Grapple, survey and a little market research...

[mikester]

I just started fab on a new twin lid grapple design. Key features
* All AR400 laser cut parts in 0.25, 0.131 and 0.375 inch thickness
* 8 inch tine spacing, bottom tines are about 32 inches deep on the inside dimension, jaws open about 39 inches, overall about 68 inch width
* Designed to handle either 3 or 2.5 inch utility cylinders with 8 inch stroke
* finished weight estimated 750 lbs using 1/4 inch inner tines and 3/8 grapple
* 10,000+ lbs design load capable for use on SS or CTL, this design is to be tough yet light weight, great for my M59's ~4,000lbs lift capacity
* I've tweaked the design to allow me to grab and pull logs from the ends, pick/grab smaller 6 inch diameter rocks, grab odd shaped items like root balls and large branched logs, be able to rake the ground to pick up small branches, a larger base fork to make hauling firewood logs easier and to be able to grab more brush in one bite
* grease-able protected pins that are locked in place with retaining bolts

First image shows a 3D rendering. Second image shows the flat pack of parts. Third image shows the initial layout for welding. Fourth image shows my old single lid root grapple I bought which was heavy and designed using 1/2 inch mild steel.

Why am I making this?

I disliked my old single lid grapple as it seemed like I was constantly fixing it. The grapple struggled with large rocks and grabbing big bundles of logs. I wanted to upgrade my heavy single lid grapple for a twin lid design that is stronger and lighter. I can't find an OEM unit I want in stock and I've been quoted CDN$6K to $6.5K on a new one wth a 8 to 12 month wait list. I will fabricate this one new for about 2/3 the cost or about the price of a beat up used one that I've been finding online.



Here's the market research bit..

How many users would want to fab their own grapples if they could select and buy all the components and have it shipped as a flat pack kit? The laser cut parts are the hard to get items. Stuff like structural tubing, fittings and cylinders are better sourced locally instead of shipping parts from Canada that I get out of the US. I focus on locally sourced materials. My laser shop takes about a week to cut parts for me and finish is pretty good. Shipping would be on a 32~36 inch pallet shrink wrapped with total weight of the flat pack parts about 450 lbs for what you see in the image above.

My thinking is that there are probably guys like me who wouldn't mind an ikea approach to grapple attachments. I keep seeing all this cheap sh*t imported stuff out of china with poor designs, crappy welds and thick globs of high hide paint and think no, I don't want to waste more time fixing someone else's problems. Bite the bullet, do it now and make it the way I want it. If I could find the parts I want online and buy them I would - but I can't find them.

Obviously buyers need to have some skills and tools at hand to do some welding/fitting/grinding etc. Price is always the question. Shipping LTL from Canada isn't cheap so the more I can fit on a small pallet the better. Steel prices are out of this world at the moment, however, I can get 10 sets of parts cut cheaper than one offs. Economies of scale blah blah blah.

Fill in the survey!

 

[The Evil Twin]

It's an interesting concept. For me, it would depend a lot on the price point. Essentially,, how much does my major save me?

 

[cthomas]

One issue I see the the weight of you design. At 750 lbs that is half of what I feel comfortable lifting and moving with my LX2610.

 

[rc51stierhoff]

For several of my garden implements, I could not buy just the materials for the price that EA ships to my door. Those are more basic weldments than a grapple, but unless you can buy the material in sheets and have some use for the scrap it’s hard for individual to get the material for same a someone that buys in volume. Price wise it’s a tough call. On the quality and ability to built to your preference, I think that is the value of doing yourself…hard to put a price on that.

 

[D2Cat]

Mikester, the weight of materials for your specific grapple would likely be too heavy for smaller equipment. I like the concept. Even if someone didn't feel comfortable welding up the components they could hire that out and still have a quality grapple, quicker and less cost.

Three or four years ago North Idaho Wolfman had a couple grapples available in "kit" form. I imagine he has some helpful ideas.

 

[mikester]

Mikester, the weight of materials for your specific grapple would likely be too heavy for smaller equipment. I like the concept. Even if someone didn't feel comfortable welding up the components they could hire that out and still have a quality grapple, quicker and less cost.

Three or four years ago North Idaho Wolfman had a couple grapples available in "kit" form. I imagine he has some helpful ideas.

Keep in mind I've designed this particular grapple for my M59 which weighs close to 10,000lbs with cab and BH. This particular grapple could also be used on a SS or CTL. This would be way overkill for a SCUT. I've been digging out root balls that are between 2,000 to 4,000 lbs - much heavier than than a SCUT.

If I were doing this for a SCUT I'd probably go to 3/16 thickness on the tines and webs and 1/4 on the structural tube. I'd also use less tines spacing them farther apart. You also don't need twin lids on a SCUT. You'd probably want something in the under 400 lbs range assembled.

The concept would be able to choose your tine/parts thickness according to your wants/needs.

 

[Elliott in GA]

You should add an Already Own A Grapple choice to your survey.

 

[D2Cat]

You should add an Already Own A Grapple choice to your survey.

The question was:
Would you consider a DIY grapple kit - flat pack weld it yourself?

 

[Elliott in GA]

The question was:
Would you consider a DIY grapple kit - flat pack weld it yourself?

I am vindicated; he added the choice.

I just thought that he should have an option that included this why - like some of the other selections. The survey was not simply yes or no.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

A guy like me would definitely consider it, if I had a tractor that big.


I love welding and welding projects. The act of welding is the "fun part" of any project for me. Cutting things out is a "necessary evil" (however it's a little better now that I have a plasma cutter....that thing is cool)

The fact that it's "pre cut" and customizable and it's basically just an "all welding project", would be a big bonus for me.

But, I already have one so.....


Edit: I am planning on making a landscape rake, and after pricing it out, I won't "save" anything. It might even cost a few bucks more than buying it pre-made; So I'm probably the "exception to the rule."

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Obviously a tad heavy for my BX23S but the 'kit koncept' is nice just might not be profitable.
Weight is a big factor and perhaps it all could be cut from 3/16" material ? If so, you also can 'nest' the parts for minimal waste. 'Computers' generally do that nowadays, 3 decades ago I asked the fabshop what size the stock plates wee and then 'tweaked' my energy control panels for just a sliver of waste. YOU buy a whole sheet, pay for product AND waste. Something to consider..
query. Can you reduce weight by putting holes into the tines? Look at them as 'trusses' not 'flat bars of steel'. You have a lot of tines, so saving even 5# a tine adds up fast !

 

[Daferris]

A guy like me would definitely consider it, if I had a tractor that big.


I love welding and welding projects. The act of welding is the "fun part" of any project for me. Cutting things out is a "necessary evil" (however it's a little better now that I have a plasma cutter....that thing is cool)

The fact that it's "pre cut" and customizable and it's basically just an "all welding project", would be a big bonus for me.

But, I already have one so.....


Edit: I am planning on making a landscape rake, and after pricing it out, I won't "save" anything. It might even cost a few bucks more than buying it pre-made; So I'm probably the "exception to the rule."

Agree! building stuff is fun but given what it costs to buy steel for a project like a rake around here in Mid-Michigan it's the same or cheaper to just buy one pre-made.

 

[mikester]

Obviously a tad heavy for my BX23S but the 'kit koncept' is nice just might not be profitable.
Weight is a big factor and perhaps it all could be cut from 3/16" material ? If so, you also can 'nest' the parts for minimal waste. 'Computers' generally do that nowadays, 3 decades ago I asked the fabshop what size the stock plates wee and then 'tweaked' my energy control panels for just a sliver of waste. YOU buy a whole sheet, pay for product AND waste. Something to consider..
query. Can you reduce weight by putting holes into the tines? Look at them as 'trusses' not 'flat bars of steel'. You have a lot of tines, so saving even 5# a tine adds up fast !

Yes cutting holes in the forks reduces weight. Cutting costs are by the profile inch so more cuts means higher price.

 

[Yooper]

Another thing to consider is the welding of the AR 400 steel. It is not very forgiving. Preheat and weld with low hydrogen filler followed by a slow cool is the proper procedure. You would/should include instructions with your kit or face an onslaught of unhappy customers when the welds start cracking. Just my .02

 

[Showmedata]

Answer: sorta.
I've bought flat-pack weld-yourself stuff before. But I have very particular design considerations I want in a grapple, which none on the market satisfy (including yours).

I have designed a grapple for myself to have contract-cut, but not pulled the trigger on ordering the steel. I haven't convinced myself that I'll get the value out of it and have enough other projects of higher priority.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Agree! building stuff is fun but given what it costs to buy steel for a project like a rake around here in Mid-Michigan it's the same or cheaper to just buy one pre-made.

I'm with you on that. 100%

It might be more of a "I want to build it" sort of project.

Tractor supply has them all day long for hundreds less than I can make it for.....

However Sir......hahaha.........The Finance Committee does not shop for landscape rakes so this is exactly what I tell the Finance Committee on why I "needed" my TIG welder, and "needed" my plasma cutter, and "needed" my hoist, and "needed" my (insert expensive tool here).......

For instance, a Wilson Combat 1911 is a must have self defense tool; after all, we have small children to defend and .....It's difficult to argue with the fact that if you or your child is in a "Life and Death" situation you NEED the best equipment money can buy to protect them!!!!!!

Simple as that..

 

[mcmxi]

I bought a Jeep TJ roll cage kit from Poison Spyder about 6 years ago. It's a CrMo DOM tube kit, laser notched, really nice bends etc. That kit was a good option for me since I didn't and still don't have a way to make such nice bends in 1-1/2" CrMo DOM tubing.

I'd never buy a DIY grapple kit since I could make a grapple myself if I really wanted to. There's nothing special about the parts other than the grade of steel. Regardless, the ship already sailed and I bought a grapple three years ago.

 

[Smokeydog]

The OP certainly makes good stuff.

Have similar 30+ year old skidsteer grapple currently on our M59. When I first saw that option in a magazine I bought one. Had to convert my tractor to ssqa to use with a Bob-tach yoke. Has bypass tines. Been a game changer on our farm.

Have a wicked grapple for B26. Perfect for that size. Tine tips touch. Lot of tab and slot construction with their equipment to make it easier to locate pieces, weld and hold dimensions.

Currently not looking for a grapple or know the current costs.

There is a lot of skill building a large weldment. I’ve done enough to known I’m still learning. I’ve bought several tab n slot welding jigs kits saving money.

 

[will721]

I'll chime in with yes, depending on weight and price point. Your design is quite heavy and while that is great for most people including yourself it wouldn't work for me.

But that's fine, nothing wrong with it. However I'd recommend doing more market research outside of this forum. It would be better to see the sales figures of the different tractor manufacturer and what size tractor they sell the most. That tells you the overall market, then talk to dealerships and see what size grapple they are moving the most of, and that gives you your target. Just because your design works for you by no means makes it profitable if there isn't a market large enough for a grapple that size.

The vast majority of the market, also cannot weld. Even if half the guys I've met in my industry claim they can... Fewer actually have a welder at home. So marketing just BIY kits might not necessarily be profitable either, but as I haven't seen anyone else doing it, mabey no way of knowing? Just my $.02 on the subject.

But as for the initial question, I can weld, have a welder, like the design, will be in the market for a grapple next year, and love to play with things like that. So in a way I would be atleast in part your target market. However weight is the core issue with my LX, so what I am specifically looking for is the strongest, lightest, preferably dual lid grapple on the market. While my labor is free because I'd consider assembly entertaining that would be a good deal of hood time and materials to assemble. Plus paint/powder coat is not free and more labor on top. So it would need to be priced competitively. If it were priced the same or better yet cheaper than assembled units while meeting the rest critia they lack it would be at the top of my list.

 

[CaptPat]

Looks nice, but I don't weld and it's a bit much for my tractor.