Guns...Times have changed...

[Biker1mike]

The Declaration in Independence in a great part of US history. It was written as justification for treason.
If you are using it to justify having a weapon, one can assume you are planning treason.
If it wasn't for France and Spain there was an excellent chance the revolution would have failed and those founding fathers would have been executed. Do you think any other nation is going to offer military support for another civil war in this country.

I disagree with a gun is a gun. The AR round and barrel twist was developed for 30 - 50 yard encounters with heavy cover. It allowed several soldiers to put a lot of hurt in an area without aiming (more or less). The high velocity and unstable path once it hit human flesh caused maximum damage. While it may miss an artery the concussive shock wave will destroy all nearby tissue. The exit path is not straight and causes even more damage. It did manage to lower the POW rate as what might have been a thru and thru was now lethal.
It was designed as a weapon of war and does what it is designed to do, kill as many as possible while losing as few as you can.

 

[Biker1mike]

Absolutely. Have you read our history? How we overthrew our government and put in place one that served the people and not the crown? Just farmers with muskets against a well established army.
And in modern times, did you see how cave dwellers in a 3rd world shithole gave a world superpower a run for its money for 12 years? Not once but twice, first the Soviet Union then the United States. People that wiped their asses with a bare hand but somehow couldnt be defeated by 2 superpowers.

At the point which a revolution ever happens on American soil the military will be weak or broken in factions most likely.

You will never win a war without the people on your side. For some reason after Korea and Viet Nam our politicians still do not understand.

As to the military falling apart. I would never ever bet against the US military.

 

[Joisey]

"Guns Should Not Be In The Hands Of The Mentally Unstable" Says Senile Man With Nukes.

Well, as the old saw goes, "America, where ANYONE can grow up and become president." Tho I believe they carried it a bit far this time.

 

[Geezer3d]

It is a complete deception to claim that 'guns are the number one cause of child death'. Guns do not cause death. Guns may make it easier for the person using one to cause death, but it is the person using the gun that is the problem. The cultural and mental health issues that are the real cause are very difficult to address, but the violence will continue until those problems are solved.

 

[Henro]

It is a complete deception to claim that 'guns are the number one cause of child death'. Guns do not cause death. Guns may make it easier for the person using one to cause death, but it is the person using the gun that is the problem. The cultural and mental health issues that are the real cause are very difficult to address, but the violence will continue until those problems are solved.

Not MAY but actually DO make it easier. But other methods are out there as well for the crazies.

In Japan, for example, guns are highly regulated. So the weirdos buy a couple gallons of gasoline, get on a bus, quickly dump it in the aisle way, light it off, and kill themselves and many innocent passengers...where there is a will there is a way...sadly...

 

[bird dogger]

My father and his brothers all served in WWII. At a family reunion once, I remember them discussing the
Battle of Athens that happened just post war in Tennessee. A very wild method to put down a local corrupt government.

 

[Clevus]

I disagree with a gun is a gun. The AR round and barrel twist was developed for 30 - 50 yard encounters with heavy cover. It allowed several soldiers to put a lot of hurt in an area without aiming (more or less). The high velocity and unstable path once it hit human flesh caused maximum damage. While it may miss an artery the concussive shock wave will destroy all nearby tissue. The exit path is not straight and causes even more damage. It did manage to lower the POW rate as what might have been a thru and thru was now lethal.
It was designed as a weapon of war and does what it is designed to do, kill as many as possible while losing as few as you can.

The AR15 is the number one sporting rifle in America. Mostly because it is lightweight, versatile and easy to shoot.
I have a 1-8 twist barrel in one because it helps stabilize the heavier bullets at 200+ yards. My box stock Colt AR has a 1-7 twist. Both are pretty accurate with just about any ammo.
Just to demonstrate the versatility, I put a .450 Bushmaster upper on them to fill the freezer with venison. I can switch calibers by pulling two pins, as easy as a quick hitch!

 

[jyoutz]

A lot of good the "trained" police officer(s) did in Uvalde, Texas. Took the Border Patrol to take care of the problem - ignoring the order from police to NOT go in. At least that's what was reported on the news last night.

Yeah, those police should be fired and replaced.

 

[jyoutz]

The AR15 is the number one sporting rifle in America. Mostly because it is lightweight, versatile and easy to shoot.
I have a 1-8 twist barrel in one because it helps stabilize the heavier bullets at 200+ yards. My box stock Colt AR has a 1-7 twist. Both are pretty accurate with just about any ammo.
Just to demonstrate the versatility, I put a .450 Bushmaster upper on them to fill the freezer with venison. I can switch calibers by pulling two pins, as easy as a quick hitch!

I have been hunting deer and elk for over 40 years; never seen anyone hunting with an AR. We tend to take long shots in the west: over 200 yards. Bolt action scoped rifles are the norm.

 

[Clevus]

I have been hunting deer and elk for over 40 years; never seen anyone hunting with an AR. We tend to take long shots in the west: over 200 yards. Bolt action scoped rifles are the norm.

I hunted the east side of the sierras and northern Nevada for thirty years with a 30.06 bolt gun.
Here in Michigan we have a shotgun/straight wall cartridge zone. The 12 ga slugs pound my old shoulder pretty good. I got to shoot my neighbors AR in .450 and was sold on it. It’s a lot like shooting a 20 ga shotgun. Thumper is the term used.
Plenty of people hunt with the AR platform.
I know a few out west that have gone to the .308 AR10.

But hunting isn’t the point of the Second Amendment.
Imagine you lived in an urban, or suburban locale and there were roving band of rioters, looters and marauders reeking havoc on your community. Your local law enforcement are overwhelmed, unable to respond to calls for help or ordered to stand down. Basically, 911 isn’t taking any calls. What would you want to defend your family with?

 

[Henro]

I don’t know much about hunting, and I know less about using a firearm for killing anybody or anything. But I can share one thing that relates to that woman that took care of that guy that was using a firearm to try to kill people a day or two ago. .

A simple memory, of being at a buffet before the start of the Covid issue. I noticed a guy that didn’t look like a police officer, but he had a pistol on his hip, and I am guessing now that it was probably an open carry thing. But the feeling I had was a good one. I just felt that he was there, just in case something bad happened.

I just don’t think that people that are anti-gun realize that good people carrying guns can actually help all the other good people that are out there that could be in pearl if somebody evil with a gun appears.

So much for what this independent thinker thinks I guess. In many other ways I might be condemned as a liberal I suppose.

Different topic, BUT I am totally opposed to giving a free ride to those who did not pay off their student loans, unless an equivalent amount is given to those who did. Even then, the cost is just shifted to the rest of us. Thumbs down to that idea.

 

[Biker1mike]

......
I just don’t think that people that are anti-gun realize that good people carrying guns can actually help all the other good people that are out there that could be in pearl if somebody evil with a gun appears.
........ clipped by biker1mike

The good people carrying guns theory went to hell in Texas. Not only armed , but , with body armor , a nice swat armored truck and neat cowboy hats. They sat as little kids got turned into jello.

I am not anti gun but I most certainly do not buy that logic.

 

[mcmxi]

I have been hunting deer and elk for over 40 years; never seen anyone hunting with an AR. We tend to take long shots in the west: over 200 yards. Bolt action scoped rifles are the norm.

I live and hunt in the West and have shot deer and elk with all manner of rifles and at ranges from a little over 200 yards to a little under 500 yards. I regularly shoot an AR308 chambered in, you guessed it, .308 Win or 7.62x51mm if you prefer. I used it to harvest a mule deer near Belt, MT at 210 yards. It was a chip shot for that rifle given that it's a sub moa rifle out to at least 500 yards.

I know of a woman up here whose only hunting rifle is an AR15 chambered in 6.5mm Grendel. She uses it for White Tail or Mule deer, and of course coyotes.

 

[Nicfin36]

One of the funny things is all these places that are attacked are the little paper signs that say "no guns allowed."
Bet if the attacker knew there would be resistance they would think twice. May be not. Don't hear of mad Men shooting up a police station either though.....

Yes, exactly. How many shootings occur at gun stores, shooting ranges, or gun shows? Shooters pick soft targets, not hardened ones. Layers of security will make many think twice. A shooter that had to battle armed security, break through a controlled entry and possibly encounter armed staff waiting inside would probably go elsewhere to go out in their blaze of glory.

And for those that think "assault" rifles are the problem. First, I have several. I have never had one behave badly, and I never ever had a talk with any of them about what is right and wrong. But, seriously, if anyone thinks banning AR-15s would prevent mass shootings, that is a fallacy. First of all, most shootings are with handguns anyway. If AR-15s went poof and vanished today, a shooter would just buy something like a shotgun, which arguably could cause more carnage than an AR-15. And if shotguns, were banned, they would move on to something else like a Glock. So, in order to stop shootings, you would have to ban and somehow confiscate all firearms. And then, you know what, these people hellbent on destruction would find ways to kill people with a vehicle, gasoline bombs or whatever they can think to use.

Like it or not, the 2nd Amendment is to protect us from a tyrannical government and as much as I hate to hear about these shootings, I think the 2nd Amendment must be preserved.

 

[Clevus]

Guns are not the problem, our culture is.
The worst school massacre in US history didn’t use a gun.
Bath School Disaster- 1927

Bath School disaster - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[radas]

lol wait do you actually believe this?
Because the government has, like, jets, and aircraft carriers and stuff.... who are you overthrowing?

It's easy to overthrow the government from behind a keyboard

"Guns Should Not Be In The Hands Of The Mentally Unstable" Says Senile Man With Nukes.

While Mango Mussolini who still leaches off of the taxpayer dollar pushed for single points of entry in schools at an NRA convention despite being against fire code and would result in far more avoidable deaths.

 

[Clevus]

While Mango Mussolini who still leaches off of the taxpayer dollar pushed for single points of entry in schools at an NRA convention despite being against fire code and would result in far more avoidable deaths.

You will be pleased to know they make panic hardware for security doors. Meeting the egress requirements of the Life Safety Code is easy.
Getting teachers not to block the doors open is the hard part…

 

[jyoutz]

Overthrow the government? Sounds like you’ve been watching too many movies. The government has heavy armory, aircraft, bombs, nukes, etc… And you are going to use small arms?

 

[jyoutz]

I hunted the east side of the sierras and northern Nevada for thirty years with a 30.06 bolt gun.
Here in Michigan we have a shotgun/straight wall cartridge zone. The 12 ga slugs pound my old shoulder pretty good. I got to shoot my neighbors AR in .450 and was sold on it. It’s a lot like shooting a 20 ga shotgun. Thumper is the term used.
Plenty of people hunt with the AR platform.
I know a few out west that have gone to the .308 AR10.

But hunting isn’t the point of the Second Amendment.
Imagine you lived in an urban, or suburban locale and there were roving band of rioters, looters and marauders reeking havoc on your community. Your local law enforcement are overwhelmed, unable to respond to calls for help or ordered to stand down. Basically, 911 isn’t taking any calls. What would you want to defend your family with?

That situation has never entered my mind and is the least likely thing to worry about. The band of looters I encounter often are coyotes trying to get in the chicken pen. My existing guns work well for that. Regardless, back to my original point: an AR is most certainly not the most popular hunting rifles, even though some people use them for that.

 

[jyoutz]

Yes, exactly. How many shootings occur at gun stores, shooting ranges, or gun shows? Shooters pick soft targets, not hardened ones. Layers of security will make many think twice. A shooter that had to battle armed security, break through a controlled entry and possibly encounter armed staff waiting inside would probably go elsewhere to go out in their blaze of glory.

And for those that think "assault" rifles are the problem. First, I have several. I have never had one behave badly, and I never ever had a talk with any of them about what is right and wrong. But, seriously, if anyone thinks banning AR-15s would prevent mass shootings, that is a fallacy. First of all, most shootings are with handguns anyway. If AR-15s went poof and vanished today, a shooter would just buy something like a shotgun, which arguably could cause more carnage than an AR-15. And if shotguns, were banned, they would move on to something else like a Glock. So, in order to stop shootings, you would have to ban and somehow confiscate all firearms. And then, you know what, these people hellbent on destruction would find ways to kill people with a vehicle, gasoline bombs or whatever they can think to use.

Like it or not, the 2nd Amendment is to protect us from a tyrannical government and as much as I hate to hear about these shootings, I think the 2nd Amendment must be preserved.

We cannot purchase and own full automatic weapons without a license, yet the second amendment is preserved. There are lots of limits to legal arms, yet the second amendment continues.