BX2200D Not Starting [Please Help]

[Sir_Angus]

So with the stop solenoid out, and the fuel lines off and the engine cranking your getting no fuel out of the injection pump?

correct

 

[GreensvilleJay]

OK, late to the post but curious....real curious as a LOT of work has been done on the engine.
It seems there IS fuel getting to the inj pump ,is it possible that the 'injector pump camshaft' or whatever it's called is NOT rotating ?
Maybe a broken gear or key ? Whatever mechanically controls the pump ??
Probably a pain but if the pump is removed can the pump camshaft be seen to spin when starter spins the engine ?

 

[torch]

UPDATE #1

When key is in "ACC/Pre-heat" position:
- Glow plugs get 0 volts
- Stop solenoid plunger extended

With some sort of resistance in series (eg: 6v light bulb), I would use a jumper from B+ to the injectors and give it some pre-heat before spending more time chasing possible fuel issues.

 

[Henro]

Just to confirm, when the wolfman asked if you had the fuel cutoff solenoid physically removed when you did some tests you replied "correct".

I remember you saying you had removed the solenoid and verified it was working and replaced it. Did you actually try starting the engine or do other checks with the solenoid physically removed from the injector pump?

I assume when Wolfman said "out" he meant physically removed. On my BX2200 there is no way to manually retract the solenoid armature other than removing the solenoid from the injector pump.

 

[Sir_Angus]

Just to confirm, when the wolfman asked if you had the fuel cutoff solenoid physically removed when you did some tests you replied "correct".

I remember you saying you had removed the solenoid and verified it was working and replaced it. Did you actually try starting the engine or do other checks with the solenoid physically removed from the injector pump?

I assume when Wolfman said "out" he meant physically removed. On my BX2200 there is no way to manually retract the solenoid armature other than removing the solenoid from the injector pump.

Yes, I had the solenoid physically removed and tried starting, but there was no change. Also, watched the plunger while doing this and it worked correctly.

 

[Sir_Angus]

With some sort of resistance in series (eg: 6v light bulb), I would use a jumper from B+ to the injectors and give it some pre-heat before spending more time chasing possible fuel issues.

My injectors are mechanical. In the video I attached to a previous post, you can see I let the glow plugs "pre-heat" for about 15-20 seconds before starting. During that time they were getting 10-11 volts.

 

[Sir_Angus]

OK, late to the post but curious....real curious as a LOT of work has been done on the engine.
It seems there IS fuel getting to the inj pump ,is it possible that the 'injector pump camshaft' or whatever it's called is NOT rotating ?
Maybe a broken gear or key ? Whatever mechanically controls the pump ??
Probably a pain but if the pump is removed can the pump camshaft be seen to spin when starter spins the engine ?

The pump is mechanical, and requires a lot of parts to be removed. I would not try starting the engine in this state unless I knew for sure it was safe.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

One of the experts will know, but obviously engine won't start but should spin the 'injector pump camshaft' and you will see this action with the pump removed.
You've got fuel to the inj pump, a new/rebuilt pump, return fuel from pump so it's mind boggling as to WHY no fuel into the cylinders...... if the inj pump camshaft don't spin, engine will never run.

 

[fried1765]

UPDATE #2

After reading the responses (much appreciated), I decided to try the "no fuel" possibility; even though I can hear the fuel pump run and could see fuel filling the filter bowl.

I disconnected the air cleaner hose and applied diesel safe starting fluid directly into the intake... It started and almost ran for a fraction of a second!

Now, I'm considering that maybe the fuel pump works but is too weak to fully pressurize the line?
(Also, verified I didn't accidentally reverse the fuel filters flow... I did not.)

"Diesel safe starting fluid" ???
There is such a thing?
If there is....it ain't "safe"!

 

[Sir_Angus]

"Diesel safe starting fluid" ???
There is such a thing?
If there is....it ain't "safe"!

 

[Henro]

My understanding is that SOME diesel engines by design used starting fluid of some kind.

NOT Kubota tractors though…

 

[Henro]

You’ve got some good suggestions in this thread.

If I remember right:

1. You have fuel reaching the injector pump, and returning back to the tank.
2. You are now using a different injector pump which is either your original one rebuilt, or a replacement you got somewhere that you have confidence in.
3. The injector pump is not outputting fuel to the injectors.

As somebody suggested above, if the mechanical system which causes the pump to pump is somehow not functioning, the pump will not output fuel to the injectors.

It seems logical that you should now verify somehow that the pump is actually turning when the engine is turning. No clue how to do that but I am sure someone here certainly does. Apologies if you already did this…

 

[Sir_Angus]

My understanding is that SOME diesel engines by design used starting fluid of some kind.

NOT Kubota tractors though…

Yeah, I’m not an expert on engines, but, when used properly, can help diagnose a non-starting issue.

Previously, I used it sparingly directly into the intake manifold while cranking, and the motor chugged a bit.

I tried the same thing, but with a mist of diesel from a spray bottle. It didn’t have the same effect. I’m guessing because the diesel spray didn’t atomize into small enough droplets.

 

[Russell King]

Thanks for all of the info and confirmation on questions.

I imagine there has to be some method to verify the pump is being mechanically actuated by the engine besides removing the injection pump. @whitetiger or @North Idaho Wolfman please comment on how this would be done if there is a way other than removing the pump.

I believe that @torch post #43 meant to energize the glow plugs directly and nothing to do with the injectors. But I believe that you know that they are getting power and showed that in the video. If you have an infrared thermometer or care to buy one you could verify that heat is being generated by the glow plugs.

I am about stumped as what to suggest at this stage. I will think on it some and continue to read thread and make suggestions if I can.

And good luck with it. Perhaps hire a mobile mechanic to help you out now and limit the time he has to what you can afford.

 

[Sir_Angus]

1. You have fuel reaching the injector pump, and returning back to the tank. CORRECT
2. You are now using a different injector pump which is either your original one rebuilt, or a replacement you got somewhere that you have confidence in. CORRECT
3. The injector pump is not outputting fuel to the injectors. CORRECT

I’m at the point that dealer service may be the most prudent next step. Unless someone here can help me have a “eureka” moment.

I do appreciate all the helpful advice offered throughout this thread.

 

[fried1765]

View attachment 102598

It is common knowledge that using ANY starting fluid in a modern diesel will guaranty an imminent death for that engine

 

[Sir_Angus]

It is common knowledge that using ANY starting fluid in a modern diesel will guaranty an imminent death for that engine

That may be true, but I wouldn’t classify my Kubota engine as “modern” since it’s all mechanical without an ECU. Either Way, it didn’t cause any damage, but thanks for the warning.

 

[fried1765]

That may be true, but I wouldn’t classify my Kubota engine as “modern” since it’s all mechanical without an ECU. Either Way, it didn’t cause any damage, but thanks for the warning.

My L48 is from 2006, but I will not use any starting fluid either.
For my 1989 Ford 1920.......maybe?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

When you installed the injection pump:
#1 Make sure all the original shims when back in under the pump?
#2 Make sure the injector pump rack pin engaged the governor linkage properly?
#3 Verified that the injection pump body is full of fuel?
#4 Make sure the stop lever is not engaged?

Starting fluid / ether in these ultra high compression engines can squash the rods thus dropping the compression and making them not start.
So saying you didn't do any damage is only verifiable with compression test and that still don't 100% rule out it breaking rings, or lands causing oil consumption.

 

[Sir_Angus]

Hey guys! Final update for this thread.

Took the tractor to the dealer. Mechanic said he found nothing wrong, but, as a matter of habit, he changed both fuel filters and added some fresh diesel. Then primed the injectors and it fired right up.

Draw your own conclusions because I got nothing.

Worked out for the best because they also found a weird hydraulic issue that would’ve been a big problem later.