"Houston, we have ignition................"

[Runs With Scissors]

Well fellas, with the "Hydraulic SSQA" project nearly behind me, my mind has moved on, and is considering how/what/when/why to do my "Hydraulic thumb".

I have been searching for ideas, and I really like what @RaleighL35 did with his.

https://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/threads/2003-tlb-l35-bt900-backhoe-hydraulic-thumb.56902/

I was particualy inpressed with his "hydraulics" and I am/would like to copy much of what he did.

Now I am not a "total dumbass", (but I have my moments....for sure ) but I have some questions that need addressing before dumping "piles of cash" into this thing.

1. I am considering this type of cylinder, mainly cause I don't need the "swivel ends"....but the length needs to be finalized. As per normal, there is no "free lunch". I gotta give up either the "stowed away'ness" or give up "extended length".

I am presuming that these 2 choices are my best options, but I am open to suggestions.



Or this one.





Secondly, and possibly/probably most importantly, since I want to be able to "feather" the thumb instead of just having it "turn on and off" at full pressure..... I think I need the same (or similar) control valve to what @RaleighL35 used?

Since these valves are not "cheap" and there are TONS AND TONS or different part numbers, I want to be 1,000% sure this one will work with my system.....and will it "feather" the hydraulics?

Lastly, are there other/better options for valves?

https://aztechydraulics.com/product...giqMK-1n2PKEZDRPaKQ6o7JexR4U2EWeXjBopjjpzXthg


Let the games BEGIN!!!!!!!!

 

[PoTreeBoy]

What model backhoe do you have? Are you set on the foot pedal? I think I have a Husco 5000 valve section left over from my 3rd function project, but the spool would come out the top instead of the bottom.

From a little experience with my POS manual thumb, you'll want enough travel for the thumb to go nearly vertical, in line with the dipper stick. And you'll want it stowable if you're going to dig with the bucket. You could do a plywood mock-up before you buy.

I followed RaleighL35's thread and was impressed. I have a hydraulic thumb project on the way-back project list. One question I have is will the thumb for a BHxx fit on my BT900? In my mind, I've decided on an electric valve with a switch on one of the joysticks.

Oh, you may want to use 1/4" hoses to get them through the boom joint.

Good luck, at least one of us will be following your progress.

 

[lynnmor]

 

[Chanceywd]

The one I used is Magister too but it has the outlets clocked to the side which I found to be a better plan at least for my way of thinking.
I think I posted info on here.

Pardon Our Interruption...

This the rod end is perfect, the base end is the right pin but you will need to add or shim the width.
I also wanted it to tuck up as tight as possible so I plugged the base and redrilled a fraction of an inch off.
If you buy and mount first you may be happy with that. It may just be a variation in the factory manual thumb mount too.

I run mine off my third function and I have the base end tied to a relief valve so it can't get overpowered by the bucket cylinder and cause bending or blown valve or hoses.
My son made me a couple handles with a 3d printer so i have switches to control.

Edit, I have bought an extra 3d function valve and have thoughts of mounting that on the BH77.
That way Id only need a 12 trailer plug.
I think I should be able to put that on the inlet side on the backhoe valve and my relief teed in on the outlet side as that is going to the 3pt to tank if I understand that right.

With the backhoe off all hydraulics in regards to 3pt would be back to stock.

Bill

 

[Tarmy]

Best implement I have on the tractor cause we have rocks, lots of rocks. I routed the hydraulic hoses on the outside and they have never been a problem snagging. Looks weird but has been great for 17 years now. I used a no name cylinder so no help there.

 

[Chanceywd]

Best implement I have on the tractor cause we have rocks, lots of rocks. I routed the hydraulic hoses on the outside and they have never been a problem snagging. Looks weird but has been great for 17 years now. I used a no name cylinder so no help there. View attachment 179009 View attachment 179010 View attachment 179011 View attachment 179012 View attachment 179013

What do you use to control the thumb circuit?

Bill

 

[Chanceywd]

What model backhoe do you have? Are you set on the foot pedal? I think I have a Husco 5000 valve section left over from my 3rd function project, but the spool would come out the top instead of the bottom.

From a little experience with my POS manual thumb, you'll want enough travel for the thumb to go nearly vertical, in line with the dipper stick. And you'll want it stowable if you're going to dig with the bucket. You could do a plywood mock-up before you buy.

I followed RaleighL35's thread and was impressed. I have a hydraulic thumb project on the way-back project list. One question I have is will the thumb for a BHxx fit on my BT900? In my mind, I've decided on an electric valve with a switch on one of the joysticks.

Oh, you may want to use 1/4" hoses to get them through the boom joint.

Good luck, at least one of us will be following your progress.

I used 1/4" hoses and was able to thread them thru too.

Bill

 

[Chanceywd]

Well fellas, with the "Hydraulic SSQA" project nearly behind me, my mind has moved on, and is considering how/what/when/why to do my "Hydraulic thumb".

I have been searching for ideas, and I really like what @RaleighL35 did with his.

https://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/threads/2003-tlb-l35-bt900-backhoe-hydraulic-thumb.56902/

I was particualy inpressed with his "hydraulics" and I am/would like to copy much of what he did.

Now I am not a "total dumbass", (but I have my moments....for sure ) but I have some questions that need addressing before dumping "piles of cash" into this thing.

1. I am considering this type of cylinder, mainly cause I don't need the "swivel ends"....but the length needs to be finalized. As per normal, there is no "free lunch". I gotta give up either the "stowed away'ness" or give up "extended length".

I am presuming that these 2 choices are my best options, but I am open to suggestions.
View attachment 178985


Or this one.


View attachment 178986


Secondly, and possibly/probably most importantly, since I want to be able to "feather" the thumb instead of just having it "turn on and off" at full pressure..... I think I need the same (or similar) control valve to what @RaleighL35 used?

Since these valves are not "cheap" and there are TONS AND TONS or different part numbers, I want to be 1,000% sure this one will work with my system.....and will it "feather" the hydraulics?

Lastly, are there other/better options for valves?

https://aztechydraulics.com/product...giqMK-1n2PKEZDRPaKQ6o7JexR4U2EWeXjBopjjpzXthg


Let the games BEGIN!!!!!!!!

Those cylinders both have 3/4 pin bore. The one I used has the 1.02 pin bore you will need. It is 2" bore 10" stroke.

This is the one I used

Pardon Our Interruption...

Bill

 

[Tarmy]

What do you use to control the thumb circuit?

Bill


i installed rear remotes and that thumb is controlled by the lever next to the seat…

 

[Shawn T. W]

This is what I'm in the process of getting in mine ... https://surpluscenter.com/1-5-x-12-x-1-double-acting-hydraulic-cylinder-maxim-400509/ 19.25" - 31.25” it dies have the round balls on the end, I need to make bushings/spacers ...

I needed 19" - 29" based off my manual thumb, so this will push it out a tad more ... How much travel do you need?



I added a cross over valve from @Kennyd4110 - https://www.boltonhooks.com/product/ucrv/



There is not a lot of room ... But it clears!



I'm gonna be operating it via one of my four rear remotes ...

 

[Runs With Scissors]

What model backhoe do you have? Are you set on the foot pedal? I think I have a Husco 5000 valve section left over from my 3rd function project, but the spool would come out the top instead of the bottom.

From a little experience with my POS manual thumb, you'll want enough travel for the thumb to go nearly vertical, in line with the dipper stick. And you'll want it stowable if you're going to dig with the bucket. You could do a plywood mock-up before you buy.

I followed RaleighL35's thread and was impressed. I have a hydraulic thumb project on the way-back project list. One question I have is will the thumb for a BHxx fit on my BT900? In my mind, I've decided on an electric valve with a switch on one of the joysticks.

Oh, you may want to use 1/4" hoses to get them through the boom joint.

Good luck, at least one of us will be following your progress.

Since I am going to "custom make" all the parts, I might be interested in your valve section. I will take a look and see if it's "do'able".

I have a BH77, and the most important thing to me as far as control is concerned is the ability to "feather" the hydraulics if possible.

Foot or hand operated is less important to me because I am not a "real excavator operator" so once I get used to my set up, I could care less what other machines use.

I also believe 1/4 inch hoses should be fine.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

This is what I'm in the process of getting in mine ... https://surpluscenter.com/1-5-x-12-x-1-double-acting-hydraulic-cylinder-maxim-400509/ 19.25" - 31.25” it dies have the round balls on the end, I need to make bushings/spacers ...

I needed 19" - 29" based off my manual thumb, so this will push it out a tad more ... How much travel do you need?

View attachment 179028

I added a cross over valve from @Kennyd4110 - https://www.boltonhooks.com/product/ucrv/

View attachment 179029

There is not a lot of room ... But it clears!

View attachment 179030

I'm gonna be operating it via one of my four rear remotes ...

I think I need about the same 19"-29" that you have, but I'll have to double check.

EDIT:When you say that your going to use your rear remotes, does that mean you will have to "reach back" to operate them? (it's actually "reaching forward" I suppose)

I have 3 rear remotes already......Hmmmmmm


Pardon my ignorance, but what does that cross-over/relief valve do?

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Those cylinders both have 3/4 pin bore. The one I used has the 1.02 pin bore you will need. It is 2" bore 10" stroke.

This is the one I used

Pardon Our Interruption...

Bill

So do you find that the 10" stroke is enough? I am caught between the 10 not being quite long enough, but the 12" not retracting enough to stow properly????



Also Bill, when you say you had to "plug the base, and redrill it", I don't understand what that means? Did you have to move one of the ports due to an interference problem?

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Since I am going to "custom make" all the parts, I might be interested in your valve section. I will take a look and see if it's "do'able".

I have a BH77, and the most important thing to me as far as control is concerned is the ability to "feather" the hydraulics if possible.

Foot or hand operated is less important to me because I am not a "real excavator operator" so once I get used to my set up, I could care less what other machines use.

I also believe 1/4 inch hoses should be fine.

Are you sure you have a Husco 5000? The valve on the parts list shows 4 tie rods, and the Husco 5000 has 3.

 

[Chanceywd]

So do you find that the 10" stroke is enough? I am caught between the 10 not being quite long enough, but the 12" not retracting enough to stow properly????



Also Bill, when you say you had to "plug the base, and redrill it", I don't understand what that means? Did you have to move one of the ports due to an interference problem?

I find that the 10" stroke works perfect. In my pictures you can see with it retracted and extended how close the cylinder and piston are to other parts.
That cylinder link I posted has the dimensions and it is 19 closed and 29 open.

The retracted was very close but I wanted it to tuck up as close as i could get it.
I plugged and welded the base pin hole and then re drilled it a fraction of an inch off,
I also welded a 1" shaft collar on each side and milled them down to get the desired width.

If I can remember I will measure my pin to pin as it is in its altered state.

If you choose to use this cylinder you may find if close enough to install out of the box and just shim with washers or a couple spacers you might make on your lathe.
A point I brought up before is there may be some variation in the manual thumb mount but I don't know that is just a thought.
I welded the collars to also give more bearing to the re drilled area.
I would wonder if a 12 inch would have the rod hitting on the dipper arm fully extended.
I didn't change the ports. I picked that cylinder because it has them clocked to the side and I ran them on the left. I see others using them with hoses on the bucket side and I worry a stone or branch or root could get in there.

Bill

Edit, I couldn't measure pin to pin as there is no way with out disassembly.
But with it fully retracted, and the bushing at the thumb mount and the bushing at the thumb both measuring 1.5" in diameter i measured top to top and have 18 and 7/8" so I must have changed that base end hole moving it about 1/8" shorter.

Again you might find out of the box this step is not needed, it was just me being me.
I would maybe suggest putting it on and maybe moving it with air or by hand to see if the rod clears.

Bill

 

[Runs With Scissors]

I find that the 10" stroke works perfect. In my pictures you can see with it retracted and extended how close the cylinder and piston are to other parts.
That cylinder link I posted has the dimensions and it is 19 closed and 29 open.

The retracted was very close but I wanted it to tuck up as close as i could get it.
I plugged and welded the base pin hole and then re drilled it a fraction of an inch off,
I also welded a 1" shaft collar on each side and milled them down to get the desired width.

If I can remember I will measure my pin to pin as it is in its altered state.

If you choose to use this cylinder you may find if close enough to install out of the box and just shim with washers or a couple spacers you might make on your lathe.
A point I brought up before is there may be some variation in the manual thumb mount but I don't know that is just a thought.
I welded the collars to also give more bearing to the re drilled area.
I would wonder if a 12 inch would have the rod hitting on the dipper arm fully extended.
I didn't change the ports. I picked that cylinder because it has them clocked to the side and I ran them on the left. I see others using them with hoses on the bucket side and I worry a stone or branch or root could get in there.

Bill

Edit, I couldn't measure pin to pin as there is no way with out disassembly.
But with it fully retracted, and the bushing at the thumb mount and the bushing at the thumb both measuring 1.5" in diameter i measured top to top and have 18 and 7/8" so I must have changed that base end hole moving it about 1/8" shorter.

Again you might find out of the box this step is not needed, it was just me being me.
I would maybe suggest putting it on and maybe moving it with air or by hand to see if the rod clears.

Bill

Thank you sir for the explanation.

I just got in from measuring my manual thumb and it is exactly 19" retracted and 28 at full extension.

Are you sure you have a Husco 5000? The valve on the parts list shows 4 tie rods, and the Husco 5000 has 3.

No sir, I am still very unclear on what I have.

The only thing I am "sure of" is that it is a factory Kubota system (Since I am the one that had to con the Old Lady into buying it )

But which valve(S) will work is still kind of an "Enigma wrapped in a riddle" to me.....

 

[Chanceywd]

Thank you sir for the explanation.

I just got in from measuring my manual thumb and it is exactly 19" retracted and 28 at full extension.





No sir, I am still very unclear on what I have.

The only thing I am "sure of" is that it is a factory Kubota system (Since I am the one that had to con the Old Lady into buying it )

But which valve(S) will work is still kind of an "Enigma wrapped in a riddle" to me.....

Here is another thing to throw into the riddle pile.
I bought a BXpanded quick change after I did the hydraulic and that caused one problem.
There is gussets on the kubota thumb that will hit that quick change. I ground it out some but finally cut them way back as I figured for my purposes it was way over built.

So watch for that if you have or want a quick change for the BH77.

Bill

 

[Runs With Scissors]

HOLD THE PHONE!!!!!!!!!!

I was out there, just thinking(I know....dangerous)....

Well,.... as I looked at the back of the tractor, it hit me like a sack of hammers....I have rear remotes already.




I kinda forgot about them.

Legend has it, that a guy was tractor shopping for his first tractor when he ran across multiple threads saying something like

"If you even think you're gonna have a need for rear remotes, get them when you buy the tractor"

Well...He did...X3

So now I am thinking this could be WAY, WAY easier than originally thought.

My mind immediately pictured a linkage that goes from a "pedal" of some sort, directly back to the valves.





I would probably "re-route" a pair of those hoses underneath the backhoe for aestheic reasons as well.

Comments....thoughts....suggestions....ideas???????


I can't get the thought of a automotive shifter cable out of my head, but even an "adjustable rod" would likely work?????????


Oh BTW I am making a new "coupler holder" out of stainless....I cant stand that rusty one pictured.

 

[Tarmy]

Just get a valve assembly. Pics of my old and new controls for thumb…either way works. You gotta figure out where you want the control.

 

[Shawn T. W]

EDIT:When you say that your going to use your rear remotes, does that mean you will have to "reach back" to operate them? (it's actually "reaching forward" I suppose)

Remote valves will be to the left side of the seat when facing forward, right side when sitting backwards ... Here is the valve ... I don't have it yet, but the picture is from previous owner that has same tractor that upgraded ...



My tractor is a tad different than yours, factory seat swivels, but I didn't like doing that so bought a aftermarket one to add to the back ...

Pardon my ignorance, but what does that cross-over/relief valve do?

Since there are no "reliefs" on the valves when they are in neutral, you can easily pop a hose or seal in the thumb cylinder since most likely the bucket cylinder can overpower it. The CRV offers some level of protection. (I'm putting one on the front angle plow circuit too!)