/kwh. Using his math, that it $1.36CAD to charge a 16kwh battery overnight (about $1.00 USD). Divide that by his 25 mile example, and it would cost 5.4 cents CAD per mile, compared to 10 cents/mile with a gas car with a claimed 32mpg. In city driving, not likely you would get 32mpg, but electric car milage cost does not change for start/stop traffic as much as gas. That is because when an electric car brakes, the braking is by electric motor which re-charges the battery while braking (aka engine braking).
Also, gas in Canada is closer to $4.50-$5CAD per US gallon (almost 4 liters at $1.25/L), unless you live in Alberta. Thus a gas car would cost 14 cents/mile at $4.50/USG for "most" people by his example.
Not sure if he is mixing CAD vs USD in some cases.
Granted, many hybrids are not fully developed, especially the plug-in hybrids. All-electric cars are not that great for long distance driving, especially in remote areas. Plug-in hybrids with a good 16 to 20kwh battery is a good option, enough battery power for a city trip without using gas, a gas engine for long highway trips.
Also, gas in Canada is closer to $4.50-$5CAD per US gallon (almost 4 liters at $1.25/L), unless you live in Alberta. Thus a gas car would cost 14 cents/mile at $4.50/USG for "most" people by his example.
Not sure if he is mixing CAD vs USD in some cases.
Granted, many hybrids are not fully developed, especially the plug-in hybrids. All-electric cars are not that great for long distance driving, especially in remote areas. Plug-in hybrids with a good 16 to 20kwh battery is a good option, enough battery power for a city trip without using gas, a gas engine for long highway trips.
In Ontario everyone likes to quote the cost of electricity but they neglect the cost of the delivery fees, service charges and taxes...these charges are higher than the actual energy consumed charges. Right now with all the rebates, energy use and fees we are paying about $0.18/kwhr NOT the $0.085/kwhr everyone quotes.
I took a serious look at an electric car when buying our last vehicle. The cost per km to drive electric is about $0.04/km. In comparison, my 4 cylinder motorcycle costs $0.05/km to drive. My hybrid cars cost $0.06/km. Regular 4 cyl gas cars are $0.09-$0.12/km to drive. My duramax diesel cost $0.16-$0.20/km.
Here's the interesting part. When the cost of electricity hits $0.25/kwhr the all electric vehicle will cost more to drive per km than the hybrid.
In Ontario the government will be dropping the electricity rate carbon tax subsidy and our costs are expected to increase by 50% in 2025.
I took a serious look at an electric car when buying our last vehicle. The cost per km to drive electric is about $0.04/km. In comparison, my 4 cylinder motorcycle costs $0.05/km to drive. My hybrid cars cost $0.06/km. Regular 4 cyl gas cars are $0.09-$0.12/km to drive. My duramax diesel cost $0.16-$0.20/km.
Here's the interesting part. When the cost of electricity hits $0.25/kwhr the all electric vehicle will cost more to drive per km than the hybrid.
In Ontario the government will be dropping the electricity rate carbon tax subsidy and our costs are expected to increase by 50% in 2025.
Lots of theory being discussed.
If a charger is capable of drawing 60A, then you can't put it on a 60A circuit. The NEC won't allow it, they require a safety pad, so IIRC they'll require a 75A circuit. Also applies to the infrastructure, they ain't gonna let poco's size the wire for the exact current demand, they also want a pad of safety so that when more people start adding more chargers, they don't have to be constantly replacing lines.
And therein lies the problem. Basically if the chargers are rated at a max 60A (for example only), that's equivalent to adding a small house to every existing house; theoretically doubling the load on the generation system and all conductors and transformers in between the load and the generation station (power plant). We are not currently set up for that. So what's that mean? The push for electric cars is GOING to cost everyone. PoCo's are gonna have to update/upgrade their entire operations, there is going to have to be more generators (more power plants?) and all that stuff costs money. Do you think they're gonna just eat the cost? No, they're also a business, they pass the costs onto the consumer. If it costs a million to add a generator and they're distributing the power to a million people, each person pays an extra dollar---PLUS all the taxes and fees they add. So $1.25. Don't sound like much does it? It just goes up and up and up. Now I don't know about you all but I don't get a pay raise as often as the cost of living goes up. Maybe you guys do but I don't. I'm pretty well tapped out currently. 100% of budget is just paying bills and bills keep going up. Gas is going up. Energy is going up. Everything (but it was expected because of the election) is going up in cost. So I have options, either take a second job, ask for a raise, or get another one (supposedly according to Obiden that's the correct way "Just find another job"). I am sorry if I offend anyone but anytime a democrat is elected into office and/or a congress becomes democratically controlled, the cost of living goes up for everyone.
I work on EV's for a living and trust me, there are a TON of little things that people don't consider. How do you dispose of batteries and battery packs? Currently there is no disposal process for certain batteries. Lead-acid is one thing but cad dis batteries? Nobody will take them because they can't do anythign with them here, so they're just piling up out behind the shop. And replacing a battery in an EV is NOT cheap (again costs keep going up). Remember....Obama indirectly shut down a lead plant and once that was done, the cost of batteries went up, along with the price of bullets and fishing lures and basically anything that contains Lead. Wiring, have to replace it. The amount of current that flows through the conductors will destroy the conductor if the connection is not top notch--and some of them aren't. There is serious fire hazard with them and I have seen one or two burn to the ground. Electric motors. The motors themselves are limited as to how fast they can turn due to the weight of the armature. So you have a choice, put a transmission on it (Mustangs are a good example) or slow the vehicle down to about 65mph. Transmission means there is transmission fluid to replace. A manual gearbox would be ideal but since we've become conditioned that automatics are the way to go (something like 90% of American's can't drive a manual), automatic is going to be the only option most likely. Transaxles, or differential? Stuff I work on has a transaxle, still requires fluid changes. When a motor fails, it fails spectacularly. Smoke fire stink. Seen one burn the back half of the machine up when the motor failed. When an engine fails in a diesel or gas burner, it usually seizes and that's it. Sometimes it will eject parts but not often, and fire is extremely rare. Most of "us" on the site are smart enough to know that when the electric motor is failing and the vehicle is slowing down, and the little wrench light is on, PULL OVER and STOP..........BUT the soccer moms and probably 75% of Americans don't have that kind of smarts, it's slowing down so just push the gas pedal harder so we can get to soccer practice. Next thing you know you're sitting on teh side of the road in the heat or cold watching your little cute Tesla burn to the ground while the fire department is on the way. Then the possibility of more and differently trained fire departments exist because of ev's. Taxes go up to pay for it.
....there is an entire SLEW of problems that go with EV's and people don't understand. Think a little deeper into it and you'll see that we are fixing to be in for a set of big problems that nobody knows how to solve. Those that won't embrace EV's? You're gonna have to pay higher taxes on your gas burner. Guarantee that's coming. Same thing they do on everything else that they don't want, they tax it heavily so you can't afford it.
If a charger is capable of drawing 60A, then you can't put it on a 60A circuit. The NEC won't allow it, they require a safety pad, so IIRC they'll require a 75A circuit. Also applies to the infrastructure, they ain't gonna let poco's size the wire for the exact current demand, they also want a pad of safety so that when more people start adding more chargers, they don't have to be constantly replacing lines.
And therein lies the problem. Basically if the chargers are rated at a max 60A (for example only), that's equivalent to adding a small house to every existing house; theoretically doubling the load on the generation system and all conductors and transformers in between the load and the generation station (power plant). We are not currently set up for that. So what's that mean? The push for electric cars is GOING to cost everyone. PoCo's are gonna have to update/upgrade their entire operations, there is going to have to be more generators (more power plants?) and all that stuff costs money. Do you think they're gonna just eat the cost? No, they're also a business, they pass the costs onto the consumer. If it costs a million to add a generator and they're distributing the power to a million people, each person pays an extra dollar---PLUS all the taxes and fees they add. So $1.25. Don't sound like much does it? It just goes up and up and up. Now I don't know about you all but I don't get a pay raise as often as the cost of living goes up. Maybe you guys do but I don't. I'm pretty well tapped out currently. 100% of budget is just paying bills and bills keep going up. Gas is going up. Energy is going up. Everything (but it was expected because of the election) is going up in cost. So I have options, either take a second job, ask for a raise, or get another one (supposedly according to Obiden that's the correct way "Just find another job"). I am sorry if I offend anyone but anytime a democrat is elected into office and/or a congress becomes democratically controlled, the cost of living goes up for everyone.
I work on EV's for a living and trust me, there are a TON of little things that people don't consider. How do you dispose of batteries and battery packs? Currently there is no disposal process for certain batteries. Lead-acid is one thing but cad dis batteries? Nobody will take them because they can't do anythign with them here, so they're just piling up out behind the shop. And replacing a battery in an EV is NOT cheap (again costs keep going up). Remember....Obama indirectly shut down a lead plant and once that was done, the cost of batteries went up, along with the price of bullets and fishing lures and basically anything that contains Lead. Wiring, have to replace it. The amount of current that flows through the conductors will destroy the conductor if the connection is not top notch--and some of them aren't. There is serious fire hazard with them and I have seen one or two burn to the ground. Electric motors. The motors themselves are limited as to how fast they can turn due to the weight of the armature. So you have a choice, put a transmission on it (Mustangs are a good example) or slow the vehicle down to about 65mph. Transmission means there is transmission fluid to replace. A manual gearbox would be ideal but since we've become conditioned that automatics are the way to go (something like 90% of American's can't drive a manual), automatic is going to be the only option most likely. Transaxles, or differential? Stuff I work on has a transaxle, still requires fluid changes. When a motor fails, it fails spectacularly. Smoke fire stink. Seen one burn the back half of the machine up when the motor failed. When an engine fails in a diesel or gas burner, it usually seizes and that's it. Sometimes it will eject parts but not often, and fire is extremely rare. Most of "us" on the site are smart enough to know that when the electric motor is failing and the vehicle is slowing down, and the little wrench light is on, PULL OVER and STOP..........BUT the soccer moms and probably 75% of Americans don't have that kind of smarts, it's slowing down so just push the gas pedal harder so we can get to soccer practice. Next thing you know you're sitting on teh side of the road in the heat or cold watching your little cute Tesla burn to the ground while the fire department is on the way. Then the possibility of more and differently trained fire departments exist because of ev's. Taxes go up to pay for it.
....there is an entire SLEW of problems that go with EV's and people don't understand. Think a little deeper into it and you'll see that we are fixing to be in for a set of big problems that nobody knows how to solve. Those that won't embrace EV's? You're gonna have to pay higher taxes on your gas burner. Guarantee that's coming. Same thing they do on everything else that they don't want, they tax it heavily so you can't afford it.
If you reread my post, it is rated for a max of 48amp draw on a 60amp circuit. The 60amp circuit is taking the safety factor into consideration. You can put in a 75amp breaker but it will still only pull 48amps.
shelkol
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The bottom line is we live on a planet with a limited amount of oil / coal / gas and when it runs out ( not in my lifetime) we are in deep doodoo!. I agree much of this is flailing about t this time and it doesn't seem we have a good solution as yet. But I think we still have to be working toward a good solution.
BTW, I pay $0.1074 per KWH and then another $0.11 for delivery. So we're talking $0.2174 per KWH in Massachusetts. Use that number when you calculate savings
I do have a 5KW solar system that has been running since December, 2012. With tax breaks and subsidies I am in the black by several thousand. It covers most of my electric bills. But it does need power from the grid in the winter, so we need generation that is reliable.
BTW, I pay $0.1074 per KWH and then another $0.11 for delivery. So we're talking $0.2174 per KWH in Massachusetts. Use that number when you calculate savings
I do have a 5KW solar system that has been running since December, 2012. With tax breaks and subsidies I am in the black by several thousand. It covers most of my electric bills. But it does need power from the grid in the winter, so we need generation that is reliable.
One other problem with the electric vehicles that was found out during the cold months, the range for them is almost half the stated range of the vehicle. As far as the whole wind/solar energy topic is concerned, here is a pretty good summation of the problems with it:
That's because when they built the windmill they didn't pay for the optional items for them to deice themselves. Here in Iowa there are hundreds of these windmills that operate in temperatures below 0°F without issue because they use the heat created by the generator to heat the blades above icing temperatures.
This was caused by a cost saving measure.
dirtydeed
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Yes, that left me scratching my head as well. I had thought that the article was written in Canada. However, after the debacle in TX recently perhaps $1/kwh would be a bargain.
dirtydeed
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Reread the very first line in post #6. I am NOT the author of this article....and it's NOT my math and I do NOT live in Canada.
Carry on
In Ontario, with the delivery fee factored into the kWh rate, in my area, on peak is about 35c/kWh. (17c before all the extra fees on the bill)
The heating elements on airplane propellers draw enough power. They spin at ~2000rpm so they’ll shed ice. I don’t know what those windmills spin at but a 75’ blade would need a heck of a deice boot.
I would be curious to know if they could make enough power to deice themselves....
Also, icing conditions are worse just below freezing than as cold as 0f
at least in airplanes. 
I am engineer and really expect there to be some bounds to a discussion such as this.
What is your definition of 'alternate' energy? Hydroelectric has been around long enough to not be considered ' alternate'. Also... do you really wish to include ALL forms of energy..... or restrict the discussion to electricity?
Can we start with the assumption that you really mean NON fossil fuel ELECTRICITY ?
Also, some of the above discussion has gone 'off topic'.... Generation, Storage, movement and consumption of electricity are very separate subjects.
In the end... MANY of the current methods of generating electricity are VERY inefficient (and bad for envrionment) when considering end-to-end lifespan of the entire process.
*) The OP already showed us some of the fallacies of wind-to-electricity
*) Ethanol in our gasoline is another goofy, government-funded scheme.
-- The cost of diesel-fuel to till, plant, harvest and extract the ethanol is FARRR more than the resultant energy. A side-effect to this makes the cost of FOOD go up by way of using the farmland to produce ethanol.
*) Solar-to-electric uses all kinds of nasty chemicals. Consumes a lot of farmland (here in Vermont) and disposal is fussy. Not to mention that not enough sunlight hits the earth even if we covered the entire planet with panels.
*) Theoretically, nuclear power is the cleanest and most-efficient. Humans have not perfected this yet.
*) Hydroelectric consumes a lot of land to generate power....but at least it is 'green'
The biggest issue is STORAGE of energy when the generation-source is 'spikey'
*) BATTERY technology needs a revolution before it is really useful.
-- nasty chemicals, bulky, heavy, slow to charge.
*) There are some promising results using GYROSCOPES. (magnetic bearings are the secret-sauce)
-- a gyroscope 'charges' slowly... but can release its stored energy VERY quickly.
*) SUPER CAPACITORS are interesting and may be useful when combined with other technologies.
-- SUPERCAPS can charge/drain nearly instantaneously because they store ELECTRONS in their native state. (not chemically like a battery)
What is your definition of 'alternate' energy? Hydroelectric has been around long enough to not be considered ' alternate'. Also... do you really wish to include ALL forms of energy..... or restrict the discussion to electricity?
Can we start with the assumption that you really mean NON fossil fuel ELECTRICITY ?
Also, some of the above discussion has gone 'off topic'.... Generation, Storage, movement and consumption of electricity are very separate subjects.
In the end... MANY of the current methods of generating electricity are VERY inefficient (and bad for envrionment) when considering end-to-end lifespan of the entire process.
*) The OP already showed us some of the fallacies of wind-to-electricity
*) Ethanol in our gasoline is another goofy, government-funded scheme.
-- The cost of diesel-fuel to till, plant, harvest and extract the ethanol is FARRR more than the resultant energy. A side-effect to this makes the cost of FOOD go up by way of using the farmland to produce ethanol.
*) Solar-to-electric uses all kinds of nasty chemicals. Consumes a lot of farmland (here in Vermont) and disposal is fussy. Not to mention that not enough sunlight hits the earth even if we covered the entire planet with panels.
*) Theoretically, nuclear power is the cleanest and most-efficient. Humans have not perfected this yet.
*) Hydroelectric consumes a lot of land to generate power....but at least it is 'green'
The biggest issue is STORAGE of energy when the generation-source is 'spikey'
*) BATTERY technology needs a revolution before it is really useful.
-- nasty chemicals, bulky, heavy, slow to charge.
*) There are some promising results using GYROSCOPES. (magnetic bearings are the secret-sauce)
-- a gyroscope 'charges' slowly... but can release its stored energy VERY quickly.
*) SUPER CAPACITORS are interesting and may be useful when combined with other technologies.
-- SUPERCAPS can charge/drain nearly instantaneously because they store ELECTRONS in their native state. (not chemically like a battery)