Ford Lightning all Electric Truck

[Deleted member 47704]

Hybrids, by their nature are 'special'. Depending on who cut the code, the engine comes on to 'assist' or 'replace' the battery pack where not only 'capacity' is a factor but outside air temperature. Spent a few dayze looking at the 'infernals' of the Ford hybrid few years ago, not everyone's 'cup of tea' and really some of the convuluted code made me wonder if a commitee of clowns programmed it.
I spent a decade designing remote control energy managment systems, 3 decades ago. Back then NO ittybitty microcomputers, no SMT,no internet. Used discrete 4000 CMOS to get current levels lower than 10ma yet still communicate over 15 miles of copper wire. Battery management accounted for probably 60% of the overall design time. I get daily info of today's technology, on the chip level, not premade boards or systems, parts as a designer I'd use to design the system. Is the 'tech' good, yes. Is it great , NO.
Just had my 35 year old furnace replaced. Old skool electronics, aka no 'computer', funace was 96% eff at install, was 92% eff last year.yeah, I monitored the unit. The new unit, with fancy 'computer' in it is 95% eff.
So, not a real improvement.
As for abusing the packs , not really possible, unless the owner 'recodes' the computer in the charger, something a seriously doubt most( if any ?) can do. Also a pickup with 500+ HP , IS a HOTROD. There is zero need for than amount of power in a pickup with a 5'6" box.

oh don't worry the government is going to governor your car.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

they use to do that with semis at one time.....

 

[WFM]

I could read this thread a 100 times and Never understand why anyone would buy an electric anything. Maine is a small state compared to the rest of the USA and we need to drive six hours up north to go atv'ing or snowmobiling. And do that in a electric truck ? I've been to alot of states and South Dekota I remember driving five hours seeing nothing but corn and tractors. Nothing else. Not stores or gas stations. So if your traveling in an electric car ??
I have a family member in New Hampshire that travels from Manchester NH to Auburn Me to see his parents in his Tesla. On the way back he needs to stop in Kittery Me for 45 minutes to recharge. No *&^t. I think his trip is 125 miles one way. Its just ridiculous. The goverment keeps telling people over end over this is a great thing and people are stupid enough to jump on board and think Oh this is great. MotorWeek the car show did a electric car comparision of three cars and how you travel across the great state of Maryland.(one of our smallest states ) They started at one side and fully charged and started driving. It took them 12 hours to drive across Maryland in electric cars. Stopping at campgrounds paying the $30. fee to charge(campsite fee) and then continuing on. A five hour trip or less in a gas car. This makes sense to anyone reading this ? People here in the USA might of just seen the huge traffic jam on I95 in Virgina ? Twelve hours stuck in the snowstorm. Can you imagine if all these car and trucks were electric.

 

[Bmyers]

I could read this thread a 100 times and Never understand why anyone would buy an electric anything. Maine is a small state compared to the rest of the USA and we need to drive six hours up north to go atv'ing or snowmobiling. And do that in a electric truck ? I've been to alot of states and South Dekota I remember driving five hours seeing nothing but corn and tractors. Nothing else. Not stores or gas stations. So if your traveling in an electric car ??
I have a family member in New Hampshire that travels from Manchester NH to Auburn Me to see his parents in his Tesla. On the way back he needs to stop in Kittery Me for 45 minutes to recharge. No *&^t. I think his trip is 125 miles one way. Its just ridiculous. The goverment keeps telling people over end over this is a great thing and people are stupid enough to jump on board and think Oh this is great. MotorWeek the car show did a electric car comparision of three cars and how you travel across the great state of Maryland.(one of our smallest states ) They started at one side and fully charged and started driving. It took them 12 hours to drive across Maryland in electric cars. Stopping at campgrounds paying the $30. fee to charge(campsite fee) and then continuing on. A five hour trip or less in a gas car. This makes sense to anyone reading this ? People here in the USA might of just seen the huge traffic jam on I95 in Virgina ? Twelve hours stuck in the snowstorm. Can you imagine if all these car and trucks were electric.

Like yourself, I have evaluated our driving habits/needs and not sure that an electric care would be worth it. I guess I could by one for my wife to drive back and forth to work (she drives about 3 miles one way), but to meet our other needs, the current electric vehicles don't have the range to meet our needs and the additional time required to recharge is so much greater than just pulling up to a pump.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

re: The government keeps telling people over end over this is a great thing and people are stupid enough to jump on board


Therein lies the FIRST problem... Get a room full of people, start chanting '4+5=10' for 1/2 hr nonstop. Pause, then yell out 'Quick, what's 4+5"....... yeah, people are that easily con..vinced !!

re: recharges. Those stops at campgrounds were to 'see the local sights', the 'topups' were just a 'bonus'...

The big problem is while it sounds 'good', everyone driving 'clean', quiet vehicles.. REALITY is totally different.

 

[lynnmor]

I live in an area that generates considerable electricity to send to cities in other states. We count for nothing in the big scheme of things. We have large dams that effectively killed off species of fish and they are now full of sludge from runoff and will need replaced, but they don't make enough Kubotas to remove and dispose of all the sludge. We have power generated from methane emitting from the landfills serving those large cities. We have power generated by turbines running on diesel fuel and natural gas. We have trash burners powered by the trash from large cities. We have a pump storage facility destroying a large portion of land. We have a coal powered plant. We also have nuclear plants, one of which started to melt down. There are wind turbines sitting atop one of those landfill mountains. With all of that, there are considerable transmission lines criss-crossing the land, tying it all together while destroying land and views. Of course the cities can't have any of this, they need to keep it out in the farmland and brag how green they are while driving their electric vehicles.

 

[ACDII]

re: The government keeps telling people over end over this is a great thing and people are stupid enough to jump on board


Therein lies the FIRST problem... Get a room full of people, start chanting '4+5=10' for 1/2 hr nonstop. Pause, then yell out 'Quick, what's 4+5"....... yeah, people are that easily con..vinced !!

re: recharges. Those stops at campgrounds were to 'see the local sights', the 'topups' were just a 'bonus'...

The big problem is while it sounds 'good', everyone driving 'clean', quiet vehicles.. REALITY is totally different.

100% On TARGET! I mean, they fooled everyone into wearing masks that don't do a damned thing to stop a virus, and finally admitted it this week. They fooled everyone into thinking the Vaccine will stop the spread and now there is Omicron and EVERYONE will get it regardless if you got the shot or not. I looked up the definition of vaccine. It is to make you immune to whatever it is the vaccine is made for, you know, like Measles and Polio. There is no partial you got Polio or measles if you got vaccinated, you didn't get it, period. You ARE getting it even with the shots, so it is no more effective than the annual flu shots, yet... they got John Q Public believing in it!

You hit the nail on the head, the more they push it as a "green" agenda, the more people will believe it. I like saving money on gas and when I was putting a lot of miles a day on, it was nice having a Hybrid. Would be darn cool to own a Lightning too, but not at $41,000 more than what my current truck cost! I don't use THAT much gas. Thats 11,714 gallons of gas @ $3.50 a gallon! I would have to drive 234,280 miles to use up that much fuel before it started paying back.

 

[Deleted member 47704]

My commute is so short that with a solar charger on the roof I would never have to plug it in. But you can't buy an electric car for $16,000 they are much more. there are all kinds of problems with them.
EVs are a bandaid for a problem that could be addressed with birth control.

 

[ZTMAN]

I never thought I would own an EV, but I am getting the Lightning PRO. In essence what they call a work truck but has a lot of features of upper trim models. Optioned price was $45k. Current federal tax credit is $7,500. Add state tax credit on top of that. Pretty good bargain in my eyes for a full size crew.

Not going to be my long trip vehicle, but I make two or three 70 mile round trips per week to my hunting camp.

A good video just came out today explaining the charging options for the Lightning. Worth the watch if you have any interest in this truck

 

[Deleted member 47704]

Would you have bought it if they didn't give you the tax credit?

 

[ZTMAN]

Would you have bought it if they didn't give you the tax credit?

The short answer, NO

 

[lugbolt]

If you think EV's are a "good idea", you can prepare yourself and educate yourself how they work. Go buy an electric golf cart and use it for a few years. You will quickly understand why EV's have their place and why they will never replace a gas or diesel engine.

I know golf cars are a different animal, but the basic principles are identical--meaning you have to charge it, the charge doesn't last, the range is dependent on the wind, terrain, temperature, loading, charging time & percentage of charge (SOC), the batteries don't last forever, they are heavy and expensive when it comes time to replace, the EV car is much heavier than gas counterpart, which also affects how long a charge lasts, there are so many things that an EV can't do the same as a gas vehicle that it is not even funny and I can't even begin to compare--and those are just the basics. There is a lot more to it.

But EV's are "simpler" in design and supposedly good for the environment. There's no way to know that for sure until they've been on the market for 50+ years. Even at 50+ years I have my doubts that any climate change would be reversed, but that's just my opinion and I probably outta keep it to myself.

On the Lightning. I had a 2003 Lightning. #888 of 4270. DSG, for those that know these trucks you know what DSG is. Good truck that I drove everywhere. Coast to coast. Never had much trouble out of it and I maintained it religiously. In 2013 I moved and the Lightning wasn't gonna cut it as far as towing the race car trailer, so I traded it for a 2003 F-250 diesel (straight trade) which I still own and still drive. Trust me when I say, the EV lightning will never (EVER!!) be the 2nd gen Lightning no matter how fast it is or how much it can tow, it's still not the same. If you've ever driven a 2G Lightning you know what I'm talking about. And for that, I cannot believe Ford put the Lightning badge on this new F-150.

 

[ZTMAN]

I do not disagree with you Lugbolt. I am not a tree hugger but I think EVs have their place.
I ordered the Lightning with a standard range battery which is all the range I need for the purpose I intend to use.
If I need more range, I have a ICE F150 that has a 700 mi range. Lightning will be used for around town and the two to three trips each week that I make to my camp to mess around on the tractor.

The net cost will be below $40k, which I think is a bargain for a new crew cab 4wd truck with a rear locker. Fuel savings for me will be about $1k per year.

Plus it has a frunk. Gotta love that.

 

[ACDII]

The "Green" Approach, what they overlook in all scenarios, is where the raw material for the batteries comes from, as well as the environmental damage the mining processes cause. Much like the manufacture of wind towers and Solar panels, it is all carbon positive to manufacture. 1.5 tons of CO2 per ton of steel just to produce the slab, then further processing to make it into the steel used to build the tower creates even more CO2. Towers don't scrub CO2 from the air, that CO2 is already up there from it's manufacture, something the wind farm proponents fail to grasp. So what if the tower doesn't make CO2 when it produces electricity (actually it does, but in very small amounts), the damage is already done during its production.

IOW there is NO such thing as Green Energy.

Lithium Mining

Because lithium’s concentration in ore at Thacker Pass runs as low as two-tenths of one percent, producing one ton of the stuff for use by society entails strip mining and processing as much as 500 tons of earth. Over a single year, producing 60,000 tons of lithium at the site could mean digging up as much as 20 to 30 million tons of earth, more than the annual amount of earth dug up to produce all coal output of all but seven or eight U.S. states.


Removing the lithium from the ore is done with the industrial economy’s dissolver of choice, the notoriously corrosive and toxic sulfuric acid. The developer, Canada-based, China-backed Lithium Americas Corp., plans to acidify molten sulfur on site, trucking in the stuff from oil refineries. Hauling the material will require 75 tractor-trailer loads a day, according to Falk and Wilbert — every one of them running on fossil fuels.

A lot of that article though focuses on changing how the public lives by reducing their travels, having smaller homes, no AC, living in tightly packed urban areas and eliminating travel. Good luck with that! This is 'Merica Baby, thats what we do!

 

[Deleted member 47704]

If you think EV's are a "good idea", you can prepare yourself and educate yourself how they work. Go buy an electric golf cart and use it for a few years. You will quickly understand why EV's have their place and why they will never replace a gas or diesel engine.

I know golf cars are a different animal, but the basic principles are identical--meaning you have to charge it, the charge doesn't last, the range is dependent on the wind, terrain, temperature, loading, charging time & percentage of charge (SOC), the batteries don't last forever, they are heavy and expensive when it comes time to replace, the EV car is much heavier than gas counterpart, which also affects how long a charge lasts, there are so many things that an EV can't do the same as a gas vehicle that it is not even funny and I can't even begin to compare--and those are just the basics. There is a lot more to it.

But EV's are "simpler" in design and supposedly good for the environment. There's no way to know that for sure until they've been on the market for 50+ years. Even at 50+ years I have my doubts that any climate change would be reversed, but that's just my opinion and I probably outta keep it to myself.

On the Lightning. I had a 2003 Lightning. #888 of 4270. DSG, for those that know these trucks you know what DSG is. Good truck that I drove everywhere. Coast to coast. Never had much trouble out of it and I maintained it religiously. In 2013 I moved and the Lightning wasn't gonna cut it as far as towing the race car trailer, so I traded it for a 2003 F-250 diesel (straight trade) which I still own and still drive. Trust me when I say, the EV lightning will never (EVER!!) be the 2nd gen Lightning no matter how fast it is or how much it can tow, it's still not the same. If you've ever driven a 2G Lightning you know what I'm talking about. And for that, I cannot believe Ford put the Lightning badge on this new F-150.

Our electric fork needs a new battery. Big bucks and where will it go? not all of it is recyclable.
Have to charge it add water etc.
You don't have as fine control with it as a gas forklift. The forks lift at 2 speeds, the "throttle" is not as controllable.
They claim electrics are better for inside operations but this thing leaves a trail of battery fumes and ozone whereever it goes.

 

[Chanceywd]

I could read this thread a 100 times and Never understand why anyone would buy an electric anything. Maine is a small state compared to the rest of the USA and we need to drive six hours up north to go atv'ing or snowmobiling. And do that in a electric truck ? I've been to alot of states and South Dekota I remember driving five hours seeing nothing but corn and tractors. Nothing else. Not stores or gas stations. So if your traveling in an electric car ??
I have a family member in New Hampshire that travels from Manchester NH to Auburn Me to see his parents in his Tesla. On the way back he needs to stop in Kittery Me for 45 minutes to recharge. No *&^t. I think his trip is 125 miles one way. Its just ridiculous. The goverment keeps telling people over end over this is a great thing and people are stupid enough to jump on board and think Oh this is great. MotorWeek the car show did a electric car comparision of three cars and how you travel across the great state of Maryland.(one of our smallest states ) They started at one side and fully charged and started driving. It took them 12 hours to drive across Maryland in electric cars. Stopping at campgrounds paying the $30. fee to charge(campsite fee) and then continuing on. A five hour trip or less in a gas car. This makes sense to anyone reading this ? People here in the USA might of just seen the huge traffic jam on I95 in Virgina ? Twelve hours stuck in the snowstorm. Can you imagine if all these car and trucks were electric.

And if all the emergency vehicles responding were electric too? How a bout the plows if electric, if there is more snow than anticipated and not enough charge for them to do the route.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

re: You don't have as fine control with it as a gas forklift. The forks lift at 2 speeds, the "throttle" is not as controllable.

Sadly that's a design/manufacturing problem. It IS possible to get very fine lift and drive from ANY 'battery powered' device. It's not 'rocket science', just good old 'electrical engineering'. Super EASY with even a $2 computer chip.

I find it terrible that the only EV pickups are huge 4 door rides with baby boxes. Now IF someone comes out with a REAL pickup, I'll be interested.

 

[lugbolt]

the current electric vehicles don't have the range to meet our needs and the additional time required to recharge is so much greater than just pulling up to a pump.

so what does a liberal government do about that? Find way(s) to make gas less affordable, insurance higher, personal property tax increases, fuel tax increases, TT&L increases for ICE's, etc. Notice, I didn't say they can do this directly, rather INdirectly, and they've done it in the past with many things. Guns for one. The more something is regulated the more it costs. The more it costs the more money they get, and people are less likely to purchase. And then when election time comes, they can turn it around and say "we generated enough income to balance the budget-which nobody has done since [whenever].

I don't consider this a political issue, rather the truth. Ban me if that makes ya happy I'm fine with it.

 

[Deleted member 47704]

re: You don't have as fine control with it as a gas forklift. The forks lift at 2 speeds, the "throttle" is not as controllable.

Sadly that's a design/manufacturing problem. It IS possible to get very fine lift and drive from ANY 'battery powered' device. It's not 'rocket science', just good old 'electrical engineering'. Super EASY with even a $2 computer chip.

I find it terrible that the only EV pickups are huge 4 door rides with baby boxes. Now IF someone comes out with a REAL pickup, I'll be interested.

I'm not retro fitting it, The hydraulic pump motor for the forks doesn't put out full pressure unless its running full speed, which means you can't lift at slow speeds It doesn't lift unless you have the stick back. A retro fit would be a redesign on the whole system. Its a 4000lb capacity rated but lifts 6000lb machines.
It wasn't meant for rigging but for warehouse duty, which it does well.
Cheaper to put a starter in the gas fork lift for rigging.

They are only going to build cowboy cadillacs the chances for a real pick up (EV) is about as good as a manual trans in a pick up.

 

[lugbolt]

When you get your electrified F150 tell us what the real range is.

And don't be like those Tesla guys saying "I get 500 miles"--because most of them (in this area) do not, rather they lie about it so they can feel better about their expensive investment.

"range" in EV industry is under ideal conditions. Meaning no wind, no hills, no loading, 200lb driver (no passengers, etc) headlights and tail lights off, no radio playing, basically anything that uses electricity is going to reduce range, hills, loading, wind, weather, it goes on and on

I've been in the EV industry for over a decade and the #1 complaint is this. "There must be something wrong because y'all said the range is 80 miles and I can't get 10!" Ideal conditions are never reality.

Did you know. If you plan on letting your Lithium-equipped EV sit for over a month, you are supposed to discharge the battery to at least 60% before storage? Look into it. Not too much of an issue for most CARS because they get used, but there is an issue with UTV's and that sort, that often sit during the summer. Temperature can also affect the battery packs.

If you're in your truck and decide to pull your buddy out of a ditch, you tie up a rope (or strap/chain/whatever) and floor it and yank him out. Sometimes your gas powered truck will struggle against the torque converter and transmission. On an electric vehicle, you'll smoke the motor. Supposedly they have thermal protection but thus far, from what I've seen, it's not that effective. Again, get yourself a golf cart and play with it a couple years. I know the motor design is different on ev but the principles are identical.

Ain't too many people know how to work on them either "currently"--but that is changing. The older guys are getting out leaving us with younger "techs". That's all I'm gonna say. They learned that 2+2=5, right?

Glad you like your truck. Riddle me this. What's it cost to install a charging station at your place and how much does your electric bill go up every month? And if for some reason your charge runs low on a trip, are there places to recharge along the way or at your huntin' camp? Or do ya gotta carry a generator in the back? When it comes time to put a new battery in, what's that gonna set you back? Seriously, I am just curious as I don't know!

I refuse to call it a Lightning because of the one I had. A Lightning is a performance pickup. Similar to the "Mustang" Mach E, Ford really messed up giving it a name that was synonymous with something that, well, it really isn't. The Mach E is not a Mustang the same as a 3G Lightning is not a Lightning. A 2G lightning (99-04) was a pickup and a Mustang put together. It was as quick as a stock GT, handled almost as good, was faster in a long run, was cooler (IMO), and it had a cargo bed and had a 5000lb towing capacity. The 3G Lightning can it do all that? Seriously I don't know, can it run a 12 sec 1/4 mile off the showroom (to keep up with a Mustang GT)? Can it handle like a stock Mustang GT? Ford SVT focused on the Raptor for so long and the Lightning guys just sat there shaking their heads. Not that the Raptor was a bad truck, it was awesome for it's purpose. But it's not a Lightning and never will be, and to this day the 99-04 Lightning cannot be matched for it's versatility. Mind you, this is a STOCK (right off the showroom) model, not a modified model.