Dealer says I need motor

[hornblende1]

Hello, just joined the forum.


I have an svl75-2 with just over 3,000 hours on it. I was operating the machine, when suddenly it shut off. It would crank but wouldn't start. I took it to the dealer, and they said fuel is getting to the pump, but the engine has low compression. They tested and the lowest compression number was ~310 psi.

When I cranked the engine before, it sounded like it had even compression across all 4 cylinders, so I have my doubts about their assessment. I read that sometimes these machines have shutoff solenoid issues, thats where my head is leading me.

What is all of your thoughts on it? Should I get a second opinion, or should I do some diag myself (i'm mechanically inclined).

 

[85Hokie]

typical 327 is min psi for compression - but I have seen several that will start and run at lower PSI.

I think IF the engine has been treated well and even AT 3000 hours - it should STILL run just fine.

YOU may be on to something with the fuel supply solenoid.

Others will chime in with ideas to correct. Personally I would ask the dealer for ALL the data they measured.

 

[#40Fan]

Pull the intake and spray some WD-40 down it. See if it will fire off of that.

 

[hornblende1]

Pull the intake and spray some WD-40 down it. See if it will fire off of that.

The dealer said they tried ether, but said it was just starting to hydrolock instead of fire off. But then they said it fired for a sec then died again.

 

[RCW]

The dealer said they tried ether, but said it was just starting to hydrolock instead of fire off. But then they said it fired for a sec then died again.

Ouch - typically ether is not recommended in modern diesels in that it can bend a rod, along with other possible damage.

Makes me suspect their diagnosis.

 

[lynnmor]

Ouch - typically ether is not recommended in modern diesels in that it can bend a rod, along with other possible damage.

Makes me suspect their diagnosis.

Maybe NOW the engine needs replaced!

I noticed that the major Kubota dealership near me doesn’t do major engine work, they just plug in a new one and write an enormous bill.

 

[jimh406]

I'd get a second opinion.

 

[fried1765]

I'd get a second opinion.

DITTO!

 

[lugbolt]

probably repairable before the starting fluid.

Ask them to tear down and explain what the problem is.

If they find broken ring lands or bent rods or broken pistons, that's on them (use of Ether will do that) and at that point they're gonna fight with you over it. Not a good situation.

don't ever use starting fluid of any kind on any modern diesel engines. Ever!

 

[007kubotaguy]

I would be extremely concerned about a dealer that use ether to try to start a tractor. As others have said you may not have needed a motor but you may need one now. It does not take but one time.

 

[whitetiger]

Your engine should start and run with 310PSI of compression.

Your engine is a common rail fuel system that does not have any type of shut-off solenoid. The ECU controls the injectors, telling them when and for how long to deliver fuel and when to not deliver any fuel.

Do not spray anything into the intake manifold, it was running when it shut itself off. Spraying any type of fuel into the intake just bypasses almost everything that would have shut it off. You already know it can run.

The dealer should have connected Diagmaster and checked the DTCs (Diagnostic Trouble Codes) which will tell you why the ECU shut the engine off. Did you get an error code showing on your hour meter?

Remove the fuel hose from the spin on fuel filter, turn the Key switch to ON and see if there is any fuel being pumped by the electric supply pump through the filter to the high-pressure pump. You may just have a plugged supply hose from the tank, a plugged 90-degree elbow on the inlet side of the water separator, or a plugged fuel filter.

Sounds like you need to find yourself a competent dealership.

 

[hornblende1]

Thanks for responses everyone

 

[hornblende1]

Your engine should start and run with 310PSI of compression.

Your engine is a common rail fuel system that does not have any type of shut-off solenoid. The ECU controls the injectors, telling them when and for how long to deliver fuel and when to not deliver any fuel.

Do not spray anything into the intake manifold, it was running when it shut itself off. Spraying any type of fuel into the intake just bypasses almost everything that would have shut it off. You already know it can run.

The dealer should have connected Diagmaster and checked the DTCs (Diagnostic Trouble Codes) which will tell you why the ECU shut the engine off. Did you get an error code showing on your hour meter?

Remove the fuel hose from the spin on fuel filter, turn the Key switch to ON and see if there is any fuel being pumped by the electric supply pump through the filter to the high-pressure pump. You may just have a plugged supply hose from the tank, a plugged 90-degree elbow on the inlet side of the water separator, or a plugged fuel filter.

Sounds like you need to find yourself a competent dealership.

I will take it back to my shop and take a look at all of that. When they plugged the computer in, they said they saw an overheat code (which is why they skipped a lot of diag and went straight for compression test and saying its a bad motor), but according to the guys who were using it when it shut off, it wasn't overheating.

Edit: Does this engine use a Bosch CP4 common rail pump?

 

[hornblende1]

probably repairable before the starting fluid.

Ask them to tear down and explain what the problem is.

If they find broken ring lands or bent rods or broken pistons, that's on them (use of Ether will do that) and at that point they're gonna fight with you over it. Not a good situation.

don't ever use starting fluid of any kind on any modern diesel engines. Ever!

Luckily i had them do a compression test in front of me, and when they cranked the engine it still sounded pretty healthy as it cranked. So fortunately i dont think the ether did any damage.

 

[Mark_BX25D]

Yeah, as in, their basic competence.

They are jumping to the easy, most expensive option based on one test.

Find another dealer.

 

[Oil pan 4]

You may not have needed a new engine until you took it to that dealer.

 

[hornblende1]

You may not have needed a new engine until you took it to that dealer.

Haha, hoping itll be ok. I'm getting it back today and will take a look myself.

 

[hornblende1]

Yeah, as in, their basic competence.

They are jumping to the easy, most expensive option based on one test.

Find another dealer.

Yep, they've done this to me years before too. Thought id give it another shot, only to see the same results as before

 

[GeoHorn]

The dealer said they tried ether, but said it was just starting to hydrolock instead of fire off. But then they said it fired for a sec then died again.

Kubota SPECIFICALLY WARNS NOT TO USE ETHER OR STARTING fluid on a diesel. I hope you have their statement that they used ether on it in writing or w/ a witness.

Think about this: A diesel is a compression-ignition engine… when that piston comes up on a compression stroke it HEATS whatever is in the cylinder to the point that if fuel is merely INJECTED it will cause detonation immediately. Starting-Fluid/Ether is highly combustive at ordinary atmospheric pressure!…. and as the piston is traveling upward in the compression stroke… the ether will combust PRIOR to Top-Dead-Center and potentially blow the piston or bend a connecting rod, etc.

If your engine was in sound mechanical conditon prior to those idiots at the “dealer”…. then their actions may have seriously damaged your engine.

IN OTHER WORDS their admission that it ”was starting to “hydrolock”…. IS PROBABLY PROOF THEY’VE DAMAGED IT.

(A “hydrolock” is when an incompressible fluid is trapped in a compression-stroke and prevents the piston from reaching TDC….thereby “locking” the engine from rotating. It can cause serious damage. Their comment in that regard confirms to me that they witnessed that the use of ether “locked” that engine.… Strong evidence they are liable to have damaged it.)

 

[hagrid]

How did Caterpillar, John Deere, et al get away with it prior to glow plugs and intake heater grids?