BX2380 PTO disengaged and won’t re-engage

[ram4x4]

Was using my 2380 to mow grass with the mmm and after approximately 45 minutes of mowing the PTO disengaged by itself, lever still in the engaged position. I tried a few times to disengage and engage but nothing. Tried rear PTO or both mid and rear PTO also and nothing is working. It didn’t make any abnormal noises and the mid and tear PTO shafts turn smoothly by hand. Verified the linkage is free and moves freely. Tractors has 608 hours and the trans has been serviced beyond what Kubota calls for.
Could the engaging valve be clogged or bad PTO clutch?
Anyone seen this before or have any ideas?
Thanks

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Can you verify that #100 rollpin is still in arm #090 and that it moves ? There should be some 'resistance' when going to the 3 positions. it moves crank #070 that moves #040 on shaft #010, so 'clink,clink, clink would be normal and felt.

 

[yorkies77]

I had the same thing happen on my BX23S while blowing snow with it. I just quit. I took it to the dealer and they had to open the hat. A quarter size piece of case sealant broke loose and plugged the valve for the pro. They had never seen anything like that before. There was 525 hours on it at the time that that occurred.

 

[yorkies77]

I had the same thing happen on my BX23S while blowing snow with it. It just quit. I took it to the dealer and they had to open the hst. A quarter size piece of case sealant broke loose and plugged the valve for the pto. They had never seen anything like that before. There was 525 hours on it at the time that that occurred.

 

[ram4x4]

View attachment 112524
Can you verify that #100 rollpin is still in arm #090 and that it moves ? There should be some 'resistance' when going to the 3 positions. it moves crank #070 that moves #040 on shaft #010, so 'clink,clink, clink would be normal and felt.

Is that roll pin on the linkage for shifting between mid and rear pto? It definitely still has the detente when shifting into the three positions. I’ll verify the roll pin is still intact but it will be Friday till I’m back at the tractor.

 

[ram4x4]

I had the same thing happen on my BX23S while blowing snow with it. I just quit. I took it to the dealer and they had to open the hat. A quarter size piece of case sealant broke loose and plugged the valve for the pro. They had never seen anything like that before. There was 525 hours on it at the time that that occurred.

Did they have to remove the entire transmission or were they able to access a different way? It looks like the frame rail covers enough of the valve that transmission removal is required to get to the hst control valve.

 

[yorkies77]

Did they have to remove the entire transmission or were they able to access a different way? It looks like the frame rail covers enough of the valve that transmission removal is required to get to the hst control valve.

They broke it and had to disassemble it completely.

 

[hagrid]

the mid and tear PTO shafts turn smoothly by hand.

That shouldn't happen... not by hand, anyway. The BX PTO clutch has a spring powered brake to decelerate your implements and prevent drift. My uneducated opinion is your PTO drive is mechanically de-coupled from the clutch.

Here is something easy and free to attempt in order to narrow down the issue: with the PTO selector in "both", spin either output shaft by hand... does the other move with it?

 

[ram4x4]

That shouldn't happen... not by hand, anyway. The BX PTO clutch has a spring powered brake to decelerate your implements and prevent drift. My uneducated opinion is your PTO drive is mechanically de-coupled from the clutch.

Here is something easy and free to attempt in order to narrow down the issue: with the PTO selector in "both", spin either output shaft by hand... does the other move with it?

I’ll give that a try and report back.

 

[ram4x4]

They broke it and had to disassemble it completely.

That’s what I was worried you were going to say.

 

[ram4x4]

View attachment 112524
Can you verify that #100 rollpin is still in arm #090 and that it moves ? There should be some 'resistance' when going to the 3 positions. it moves crank #070 that moves #040 on shaft #010, so 'clink,clink, clink would be normal and felt.

Yes, the roll pin is there and all parts move as they should.

 

[ram4x4]

That shouldn't happen... not by hand, anyway. The BX PTO clutch has a spring powered brake to decelerate your implements and prevent drift. My uneducated opinion is your PTO drive is mechanically de-coupled from the clutch.

Here is something easy and free to attempt in order to narrow down the issue: with the PTO selector in "both", spin either output shaft by hand... does the other move with it?

They only move when the pto selector is not engaged. I mean when mid pto is engaged the rear will spin smoothly. When mid or rear or both are selected the shafts do not turn by hand.

 

[Seane1987]

Get a gauge setup that can read up to 200 psi, take the left rear tire off and you will see a 1/8" pipe plug in the end of the pto valve. Get the gauge plumbed into that and start the tractor, and engage the pto, it should have 145 to 188.5 psi. If it's lower than that, there is a pto relief valve that could have failed (I would think this is unlikely), there is a Leak between the pto valve and clutch (all would be internal leaks inside the transmission, again unlikely), or the valve is plugged.

If the pressure is good, the pto clutch or piston is probably failed. I was told by my dealer they have never had a failed pto clutch on a BX.

If needed,, I think I would take a die grinder to the frame to get the valve out without pulling the transmission, you wouldn't to make much mor than a 1/2 inch notch to get the valve to clear the frame.

 

[KUBOTA902]

Was using my 2380 to mow grass with the mmm and after approximately 45 minutes of mowing the PTO disengaged by itself, lever still in the engaged position. I tried a few times to disengage and engage but nothing. Tried rear PTO or both mid and rear PTO also and nothing is working. It didn’t make any abnormal noises and the mid and tear PTO shafts turn smoothly by hand. Verified the linkage is free and moves freely. Tractors has 608 hours and the trans has been serviced beyond what Kubota calls for.
Could the engaging valve be clogged or bad PTO clutch?
Anyone seen this before or have any ideas?
Thanks

You probably have a piece of silicone stick in the orifice of the PTO valve. I usually see 2 or 3 a year do it. Pretty easy fix

 

[ram4x4]

Get a gauge setup that can read up to 200 psi, take the left rear tire off and you will see a 1/8" pipe plug in the end of the pto valve. Get the gauge plumbed into that and start the tractor, and engage the pto, it should have 145 to 188.5 psi. If it's lower than that, there is a pto relief valve that could have failed (I would think this is unlikely), there is a Leak between the pto valve and clutch (all would be internal leaks inside the transmission, again unlikely), or the valve is plugged.

If the pressure is good, the pto clutch or piston is probably failed. I was told by my dealer they have never had a failed pto clutch on a BX.

If needed,, I think I would take a die grinder to the frame to get the valve out without pulling the transmission, you wouldn't to make much mor than a 1/2 inch notch to get the valve to clear the frame.

Thanks, I’ll work on getting the gauge and fitting to test the pressure. I keep going back and forth on whether I want to notch the frame or spend the time pulling the trans.

 

[ram4x4]

You probably have a piece of silicone stick in the orifice of the PTO valve. I usually see 2 or 3 a year do it. Pretty easy fix

Is there a way to fix it other than pulling the trans or notching the frame?

 

[KUBOTA902]

Is there a way to fix it other than pulling the trans or notching the frame?

No need to pull the trans. Remove the bolts on the left rear frame rail and pry it out. Put a piece of wood between the rail and trans. Pull the PTO valve out and use a torch tip cleaner to get the silicone out. It's going to be a small piece, sometimes it's hard to see

 

[ram4x4]

No need to pull the trans. Remove the bolts on the left rear frame rail and pry it out. Put a piece of wood between the rail and trans. Pull the PTO valve out and use a torch tip cleaner to get the silicone out. It's going to be a small piece, sometimes it's hard to see

Thanks, that would be great. We’ll see what the pressure test shows and go from there.

 

[ram4x4]

Was able to get a gauge setup and checked the pressure and had zero pressure with the pto engaged. Decided to try removing the hydraulic valve like Kuboat902 posted above. Removed the tire, the mmm lift linkage, diff lock linkage, and the 12 bolts through the frame rail. The frame rail has enough movement to be able to be pried out and just get the valve out. Like has been mentioned above there was a small piece of silicon gasket in the 1mm flow hole. Removed that and verified it was clean and reassembled the valve and 12 bolts, started the tractor and tried the pto and nothing. Disassembled the valve again and more gasket material. Reassembled it again and again nothing. The third time disassembling and cleaning and all is well. The pto is working like normal just like it has up till now. When I get time in a few weeks I’ll probably drop the trans fluid out and change the filter and clean the screen. Disappointed it took all of this but glad it wasn’t a major failure.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

3d time's the 'charm' !! glad you're 'up and running'
hate to think what the dealer would have charged....