Canadian Wildfires

[The Evil Twin]

"They" always like to blame the climate change boogeyman. But, let's look at this factually....
Canada is having a terrible year.
USA is at a 10 year low.

National Fire News | National Interagency Fire Center

www.nifc.gov

If it was the boogeyman, then wouldn't the statistics run congruent to each other? Instead, they are inverse. In past years it was the opposite. To me, it appears to be a weather issue and not a climate issue (in addition to land management as Jay eluded to).
FWIW, the USA has sent around 1200 personnel up north.

 

[Code]

Is anything being done to fight or contain the fires? Several news outlets are blaming the fires on global warming. One site notes that Canada upped the warning level which allows to ask for foreign help in fighting them. Nothing shown in news sites of firefighters working to contain them.

What ive read is something like 250 fire not under control. Lots of rumbling about poor forestry management and budget cuts.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Unless you've ever been caught in / or fought a forest fire, you can't imagine the power and extreme complexities of fighting these kinds of fires.
It's never as simple as drawling a line or throwing water / suppressants at it.

We had fires up here last year that burned for 5 months straight all the while being fought on several fronts with massive amounts of man power and land and air support.

Our fires are for the most part natural occurring fires (lightning strikes), one storm last year started 6 fires in one pass, across 100 miles of Idaho's northern section.
Several were on the edge of town, but luck would have it, they fly quite a few water bombers out of local airport and they were able to get them put out before they got out of hand.

 

[Daren Todd]

Well the smoke is back today and smells like Melted Plastic. Good Times!

Sure that's not a neighbor???

 

[Tughill Tom]

Sure that's not a neighbor???

Nope, none here yet for the weekend, just us full-timers.

 

[jimh406]

As noted before, there are some US firefighters there now, but the effort started months late. If we had started in March, it would be under control. Per usual, the US and Canada governments are run pretty poorly in my opinion.

 

[chim]

Evil Twin said "They" always like to blame the climate change boogeyman..................

There are many news stories I click away from as soon as I see the ol' Climate Control tripe. Just a few days ago someone was whining that global warming was making it easier for batters to hit home runs due to the hotter air being thinner.

 

[jyoutz]

As noted before, there are some US firefighters there now, but the effort started months late. If we had started in March, it would be under control. Per usual, the US and Canada governments are run pretty poorly in my opinion.

Wildfire suppression is well organized and the dispatch process runs quickly. Resources are ordered and deployed as needed very quickly. Both the US and Canada have professional wildfire management organizations. But wildfire “suppression” is really a poor description of how it works. Wildfires occurring in heavy forest fuels are not “put out” like a structure fire. It’s not possible. They are contained to control spread, letting the heavy fuels burn out inside the containment lines. Often this takes weeks or even a few months. After the fire is contained, crews work to strengthen the control lines and suppress spot fires outside of control lines when winds whip up interior flames and blow embers over the line. There are no illusions that fires in heavy forest fuels will be quickly extinguished because stumps and heavy down logs can smolder for weeks or months.

 

[jyoutz]

Unless you've ever been caught in / or fought a forest fire, you can't imagine the power and extreme complexities of fighting these kinds of fires.
It's never as simple as drawling a line or throwing water / suppressants at it.

We had fires up here last year that burned for 5 months straight all the while being fought on several fronts with massive amounts of man power and land and air support.

Our fires are for the most part natural occurring fires (lightning strikes), one storm last year started 6 fires in one pass, across 100 miles of Idaho's northern section.
Several were on the edge of town, but luck would have it, they fly quite a few water bombers out of local airport and they were able to get them put out before they got out of hand.

Thank you for explaining this. You obviously “get it.”

 

[The Evil Twin]

Evil Twin said "They" always like to blame the climate change boogeyman..................

There are many news stories I click away from as soon as I see the ol' Climate Control tripe. Just a few days ago someone was whining that global warming was making it easier for batters to hit home runs due to the hotter air being thinner.

It's been harder for me. But that's married life. Oh, wait....you're talking baseball

 

[rc51stierhoff]

Evil Twin said "They" always like to blame the climate change boogeyman..................

There are many news stories I click away from as soon as I see the ol' Climate Control tripe. Just a few days ago someone was whining that global warming was making it easier for batters to hit home runs due to the hotter air being thinner.

I would not refer to the stories you are referring to as ‘news’…when you do it gives them legitimacy…and I don’t believe that is your intention.

 

[chim]

I would not refer to the stories you are referring to as ‘news’…when you do it gives them legitimacy…and I don’t believe that is your intention.

Haha - you have a point. Not many "news" outlets that I'd trust to be telling the truth

 

[jyoutz]

Haha - you have a point. Not many "news" outlets that I'd trust to be telling the truth

One thing to keep in mind is typical forest fires cannot be connected to a changing climate. And I’m not discounting climate change; it’s just that it’s not possible to link them. Many forests (like the boreal forests in Canada) have a natural ecology that is based on very infrequent high severity fires (200+ years) to replace old forest with new regeneration. This is part of the science that we understand about these forests that has happened for millennia. In contrast, the interior western US conifer forests, and SE US pine piedmont forests are adapted to historical frequent low severity fires (5-30 years) that thinned these forests and consumed dead fuels. Settlement and community development has essentially suppressed these types of frequent fires for 100+ years, so forest density and dead fuels have been building up for 100+ years. The overwhelming fuel loads and density of these forests are what is driving the current fire severity. This is a much more significant factor than small changes in climate.

 

[jimh406]

Wildfire suppression is well organized and the dispatch process runs quickly.

Yeah, it’s perfect. That’s why there is so much smoke this year from Canada. I get you have to try to defend your profession, but those of us with a working brain can see how poorly you guys are doing.

This “science” is doing about well as the Covid “science” did. In other words, any other business would be out of business, but when you are financed by taxpayers, it’s ok to fail.

 

[jyoutz]

Yeah, it’s perfect. That’s why there is so much smoke this year from Canada. I get you have to try to defend your profession, but those of us with a working brain can see how poorly you guys are doing.

This “science” is doing about well as the Covid “science” did. In other words, any other business would be out of business, but when you are financed by taxpayers, it’s ok to fail.

I was trying politely to explain to you that your post is completely uninformed, but you had to make this personal. Okay, you make zero sense and have no clue what you are talking about. Boreal forests are renewed by fire and it’s a critical part of their lifecycle that they do burn and be renewed. Many of these old decadent conifer forests will be replaced by aspen and after some time will be conifer forests again. That’s the natural ecology of these forests that has been happening for millennia. You also have no clue about wildland fire management. Wildland fires in heavy forest fuels are managed, not put out like structure fires in the city. They are contained to control spread in unwanted directions, and allowed to spread to locations where burning would be beneficial. Why? Because it’s infeasible, unsafe, and would cost hundreds of millions more than current costs to extinguish interior burning. And it would also be unwise because the heavy fuels need to burn out to start the forest renewal process. Think about how ridiculous it would be to try to carry water to every smoking stump hole and down log on 10,000 acres? 100,000 acres? And don’t make ridiculous comparisons to covid conspiracies. It immediately flags your post as ranting. 🥱

 

[Biker1mike]

I was trying politely to explain to you that your post is completely uninformed, but you had to make this personal. Okay, you make zero sense and have no clue what you are talking about. Boreal forests are renewed by fire and it’s a critical part of their lifecycle that they do burn and be renewed. Many of these old decadent conifer forests will be replaced by aspen and after some time will be conifer forests again. That’s the natural ecology of these forests that has been happening for millennia. You also have no clue about wildland fire management. Wildland fires in heavy forest fuels are managed, not put out like structure fires in the city. They are contained to control spread in unwanted directions, and allowed to spread to locations where burning would be beneficial. Why? Because it’s infeasible, unsafe, and would cost hundreds of millions more than current costs to extinguish interior burning. And it would also be unwise because the heavy fuels need to burn out to start the forest renewal process. Think about how ridiculous it would be to try to carry water to every smoking stump hole and down log on 10,000 acres? 100,000 acres? And don’t make ridiculous comparisons to covid conspiracies. It immediately flags your post as ranting. 🥱

You are not going to win the argument. Best to rub your neck, shake your head and walk away.
IMHO, it is part weather, part climate change, part management and part natural regeneration.
I have been at brush fires, interior structural fires and small woods fires. I hated woodland fires. Way too many variables , a good wind shift and everything changes.
In the end the good earth will be rid of homo sapiens .

 

[jyoutz]

You are not going to win the argument. Best to rub your neck, shake your head and walk away.
IMHO, it is part weather, part climate change, part management and part natural regeneration.
I have been at brush fires, interior structural fires and small woods fires. I hated woodland fires. Way too many variables , a good wind shift and everything changes.
In the end the good earth will be rid of homo sapiens .

Interesting the lack of respect people have for professionals. I respect and listen to what the many engineers on this site say about that topic and don’t argue with them. Yet I don’t receive the same courtesy.

 

[Jchonline]

There is a difference between a "natural understory fire" and a "crown fire". Crown fires are not regenerative, they are not natural. In this area understory fires (even those that cook the tree trunks and kill the tree) will allow the pine cones to drop and reseed. A crown fire does nothing of the sort. It burns everything and there is no natural regeneration...at least not in decades. Maybe over a few hundred years eventually some seeds will make their way back. I would not consider that natural. A 1000ft wall of flame is not natural. I have seen pictures of them about a mile from my property during Cameron Peak fire (208,000 acres) in 2020.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

The problem I have with the current wildfires is that they ALL could have been MINIMIZED to a few 1,000 acres and quickly put out IF the governments had used the plan was presented to CA,BC,AB,ON and QC three and 1/2 decades ago. Never implemented, not even on a 'trial basis'. heck, NONE of the 5 even acknowledged the plan.

 

[Jchonline]

The problem I have with the current wildfires is that they ALL could have been MINIMIZED to a few 1,000 acres and quickly put out IF the governments had used the plan was presented to CA,BC,AB,ON and QC three and 1/2 decades ago. Never implemented, not even on a 'trial basis'. heck, NONE of the 5 even acknowledged the plan.

We have lived through extreme fire behavior.
With 50 mph winds in dry beetle kill fuels (dense forest) there is NOTHING on this planet that could put out a 1000 acre fire except maybe dropping the ocean on it. You could have 50 tankers lined up and by the time they got filled and back on site the fire would be 25000 acres and have moved 10 miles. Heck these fires SPOT 2 miles in that wind. Sorry but you are wrong there.

Wind
Humidity (really humidity recovery)
Fuels

If these 3 are all bad (ie 50 mph wind, <12% humidity, lots of dead trees) then there is nothing a human can do. You just have to get out of the way. Its like trying to fight a hurricane or tornado. Just aint gonna happen.

NOW if there is no wind but we have a fire started...sure go ham on it. Most of these massive fires have had all 3 of these present.