Dual axle trailer brakes question. Do I need trailer brakes?

[torch]

I agree with the desirability of trailer brakes and prefer electric trailer brakes, but...

The other day I was heading into town with an empty trailer. Wet snow made the roads slick. I was taking things easy, just barely touching the brake pedal as I slowed and turned the corner onto the on-ramp. I glanced in my right rear-view mirror and the trailer was missing! I checked my left and the trailer was swinging around beside me.

Apparently, I need an ABS electric brake controller. It was a good thing there was no oncoming traffic at that moment. I turned off the electric brake controller for the duration of that trip.

 

[winesalot]

If someone pulls out in front of me when I have the right of way and I hit them they would be at fault.

Back in the day I was towing a car with our Ford F-350 tow truck. Since we are towing customer cars and not our own trailers we never had working brakes on the towed vehicle. I was traveling 30 mph in a 30 mph zone with an overly safe following distance between me and the car in front to me. It was a beautiful summer day and some guy in a jeep with the top off pulled out in front of me trying to shoot across the road. I had zero time to react and there is no person on the planet that would assign any fault to me under any circumstance. That being said...I will never forget the the awful sound I heard while watching his head bounce off the hood of my truck while I slammed in to the side of his vehicle. Not having brakes on the towed vehicle did not play in to this collision, but my point is that even if you are not at fault something like that stays with you in a bad way. Now imagine if that happened to you and you did have time to brake but you didn't have the full braking power available to you because of a few dollars or a bad decision.

 

[dtrojcak]

If someone pulls out in front of me when I have the right of way and I hit them they would be at fault.

Doesn’t really matter who is at fault if you end up in a wheelchair or a coffin.

I agree with the desirability of trailer brakes and prefer electric trailer brakes, but...



The other day I was heading into town with an empty trailer. Wet snow made the roads slick. I was taking things easy, just barely touching the brake pedal as I slowed and turned the corner onto the on-ramp. I glanced in my right rear-view mirror and the trailer was missing! I checked my left and the trailer was swinging around beside me.



Apparently, I need an ABS electric brake controller. It was a good thing there was no oncoming traffic at that moment. I turned off the electric brake controller for the duration of that trip.

Either your trailer brakes were set too hard or you were driving too fast, or both.

 

[torch]

Either your trailer brakes were set too hard

Yup, like I said, the trailer was empty. Brakes are set up for trailer + Kubota.

 

[Rdrett]

I went ahead and upgraded to brakes on both axles and upgraded my tires from 225/75r15 to 235/85r16.
I spent $370 more than I wanted to but I believe it will be worth it in the long run.
I also picked up some led lights and a heavy duty hanger kit with grease able equalizer.
I didn’t want to second guess myself if someone pulled out in front of me and I hurt or even worse kill them.
The last thing I need to figure out is ramps to get the tractor on the trailer if anybody has any suggestions on a cheap way to build some ramps or even purchase pre built ramps.
Thanks

 

[captmikem]

brake controllers are standard on many Superduties, if not on yours it is already wired and you can buy the Ford plug and play controller on eBay for $99.

 

[Rdrett]

brake controllers are standard on many Superduties, if not on yours it is already wired and you can buy the Ford plug and play controller on eBay for $99.

Mine is a 2001 E350 super duty service van.
It didn’t come with a towing package but I believe it is pre-wired.

 

[bearskinner]

Mine is a 2001 E350 super duty service van.
It didn’t come with a towing package but I believe it is pre-wired.

It should be prewired. I had a 2000 SD van in the past and it has the plug under the dash. I picked up a digital brake controller, and the “patch cord” for Ford’s was only an additional $14.95.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

The last thing I need to figure out is ramps to get the tractor on the trailer if anybody has any suggestions on a cheap way to build some ramps or even purchase pre built ramps.
Thanks

I have a drop tail (hinged full width ramp) on my 20'.
It's great, as it's a lot easier, faster, and safer (can't shift out of place and is full width).

 

[Missouribound]

If someone pulls out in front of me when I have the right of way and I hit them they would be at fault.

Tell that to the cop that responds to you broadsiding a family of 4.

Without the equipment necessary to stop, regardless of the law you would be hard pressed to win that argument. The judgement of the responding LEO will decide who is at fault.

 

[sdk1968]

I have a drop tail (hinged full width ramp) on my 20'.
It's great, as it's a lot easier, faster, and safer (can't shift out of place and is full width).

If you dont have a tilt trailer...

NIW's advice is really solid.

no shifting ramps, no sliding off them... well worth your construction time.

since you are redoing this trailer yourself & are obviously a handy guy, this wont take you much to construct & once you have it? You will be very happy with the extra work it cost you.

it will pay you back in time savings alone!

 

[Rdrett]

Tell that to the cop that responds to you broadsiding a family of 4.

Without the equipment necessary to stop, regardless of the law you would be hard pressed to win that argument. The judgement of the responding LEO will decide who is at fault.

My dash cam will prove who is at fault, I don’t leave it up to a judgment call from corrupted cops.
What necessary equipment? Kentucky law is you are NOT required to have ANY extra equipment to assist with braking when hauling a trailer.

If someone pulled out in front of me when I have the right of way my dash cam will show that I was not at fault.
With dash cam proof and no law requiring trailer brakes I could easily win any argument from any stupid person who tried to put me at fault for some idiot pulling out in front of me.

 

[Rdrett]

Thanks to the people providing useful information instead of criticizing me.
I thought about a full width ramp but I was worried about the weight raising and lower the ramp.
Maybe I can incorporate some springs or shocks to help with the weight.

I also thought about making some slide out ramps like Uhaul uses on their car haulers.

 

[Charlie5320]

Thanks to the people providing useful information instead of criticizing me.
I thought about a full width ramp but I was worried about the weight raising and lower the ramp.
Maybe I can incorporate some springs or shocks to help with the weight.

I also thought about making some slide out ramps like Uhaul uses on their car haulers.

My car trailers had ramps made from angle iron, but your tractor is heavier than my cars was. My son-in-laws trailer is a much heavier built trailer and his has angle iron ramps too but his don't detach, they swing up and lock. You don't have to lift the whole thing. Not too sure I could even lift one of them at my age. They are mounted on maybe a 1 1/4 or 1/2 shaft and they can be moved closer together if necessary.

 

[Ortimber]

I can’t imagine why you wouldn’t want brakes. Law or no law, having brakes on a trailer makes sense and also makes hauling a load much more pleasant. I like being able to stop easily.

 

[torch]

My dash cam will prove who is at fault, I don***8217;t leave it up to a judgment call from corrupted cops.
What necessary equipment? Kentucky law is you are NOT required to have ANY extra equipment to assist with braking when hauling a trailer.

Substitute "ambulance" for "family of four" and now your dash cam just proved that you failed to yield to an emergency vehicle. But, personally, I'd be more worried about the civil suit than a traffic ticket.

But more to the point, I would think the electric brakes would be worthwhile in case you ever have need to take your trailer outside of your state, or want to sell it to someone who might want to take it outside of your state. I assume their laws are similar to Ontario: if the gross trailer weight exceeds 1,360kg (3,000lbs) then it must have brakes on all axles, regardless of where it is registered. Some provinces stipulate 2,000lbs. Some require a break-away box as well. Why limit your options?

As for ramps, I have the rear gate like wolfman describes. Despite being made of extruded metal, it does impose a noticeable fuel economy penalty even when empty. I'm thinking of switching to the pull out ramps like my brother has on his trailer, at least for longer trips, even though the hinged ramp is so much easier and faster to deploy.

 

[D2Cat]

Whatever kind of ramp/ramps you build be sure to put some feet on the bottom of the ramp so when you load something heavy your trailer does not pick up the back of the truck.

Also, if you build the full width ramp be sure to have support steel right where your tractor tires will travel. If that steel is not capable of supporting your tractor you will bow the ramp.

 

[Rdrett]

I can***8217;t imagine why you wouldn***8217;t want brakes. Law or no law, having brakes on a trailer makes sense and also makes hauling a load much more pleasant. I like being able to stop easily.

There was multiple reasons I considered not using trailer brakes when I started the build.

The main reason was simply the extra cost. It is going to cost me $300 to $400 more for brakes on both axles, wires and conduit and a brake controller.

Second was I did not want to maintain another braking system.

Third was that I thought I really did not need them seeing how I have a heavy duty truck and never used trailer brakes before pulling loads a lot heavier than my tractor.

But I am very glad to be a member of this great forum and after hearing Everyone opinions that tried to help me instead of criticizing me I decided to round up the extra money and get brakes on both axles.
Now if some idiot pulls out in front of me I will never second guess myself, well maybe that idiot would still be alive if I was able to stop faster with trailer brakes. I will not have to worry about that now because I have done everything possible to stop as fast as I can if some idiot pulls out in front of me.

 

[Rdrett]

Substitute "ambulance" for "family of four" and now your dash cam just proved that you failed to yield to an emergency vehicle. But, personally, I'd be more worried about the civil suit than a traffic ticket.

But more to the point, I would think the electric brakes would be worthwhile in case you ever have need to take your trailer outside of your state, or want to sell it to someone who might want to take it outside of your state. I assume their laws are similar to Ontario: if the gross trailer weight exceeds 1,360kg (3,000lbs) then it must have brakes on all axles, regardless of where it is registered. Some provinces stipulate 2,000lbs. Some require a break-away box as well. Why limit your options?

As for ramps, I have the rear gate like wolfman describes. Despite being made of extruded metal, it does impose a noticeable fuel economy penalty even when empty. I'm thinking of switching to the pull out ramps like my brother has on his trailer, at least for longer trips, even though the hinged ramp is so much easier and faster to deploy.

Thanks for the tip I just remember About a trailer I had that had a full width expanded metal fold down ramp that when empty felt like I was pull a full load at highway speed.
I took that ramp off and loaded my mower with metal ramps like you use to load a lawnmower in a truck bed.
The trailer pulled 10 times better.

I think I will go with pull out ramps but I don’t know what to do about keeping the trailer from lifting up on the rear end of the tow vehicle.
Maybe I will cut a couple blocks of wood to put under the rear of the trailer while loading and unloading but I would like to have something built into the ramps so when they are deployed I have the support automatically so I don’t forget to put the wooden blocks under the trailer rear end everytime I load and unload.

 

[Rdrett]

My car trailers had ramps made from angle iron, but your tractor is heavier than my cars was. My son-in-laws trailer is a much heavier built trailer and his has angle iron ramps too but his don't detach, they swing up and lock. You don't have to lift the whole thing. Not too sure I could even lift one of them at my age. They are mounted on maybe a 1 1/4 or 1/2 shaft and they can be moved closer together if necessary.

This is one of my two options I am now considering.
I think it would be better than the pull out ramps because I can build a support on the ramps to prevent the rear of the tow vehicle from lifting while loading and unloading.