Ford Lightning all Electric Truck
- Thread starter MapleLeafFarmer
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It is interesting to follow this discussion, and having clicked on a few of the links my computer is presenting me with all kinds of EV news flashes (?). Some experiments where people set out to determine how long their battery might last if marooned in a snow storm (longer than you might expect) etc. I could maybe replace my Honda Fit with some kind of EV and get by, assuming I had money to burn. Not replacing the 2003 Silverado, that I am hoping will run until I am too crippled up to climb in the seat.
People do seem to be hearing these objections and trying to address them. Better batteries etc. Solar powered battery trailers with motor assists on each wheel to reduce towing strain on the towing vehicle. Some are quite ingenious. It will be interesting what they come up with. I'm with a previous post that birth control is an important part of a solution to energy consumption, however.
People do seem to be hearing these objections and trying to address them. Better batteries etc. Solar powered battery trailers with motor assists on each wheel to reduce towing strain on the towing vehicle. Some are quite ingenious. It will be interesting what they come up with. I'm with a previous post that birth control is an important part of a solution to energy consumption, however.
Daren Todd
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I would cringe to have to pay for a replacement battery/ batteries in one of those babies
Probably be at least a third of what you paid for the vehicle up front.GreensvilleJay
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re: There is no replacement for displacement
respectfully I disagree. When I replaced the 258-6 with a304-8 in my '73 CJ-5 , I LOST big !
Sure the V-8 got the JEEP '0-60' faster but SUCKED at snowplowing and mudding.
BTW, Ford F150 battery will be $12,000 + taxes and 'disposal fee' and install fee.... figure to replace in 8 years, 2 months.
Even at $1.50 a litre, I can't use $12K worth of gas in 8 years.
respectfully I disagree. When I replaced the 258-6 with a304-8 in my '73 CJ-5 , I LOST big !
Sure the V-8 got the JEEP '0-60' faster but SUCKED at snowplowing and mudding.
BTW, Ford F150 battery will be $12,000 + taxes and 'disposal fee' and install fee.... figure to replace in 8 years, 2 months.
Even at $1.50 a litre, I can't use $12K worth of gas in 8 years.
You might use that much fuel...
If your truck averages 15l/100km, and at $1.50/L, that means you will have spent $12,000 on fuel by the time you reach 53,333km. Most truck owners will exceed that distance in 8 years, easily.
Now, this does not count the cost of electricity to charge your EV. Generally it is more cost effective than gasoline (diesel), but those numbers can vary a lot depending on region and electricity time of use billing.
There is no simple formula to see if replacing the battery is cost effective or not. I guess it depends on how long you plan to run the EV. If you run it into the ground in 12-15 years, then replacing the battery is cheaper than buying a new EV. If you like to trade in every 5 to 7 years, you lose on the battery "depreciation" value.
New Lightning 0-60 times are reported to be 4.5 seconds. Old Lightning 0-60 was 5.5 seconds. With EV you get instant FULL Torque from 0 RPM, so traction is the key. Anyone who has watched a Tesla go from a stop to WOT would know, they are Freaking FAST! The new F150 Lightning would be no different.
Claiming a 300 mile range is a bit high, but it does have a 10K towing capacity.
The 2017 Raptor was faster than the older Lightning too, and the new Lightning is even faster. It is said to have 563 HP and 775 Torque with the extended range pack. It also has independent rear suspension, which improves handling. The BSM does have speed limiters to prevent overheating the pack, so 1/4 mile times are reduced, but if you want to drag race, then stick with gas. You could figure out how to bypass the BSM and get crazy 1/4 mile times, but then you risk destroying the battery.
As for the battery replacement. Before VID I drove 32K miles a year, 120 miles RT a day 5 days a week, putting 250K miles on in 8 years. Since the pack is rated at 300K miles, I think a $12K replacement, which may be less in 8 years as technology improves, will be worth it. After all a new transmission alone is $4500, and a new engine is close to $10K. By 300K the truck is pretty much worn out too and starts to become a maintenance whore regardless what power it uses.
Claiming a 300 mile range is a bit high, but it does have a 10K towing capacity.
The 2017 Raptor was faster than the older Lightning too, and the new Lightning is even faster. It is said to have 563 HP and 775 Torque with the extended range pack. It also has independent rear suspension, which improves handling. The BSM does have speed limiters to prevent overheating the pack, so 1/4 mile times are reduced, but if you want to drag race, then stick with gas. You could figure out how to bypass the BSM and get crazy 1/4 mile times, but then you risk destroying the battery.
As for the battery replacement. Before VID I drove 32K miles a year, 120 miles RT a day 5 days a week, putting 250K miles on in 8 years. Since the pack is rated at 300K miles, I think a $12K replacement, which may be less in 8 years as technology improves, will be worth it. After all a new transmission alone is $4500, and a new engine is close to $10K. By 300K the truck is pretty much worn out too and starts to become a maintenance whore regardless what power it uses.
GreensvilleJay
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well 0-60 numbers never really impressed me. Stock, cheap jap bikes will always beat any car....
you'll never get 300 mile range pulling a 10K load, or 5K or even 4 people and 6 bags of groceries. Oh yeah you NEED the upgraded battery pack..have to buy a whole 'package' to get it
battery price will NOT go down(Ford still won't confirm to me ,the real price yet...),just look at Li-ION packs for drills and such....MILLIONS of them made every year,for years and they've NOT gotten cheap
The big issue is TRUE battery life as NO 'simulation' can accurately mimic the 'real world',so the engineer's are guestimating....One interesting tidbit is they don't subtract the power used to warm the battery,before it can be used, kinda like not running the AC or seat warmers or heater.... stuff we all use during the NORMAL use of driving.....
I still can't see any contractor or small businessman buying one of them... 5.5 box is a joke and you can't get into the box from the side either !
you'll never get 300 mile range pulling a 10K load, or 5K or even 4 people and 6 bags of groceries. Oh yeah you NEED the upgraded battery pack..have to buy a whole 'package' to get it
battery price will NOT go down(Ford still won't confirm to me ,the real price yet...),just look at Li-ION packs for drills and such....MILLIONS of them made every year,for years and they've NOT gotten cheap
The big issue is TRUE battery life as NO 'simulation' can accurately mimic the 'real world',so the engineer's are guestimating....One interesting tidbit is they don't subtract the power used to warm the battery,before it can be used, kinda like not running the AC or seat warmers or heater.... stuff we all use during the NORMAL use of driving.....
I still can't see any contractor or small businessman buying one of them... 5.5 box is a joke and you can't get into the box from the side either !
Here is some experience in California about life with an EV. The lady is a former small town mayor.
Mine was bone stock. 2003. ZERO mods! Not even an air filter!
Memphis 1/4 mi was 13.43 at 106 with a DA of 540'. This was on radials with a hint of tire spin at the hit, so I feel like it had another half tenth in it, mph wouldn't be affected much if any at all. After racing all day (and winning my class), I hooked it back up to the race car and hauled it home. On one and a half tanks of fuel (roughly 150 mi to the track and 150 back).
13.4 isn't impressive in the 1/4. But that's what it ran best time. I dialed in 13.51 and broke out on that run, bought back in and won the event. Race car broke during T&T so I just drove the truck.
My friend was also there, he had an 01. Mods. Pulleys, tune, and air intake and exhaust. His ran 12.24/119. His had over 400,000 miles on it when he sold it. I think 409,000 as I recall. Mine was I think around 252,000. Only things I ever did to it was upper and lower ball joints, and maintenance. And tires. Great truck and I used it as a truck and as a Mustang. When I went to the dealership, I went to buy a then-new 2005 Mustang GT (4.6L). The more I looked, the more I liked the Harley F-250 they had on the used lot. 6.0L. I walked over to it before the salespeople pounced and behind it sat the lightning. Since my friend had his 2001, and I have driven/raced it many, many times I was familiar. We struck a deal, traded my old F-150 off and drove home in the nicest vehicle I've ever owned
No replacement for displacement? Yeah there is. Forced. induction.
on the instant torque. It depends on how they have the MCU set up. Yeah you can mash it full pedal in .02 second but that doesn't mean you get full torque, it's programming is the key. Again, get you a golf cart and get broken in on EV's. You'll find out that they aren't all that the car companies advertise them to be. Tesla is no different, you have to have some work done to make a Plaid run like you see on TV and Youtube. Still quick in stock as-delivered mode, but they don't really come alive until some things are done. Plus, it's well north of $100,000. It better be quick for that.
Lastly, I know this might sound old school but when was the last time a Plaid owner said "man that thing sounds good" after clicking off a 9 second pass. Part of the allure of automotive enthusiasts is the senses. The smells of Methanol and/or Nitro. The feel, vibration of all 8 cylinders. And the sound. No electric will ever match the sound of a big cubic inch high RPM high compression methanol or nitro burning big block--EVER. Can Garlits make an electric dragster fast? Absolutely! Can it bring thousands of fans to their feet covering their ears? From my own experience, BORING! One can say a 9 second 1/4 mile is not boring, well if you do what I did for the last 30 years, yeah it really is.
Memphis 1/4 mi was 13.43 at 106 with a DA of 540'. This was on radials with a hint of tire spin at the hit, so I feel like it had another half tenth in it, mph wouldn't be affected much if any at all. After racing all day (and winning my class), I hooked it back up to the race car and hauled it home. On one and a half tanks of fuel (roughly 150 mi to the track and 150 back).
13.4 isn't impressive in the 1/4. But that's what it ran best time. I dialed in 13.51 and broke out on that run, bought back in and won the event. Race car broke during T&T so I just drove the truck.
My friend was also there, he had an 01. Mods. Pulleys, tune, and air intake and exhaust. His ran 12.24/119. His had over 400,000 miles on it when he sold it. I think 409,000 as I recall. Mine was I think around 252,000. Only things I ever did to it was upper and lower ball joints, and maintenance. And tires. Great truck and I used it as a truck and as a Mustang. When I went to the dealership, I went to buy a then-new 2005 Mustang GT (4.6L). The more I looked, the more I liked the Harley F-250 they had on the used lot. 6.0L. I walked over to it before the salespeople pounced and behind it sat the lightning. Since my friend had his 2001, and I have driven/raced it many, many times I was familiar. We struck a deal, traded my old F-150 off and drove home in the nicest vehicle I've ever owned
No replacement for displacement? Yeah there is. Forced. induction.
on the instant torque. It depends on how they have the MCU set up. Yeah you can mash it full pedal in .02 second but that doesn't mean you get full torque, it's programming is the key. Again, get you a golf cart and get broken in on EV's. You'll find out that they aren't all that the car companies advertise them to be. Tesla is no different, you have to have some work done to make a Plaid run like you see on TV and Youtube. Still quick in stock as-delivered mode, but they don't really come alive until some things are done. Plus, it's well north of $100,000. It better be quick for that.
Lastly, I know this might sound old school but when was the last time a Plaid owner said "man that thing sounds good" after clicking off a 9 second pass. Part of the allure of automotive enthusiasts is the senses. The smells of Methanol and/or Nitro. The feel, vibration of all 8 cylinders. And the sound. No electric will ever match the sound of a big cubic inch high RPM high compression methanol or nitro burning big block--EVER. Can Garlits make an electric dragster fast? Absolutely! Can it bring thousands of fans to their feet covering their ears? From my own experience, BORING! One can say a 9 second 1/4 mile is not boring, well if you do what I did for the last 30 years, yeah it really is.
On the inside they can (they can play car noises through the radio) Wouldn’t want to offend anybody outside.
Comparing a golf cart with 6v lead acid batteries, solenoids and a rheostat for speed control to a Telsa or any other LION powered EV with computer management is like comparing a rowboat to a supercarrier.
I get it you abhor EV. Deal with it, that is what the future of transportation holds for all of us. BTW not everyone GAS over 1/4 mile times. I have owned several Hybrids, and would have no issues with a Lightning, but they are WAY over priced compared to what I have now. Nothing wrong with 5.5' beds either, been getting along with one now for a good 10 years, never a want for a foot longer bed when I have a trailer that is 10' long. For any real towing, thats what I have a Superduty for, the F150 is my get around, go to work vehicle, better than an SUV, more comfortable than a car, and thats what I use it for, I can no longer sit in a car without leg and lower back pain, or I would still be driving a 2013 Fusion Hybrid, on it's original batteries too. .
I get it you abhor EV. Deal with it, that is what the future of transportation holds for all of us. BTW not everyone GAS over 1/4 mile times. I have owned several Hybrids, and would have no issues with a Lightning, but they are WAY over priced compared to what I have now. Nothing wrong with 5.5' beds either, been getting along with one now for a good 10 years, never a want for a foot longer bed when I have a trailer that is 10' long. For any real towing, thats what I have a Superduty for, the F150 is my get around, go to work vehicle, better than an SUV, more comfortable than a car, and thats what I use it for, I can no longer sit in a car without leg and lower back pain, or I would still be driving a 2013 Fusion Hybrid, on it's original batteries too. .
I don't know, I'm pretty stubborn
If I'm still alive in 30 years, I certainly don't think I'll be driving, but I'm pretty certain my tractor will still be running (on diesel of course). I believe there is a place for EV's, but with the present options and infrastructure, I don't believe it's the future for all of us.
there will likely be a day in the not too distant future we all will have no choice.
Can you see / smell / sense that your elected officials may mandate the end of the internal combustion engine?
Already some are banning gas stoves, small hp internal combustion engines, single use plastics, coal use, natural gas for heating buildings, replacement oil/gas pipelines, etc...
Is it just possible in democratic societies your elected leaders tell you (or penalize you) to the point of no choice??
Can you see / smell / sense that your elected officials may mandate the end of the internal combustion engine?
Already some are banning gas stoves, small hp internal combustion engines, single use plastics, coal use, natural gas for heating buildings, replacement oil/gas pipelines, etc...
Is it just possible in democratic societies your elected leaders tell you (or penalize you) to the point of no choice??
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GreensvilleJay
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well cheap gas AND diesel here is now $1.50 a litre, thanks to Trudeau taxes and 'World ' pricing. Too bad Canada doesn't have any gas or oil under our feet, like we used to.
When the price gets up to $1.75-$1.85 next fall, I expect to see a LOT of lightly used 4wd,4d 'pickups' for sale.
BTW if EVs are so GREAT, why is it 'they' do NOT drive them ? Not one guv dept has gone to EVs !
Got yet another article about the 'magic in the box' ( the EV electronics).Guy was over the moon cause his charging station went from 94% to 95% efficent. Having liquid cooling tubes in the electrical supply 'cord' was interesting,though not a new idea.
When the price gets up to $1.75-$1.85 next fall, I expect to see a LOT of lightly used 4wd,4d 'pickups' for sale.
BTW if EVs are so GREAT, why is it 'they' do NOT drive them ? Not one guv dept has gone to EVs !
Got yet another article about the 'magic in the box' ( the EV electronics).Guy was over the moon cause his charging station went from 94% to 95% efficent. Having liquid cooling tubes in the electrical supply 'cord' was interesting,though not a new idea.
Wait till the free ride is over and they tax the
out of electricity like liquid fuels.GreensvilleJay
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