FEL Hydro leak

[NEPA Guy]

I was tearing out the scourge of the earth (Japanese bayberry) yesterday with my FEL. Work was seemingly lightweight, went in maybe a few inches with the PBar to take up the root systems and deposited the rubbish out to a distant field.

After a few hours I smelled hydro fluid and I noticed there is a leak in the front left. I'm not sure how to fix it as I see a rubber seal popping out. I'm not sure if its just a "paint seal" or if its part of the way its made. The difficulty lies in its position and seems hard to get to.

I cant tighten it because its an elbow and has no where to turn. Its hard to get any tools in the tight spot. I'll assume I need to disconnect the FEL to work on it so its not attached to the "live" system.

Any advice on how to get at and repair the leaking area? I see they used teflon to assemble the attachments, from what I understand thats not good. Best practices? I have the liquid hydro sealant .

Thanks

 

[1970cs]

Hard to tell from the picture, it could be an o-ring style fitting which usually has a piece of metal for a back up. It could be pipe also?

Anyways drop the hose off the fitting and you could cheat and remove the pin on that end which is the base end of the cylinder and let it drop down on the tire to work on it.

Pipe thread should be sealed, nothing for o-ring or JIC

Drop loader down all the way and bleed off all pressure before removing any thing!
Also note the clock position or indexing of the fitting so you don't drop it down to line up the fitting with hose end.
Pat

 

[NEPA Guy]

OK so I'll take off the hoses from the tractor. I'll try to take the pin off to give me some room to work. Thats seems the only solution. There doesn't seem to be a place where I can disconnect the hoses where the yellow and white tape is. (last picture) If I can get the pin out and get room enough to work I'l unscrew it slowly to relieve pressure, apply some new sealant and tighten it down more in hopes it'll hold.

What I don't get is why its leaking. It seems as solid as a connection as any of the other ones. Not tight enough? Teflon break down? Excessive pressure?

 

[al m]

Pat is correct in that only pipe threads should have sealant,but don't use Teflon tape,that's a no no,use pipe dope.

 

[NEPA Guy]

Thanks will do. I'll follow up with the repair tomorrow. Any more comments are welcome.

 

[D2Cat]

It appears the fitting is lined up parallel to the cylinder so the hose coming off of the fitting lines up through the hole it needs to go through.

Maybe they used tape thinking they can get a good seal without going around another turn of the fitting, since it's a full turn or none. Might have to remove all the tape, use some pipe dope and attempt to get another full turn on the fitting to get it to line up.

 

[NEPA Guy]

D2, Should I be concerned that they used tape on all of the fittings? BH, FEL, snowblower and snowplow? I had two fail on the snowblower already and have been using the permatex hydraulic sealant for repairs.

I read how if you leave some space when applying tape, where you screw the fitting in, you can get away with it. I also read that the little bits of tape can get caught up and damage the hydraulic system?

Would it pay to redo all the fittings? At that rate would it pay to bring it to the dealer and just have them do it? Better tools...etc?

 

[D2Cat]

It's not good practice to use tape on hyd. connections simply because if some of the tape breaks loose and gets into a pump, or other components it can cause havoc. Chances are slim, but possible.

For me, I would not dis-assemble any of them just to put pipe dope on the threads. Be nice if it wasn't there, but it is. Your machine may run for 30 years and you'd never know any difference except you saw it!!

You could cause more problems taking all the joints apart then just leaving them alone.

When you take any connection apart for any reason then is the time to make the change.

The idea of not using Teflon tape is kind of like a "Board Certified" doctor telling you something. It's probably good advise, but not an absolute!

 

[RCW]

The idea of not using Teflon tape is kind of like a "Board Certified" doctor telling you something. It's probably good advise, but not an absolute!

I'll admit I've used tape on some fittings....the tape was right there and handy, and I was VERY careful about it, recognizing was 'Cat mentioned........

None of those have leaked, and I have never found pieces/parts in the system.

 

[NEPA Guy]

Thanks guys I appreciate the advice. I won’t change it unless I have to.

 

[torch]

An ORB elbow fitting should have a lock nut backing up a washer to compress the o-ring properly when the elbow is facing the desired direction.

The fitting on the bottom of the lift cylinder definitely looks like a pipe thread -- no sign of a nut or o-ring. But the picture of the leaking fitting seems to show an o-ring, as if it was an ORB fitting. I very much doubt that a cylinder would have two different joint styles on either end, and have to wonder if a previous owner jammed an ORB fitting into a NPT outlet or vice-versa. What do the fittings look like on the other arm?

 

[NEPA Guy]

It look like a paint seal. I guess they threaded it after the fact and they put it back? Or do they thread it and then paint it? I thought the dealer put it together.

1 and 2 are of the left side, 3 is the leaking one, I was able to push the rubber washer up easily with my finger. They both appear to be threaded in the hole the same amount. Does the leak happen just because the teflon seal broke or are there other factors?

Once the rain lets up I'll work on it.

 

[torch]

Looking at #3, is there any chance it's actually leaking at the hose end (appears to be JIS flare?) and spraying onto the fitting, making it look like it's leaking at the cylinder side?

 

[NEPA Guy]

Without dropping the pin, I cleaned it up and wrapped a paper towel around the bottom and left side of the the elbow. I zip tied the hose out of the way and used the FEL for 20 minutes until I started to smell the hydro fluid again.

So its not the cylinder side, or the hose running over it. It looks like the left side of the elbow where the JIS flare is. So now it could be either the JIS flare screws into the elbow or where it looks like its crimped into the JIS?

There looks like two places I could put my wrench. Closest to the elbow where it appears to be leaking and closer to the hose where it appears to be crimped.

Should I just tighten it up closest to elbow? Should I drop the pin, remove the JIS flare, and reseal it?

If its not leaking at where it meets the elbow, I see another wrench spot, can that be tightened too, or is that crimped? If its leaking from the crimp size, how is that repaired?

 

[torch]

The JIS flare is metal to metal. All you can really do is tighten it if that is the source of the leak. To do so, you tighten the flare nut right were it screws onto the elbow, not the flats on the hose. If you can get a wrench on it (perhaps a crow's foot wrench or basin wrench) then you don't need to remove the pin.

If it's leaking at the hose end of the JIS connection, all you can do is have a new fitting crimped on (if there is enough slack in the hose to cut the old fitting off), otherwise you must replace the hose.

 

[NEPA Guy]

Thanks torch,

I was able to get a wrench in there and tighten it but the entire hose started to rotate as well. Is there a way to stop the hose from rotating and just tighten it on? If I'm able to get the get a tool on on the flats where the hose is to hold it will that stop it from the hose spinning? I didn't want to force it and make it worse.

 

[Redlands]

Yes a tool on the hose to stop it spinning will help

 

[baronetm]

Use two wrenches, one to hold the flats on the compression end of the hose fitting to stop the hose from twisting and the other on the flats of the JIC swivel. You do not want to put a twist in the hose, it creates undue stress on the hose wire braid and will lead to premature hose failure.

 

[NEPA Guy]

Thanks! I'll jump on it and test it out today.