D1105 failure to start - need ideas

[Kubota_Mac]

Here is link to a video of a start attempt. This is after warming the engine up toasty with a propane heater, and it is up to almost 60F here today anyway. Also gave it plenty of glow plug time.... no joy.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

youtube.com

 

[hagrid]

That is a crack, no bout adoubt it.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Yep that head is toast!

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

The video sound / looks like lack of fuel and glow more than lack of compression???
It's not cranking very fast though?

 

[GreensvilleJay]

curious...
in the picture..
what's the '3 rounded hills' left of the crack ?

 

[hagrid]

Ah! That is Q'doba's trippple vortex system. The EDBD engines get those.

 

[sitric]

I didn't think it sounded like it was turning over very fast either. Also there are several blogs out there, about new loaded heads not functioning correctly, even with lapping them yourself. Don't want to disparage any vendor, but KB is especially known for it.

 

[Kubota_Mac]

I didn't think it sounded like it was turning over very fast either. Also there are several blogs out there, about new loaded heads not functioning correctly, even with lapping them yourself. Don't want to disparage any vendor, but KB is especially known for it.

So what do folks have to do in such a case?

 

[Kubota_Mac]

was that thing ran hard and got overheated? usually thats what causes cracks.

It was overheated about 10 years ago. A tree branch pulled a water line off and it wasn't noticed in time. Ran fine after that up until last summer.

 

[sitric]

So what do folks have to do in such a case?

There was a thread on this site, where the guy had to have a shop put his old valves and seats in with a proper valve job. I'll look for a link to it. Ran across it when researching for my upcoming V1702-DI rebuild.

Edit: found it, https://www.orangetractortalks.com/...d950-diesel-freshly-rebuilt-wont-start.29821/

 

[Kubota_Mac]

The video sound / looks like lack of fuel and glow more than lack of compression???
It's not cranking very fast though?

It is cranking as fast as it ever has. If it had low compression, would it be cranking faster than normal? Does this seem too slow to start? The white vaper is the fuel I believe.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

curious...
in the picture..
what's the '3 rounded hills' left of the crack ?

That's the pre chamber, fuel is injected in there and fired into the cylinder.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

It is cranking as fast as it ever has. If it had low compression, would it be cranking faster than normal? Does this seem too slow to start? The white vaper is the fuel I believe.

I really think all signs are pointing to a head issue.
I would pull the head and first do a pre chamber test and go from there.
For giggles i would also use the now used head gasket bolt the old head on it, and WITHOUT filling it with any coolant do a compression test and if those numbers look right that answers that question!

 

[sitric]

I think NIW is steering you in the right direction. You think buying a loaded new head would work out of box, but nonOE stuff seems to come with its own set of problems

 

[Kubota_Mac]

Thanks all for your help. it ended up that I just needed to spin the engine faster to get it started and the fuel lines all clear of air. Put a 200A charger on it in boost mode and got it running tonight. For those in a similar situation, don't go down a rabbit hole thinking 150PSI compression is too low to start on a new ring job. It's running like a top now.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Thanks all for your help. it ended up that I just needed to spin the engine faster to get it started and the fuel lines all clear of air. Put a 200A charger on it in boost mode and got it running tonight. For those in a similar situation, don't go down a rabbit hole thinking 150PSI compression is too low to start on a new ring job. It's running like a top now.

It does build up higher compression when it spins faster!
Excellent to hear you got it fired up!

 

[sitric]

Nice job sticking with it.

 

[Russell King]

Great that you have it running now.

I know that on my old L185 it would fire off turning slowly when battery was weak. I eventually replaced the battery and the starter and it would spin much faster. The old starter was just so bad that it couldn’t be rebuilt. I think you might be able to get the gear reduction type starter if you want, I didn’t even know to ask about that though so mine is still the old school version.

Does that model tractor have any way to release the compression during cranking which helps mine spin up and then start easily.

What are you going to do to get it spinning faster or do you have any plans other than just happily listening to it running for some time now?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Great that you have it running now.

I know that on my old L185 it would fire off turning slowly when battery was weak. I eventually replaced the battery and the starter and it would spin much faster. The old starter was just so bad that it couldn’t be rebuilt. I think you might be able to get the gear reduction type starter if you want, I didn’t even know to ask about that though so mine is still the old school version.

Does that model tractor have any way to release the compression during cranking which helps mine spin up and then start easily.

What are you going to do to get it spinning faster or do you have any plans other than just happily listening to it running for some time now?

That's a very new model engine, already has the good starter and no decompression on newer engines.
He should be fine as getting it started and running will seat the rings and raise the compression to a good level so it should start and run easier from here on out.

 

[Vigo]

This is a great thread. People talking to each other at a high technical level, OP answering questions quickly and directly, no nonsense spread around (except as comic relief), and then the tractor runs! Gotta love it.

I think the biggest clue for me came from that video. It was cranking slowly. Not too slowly to start a warm engine that's already in running condition, but dubiously suspiciously slow for an engine missing half its cranking compression!! It should have been going much faster than that with 150psi compression IF there was nothing wrong with the starting circuit.

So im glad it's running but i would still encourage to improve that cranking speed. Could be wiring or could be inside the starter. Voltage drop testing could tell you. Either one could be DIY'ed by anyone who already knows how to rebuild an engine.