Canadian Wildfires

[The Evil Twin]

I knew it was satire, but some folks didn’t. So I made my argument.

Cool, cool. We are on the same page.

 

[Bmyers]

I attended a 40-hour FEMA/ESDA/Illinois Fire Marshall training on incident operations. It was very enlightening for us that don't live in wildfire areas. Three of the instructors were members of response teams.

I learned a lot of respect for those management teams (yes the ground troops do the work, but I was amazed by the complexity of trying to get all the resources and manage the various team). Our incidents we have dealt with have been localized compared to the wildfires and was a eye opener for us.

As with this forum, there were/are varying opinions on what is the best way to prevent the fires. Yet, when it is your home burning up, never enough is being done, and I would feel the same way.

 

[DustyRusty]

Bottom line, we are probably never going to agree on a lot other than Kubota makes good tractors.

This too can be debated!

 

[jyoutz]

There is a difference between a "natural understory fire" and a "crown fire". Crown fires are not regenerative, they are not natural. In this area understory fires (even those that cook the tree trunks and kill the tree) will allow the pine cones to drop and reseed. A crown fire does nothing of the sort. It burns everything and there is no natural regeneration...at least not in decades. Maybe over a few hundred years eventually some seeds will make their way back. I would not consider that natural. A 1000ft wall of flame is not natural. I have seen pictures of them about a mile from my property during Cameron Peak fire (208,000 acres) in 2020.

You are correct for most of the forest types in the interior west. However boreal forests (and spruce-fir forests in the interior west) do naturally experience crown fires and regenerate as aspen forests. After about 100 years, conifers replace the aspen.

 

[Jchonline]

You are correct for most of the forest types in the interior west. However boreal forests (and spruce-fir forests in the interior west) do naturally experience crown fires and regenerate as aspen forests. After about 100 years, conifers replace the aspen.

Aspens around Colorado dont grow well in the same areas as fir. Aspens like wetter areas, and often do not thrive unless the are in those areas. For instance you will see fir at much higher altitude and up slopes. Aspens just dont like the dry soil. Not sure I like the idea of fir being replaced by aspen at all!

 

[fried1765]

Aspens around Colorado dont grow well in the same areas as fir. Aspens like wetter areas, and often do not thrive unless the are in those areas. For instance you will see fir at much higher altitude and up slopes. Aspens just dont like the dry soil. Not sure I like the idea of fir being replaced by aspen at all!

IMHO aspens are members of the "weed" family.

 

[jyoutz]

Aspens around Colorado dont grow well in the same areas as fir. Aspens like wetter areas, and often do not thrive unless the are in those areas. For instance you will see fir at much higher altitude and up slopes. Aspens just dont like the dry soil. Not sure I like the idea of fir being replaced by aspen at all!

Wet mixed conifer forests in Colorado (and throughout the Rocky Mountains) go through succession over time: aspen after high severity disturbances (fire, bug kill, blowdown, etc), and over 100 years developing into conifer forests again. Dry mixed conifer forests are different: they are dominated by ponderosa pine and Douglas-fir and historically were kept open by frequent low severity fires. Now they are overly dense and experience high severity fires. But as you described, aspen only grows in small patches after disturbances in these forests. Most of them need replanting because they aren’t adapted to high severity fires. Wet and dry mixed conifer forests are two different types.

 

[RCW]

Even in the northeast, a few aspen species and some others are “pioneers” after a disturbance. Fast and indeterminate growth. Overtake their competition within a few years.

Common associates are black cherry, white ash and a couple birches. EAB will take care of the ash in time.

We have an issue in New York with persistent American Beech in the understory. Has challenged the pioneers last 50 years. NYSDEC has been prescribing herbicides with their timber sales on state lands for beech, some ferns and some other invasive species.

 

[DustyRusty]

When North America was a vast area with only Indian tribes inhabiting it, is there any evidence that they also had forest fires like we have today? If they did, how long would it take for the wild fires to burn themselves out?

 

[jyoutz]

When North America was a vast area with only Indian tribes inhabiting it, is there any evidence that they also had forest fires like we have today? If they did, how long would it take for the wild fires to burn themselves out?

There is a science called dendrochronolgy that involves the study of tree rings in labs. They can determine drought years, good growth years, and fire events. Many of these studies in the Southwest look back 500+ years. Yes, fires occurred for as long as there are tree ring records. There is also oral history from Native American tribes that document both lightning fires and a history of Native American burning. They burned forests for various reasons: stimulating berries and other foods, hunting, and tick/insect control. But the native burning was eclipsed by the vast extent of lightning fires. There are journals of early explorers and mountain men that talk about smoke and fires extending for miles and lasting for months. The dendro studies corroborate these observations. However, in the lower elevation pine forests these fires were frequent enough and covered tens of thousands of acres so the fuel loading remained low and the forests were maintained in open conditions, so those fires were lower severity and not the high severity crown fires we see today (in the lower elevation pine forests).