BX 23S Third-Function Question

TheOldHokie

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The Dealer has the tractor. They fetched it within two hours of my contacting them. I'll have to see what things look like when they return it. Thanks for the info. I was waiting to get it back to post an update here.
Thats encouraging. Please do let us know the outcome. Based on the instruction sheet you provided the installation should be so simple a ....

Dan
 

Soopitup

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IMO those WR Long instructions are actually far more understandable than the Landpride instructions.

If the hoses in the WR Long kit are the correct length and installed per the instructions I cant see any reason for or any way for them to be hanging out like yours are.

Its worth noting the Landpride instructions put the 3rd function ahead of the loader valve and WR Long puts it after the loader valve. That cant be more than a couple inches difference in hose length.

If you could post a picture of the 3rd function valve and hoses with the rear wheel removed we might be able to see what is wrong.

Dan
I wonder why they don't have those instructions easily available on their site?

The WR Long instructions are easier to read. They're also less informative. If you know these tractors well you don't need the extra info from the Land Pride kit. Or you can find it elsewhere.
But if you are doing this for the first time it's nice to have the extra info in one spot. Speaking as someone who installed the Land Pride kit for the first time. :) For example, what/where/which connector is the power beyond port?
I'm guessing the WR Long kit is also more generic and less fitted specifically to the BX.

The other thing I wonder is how are the lines that WR Long supplies. Judging by the instructions all 4 hoses are identical (they don't differentiate between any of the 4). And they don't list any fittings/adapters.
Connecting straight lines to the loader valve and to the hose with the 90* fitting is most likely going to create placement issues with the lines. Which would explain (some of) the installation mess.

Also, the Land Pride kit is connected in a different place, and routed very differently than the WR kit.
I don't have time to go into detail now; I'll try to come back to this later.
 
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TheOldHokie

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I wonder why they don't have those instructions easily available on their site?

The WR Long instructions are easier to read. They're also less informative. If you know these tractors well you don't need the extra info from the Land Pride kit. Or you can find it elsewhere.
But if you are doing this for the first time it's nice to have the extra info in one spot. Speaking as someone who installed the Land Pride kit for the first time. :) For example, what/where/which connector is the power beyond port?
I'm guessing the WR Long kit is also more generic and less fitted specifically to the BX.

The other thing I wonder is how are the lines that WR Long supplies. Judging by the instructions all 4 hoses are identical (they don't differentiate between any of the 4). And they don't list any fittings/adapters.
Connecting straight lines to the loader valve and to the hose with the 90* fitting is most likely going to create placement issues with the lines. Which would explain (some of) the installation mess.

Also, the Land Pride kit is connected in a different place, and routed very differently than the WR kit.
I don't have time to go into detail now; I'll try to come back to this later.
I think we've got the differences in placement and routing. Thats notvreally the concern. Whats missing is what is wrong with the dealers execution on the WR Long kit.

Dan
 

GreensvilleJay

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One problem, if I read the WR instructions correctly, is that their valve is bolted to the deck,so it adds to the 'fun' when removing the fuel tank on a BX23S !
 

Soopitup

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I think we've got the differences in placement and routing. Thats notvreally the concern. Whats missing is what is wrong with the dealers execution on the WR Long kit.

Dan
I was referencing below. There is much more than a couple of inches difference in hose length.

Its worth noting the Landpride instructions put the 3rd function ahead of the loader valve and WR Long puts it after the loader valve. That cant be more than a couple inches difference in hose length.
Its also worth noting that at one point the WR Long instructions plumbed the third function directly off the pump and used the 3rd function to feed the loader valve. I dont know if thats still the case but there is a good argument to be made for that arrangement given the design of loader valves in general and Kubota loader valves in particular.

Dan
This is basically how the Land Pride kit is set up.
The pump outlet is on top of the transmission, it couples to a line that loops around to the right side to the block where Land Pride has you connect one of the lines. The other end of the setup feeds the loader valve.
The BX23S inserts the backhoe between the pump outlet and the line that loops around.

One problem, if I read the WR instructions correctly, is that their valve is bolted to the deck,so it adds to the 'fun' when removing the fuel tank on a BX23S !
I'd be more worried about hitting the valve that's hanging off the side of the tractor unprotected.
 
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TheOldHokie

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I was referencing below. There is much more than a couple of inches difference in hose length.





This is basically how the Land Pride kit is set up.
The pump outlet is on top of the transmission, it couples to a line that loops around to the right side to the block where Land Pride has you connect one of the lines. The other end of the setup feeds the loader valve.
The BX23S inserts the backhoe between the pump outlet and the line that loops around.



I'd be more worried about hitting the valve that's hanging off the side of the tractor unprotected.
I dont have a BX23s and all I have to go on is the Kubota parts diagrams and hydraulic schematic in the WSM. As I understand them the backhoe valve is connected to the pump and feeds the hydraulic outlet block on the side of the top cover via its PB port. The power beyond port is connected to a pipe bolted to the side of the transmission and it connects to the outlet block via an internal passage in the top cover casting.

The loader valve is connected to the hydraulic outlet block with two short hoses as shown below.

1000001209.jpg

As I read the Land Pride instructions they connect the 3rd function between the P port on the outlet block and the P port on the loader valve (hose #20). That puts the 3rd function ahead of the loader valve.

The WR Long instructions connect the 3rd function between the PB port on the hydraulic outlet block and the PB port on the loader valve (hose #10). That puts the 3rd function after the loader valve.

Have I got that wrong?

Dan
 
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Rayvil01

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I wonder why they don't have those instructions easily available on their site?

The WR Long instructions are easier to read. They're also less informative. If you know these tractors well you don't need the extra info from the Land Pride kit. Or you can find it elsewhere.
But if you are doing this for the first time it's nice to have the extra info in one spot. Speaking as someone who installed the Land Pride kit for the first time. :) For example, what/where/which connector is the power beyond port?
I'm guessing the WR Long kit is also more generic and less fitted specifically to the BX.

The other thing I wonder is how are the lines that WR Long supplies. Judging by the instructions all 4 hoses are identical (they don't differentiate between any of the 4). And they don't list any fittings/adapters.
Connecting straight lines to the loader valve and to the hose with the 90* fitting is most likely going to create placement issues with the lines. Which would explain (some of) the installation mess.

Also, the Land Pride kit is connected in a different place, and routed very differently than the WR kit.
I don't have time to go into detail now; I'll try to come back to this later.
Thanks. Good info. I don't know why WR Long has the website that way. But, I called them and they emailed the
not an ideal install thats for sure. i would not be happy. I would want to make some changes to the hose routing for sure. Hopefully a couple of new hoses and some elbow grease will get that fixed right up as the "smarts" of what hooks to what already made.


would love to hear:
- who choose a non OEM kit?
- is there a reason a non OEM was decided better than a Kubota factory kit?
I didn't make that call. The Dealer did. And, I'm not even sure Kubota offers one. Not sure why. Suspect it has to do with trade agreements. The only Kubota implements of the ones I got are the loader and backhoe
 
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Rayvil01

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I wonder why they don't have those instructions easily available on their site?

The WR Long instructions are easier to read. They're also less informative. If you know these tractors well you don't need the extra info from the Land Pride kit. Or you can find it elsewhere.
But if you are doing this for the first time it's nice to have the extra info in one spot. Speaking as someone who installed the Land Pride kit for the first time. :) For example, what/where/which connector is the power beyond port?
I'm guessing the WR Long kit is also more generic and less fitted specifically to the BX.

The other thing I wonder is how are the lines that WR Long supplies. Judging by the instructions all 4 hoses are identical (they don't differentiate between any of the 4). And they don't list any fittings/adapters.
Connecting straight lines to the loader valve and to the hose with the 90* fitting is most likely going to create placement issues with the lines. Which would explain (some of) the installation mess.

Also, the Land Pride kit is connected in a different place, and routed very differently than the WR kit.
I don't have time to go into detail now; I'll try to come back to this later.
IDK why the instructions aren't on the site. I called them and they emailed them out within 10 minutes. The Owner's Manual has a lot of detail that would probably answer most of your questions. I tried to load it here but the file is too big (6MB).
 

TheOldHokie

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IDK why the instructions aren't on the site. I called them and they emailed them out within 10 minutes. The Owner's Manual has a lot of detail that would probably answer most of your questions. I tried to load it here but the file is too big (6MB).
The WSM has a very good description of the hydrauluc outlet block - see below. The P port feeds the loader valve and the PB port is the return to the 3pt valve.

Landpride installs the 3rd function in place of the hose connected to the P port. Thats ahead of the loader valve and a bit unusual.

WR Long installs the 3rd function in place of the PB hose which is after the loader valve and more usual.

Dan

1000001210.jpg
 
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Rayvil01

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The WSM has a very good description of the hydrauluc outlet block - see below. The P port feeds the loader valve and the PB port is the return to the 3pt valve.

Landpride installs the 3rd function in place of the hose connected to the P port. Thats ahead of the loader valve and a bit unusual.

WR Long installs the 3rd function in place of the PB hose which is after the loader valve and more usual.

Dan

View attachment 143559
Thanks for the info. Good stuff.
 

Soopitup

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I dont have a BX23s and all I have to go on is the Kubota parts diagrams and hydraulic schematic in the WSM. "........"

Have I got that wrong?

Dan
No, you got it right. That's how the routing goes.

When you said this

Its worth noting the Landpride instructions put the 3rd function ahead of the loader valve and WR Long puts it after the loader valve. That cant be more than a couple inches difference in hose length.
Dan
At first I thought you were saying the length of the hoses in the 2 different kits should be almost the same length. Which I was trying to explain wasn't the case, not even close.

Then I realized you must be saying the distance between where the Land Pride connects and where the WR Long connects is so close it's only a couple of inches in hose length difference (if you tried to run the WR hoses to the Land Pride connection). Which is a lot closer to accurate, but not quite that simple because of exactly where on the tractor the 2 ports are.
The WR Long connects on the front inside of the fender, facing the tire tread, directly underneath the joystick.
The Land Pride connects on the inside of the fender, facing the wall of the tire, roughly directly above the axle.
In a direct line it's roughly 13 inches. But the tire is in the way, so you have to go around a corner. And route the hose around other hoses and brackets, keeping it away from the tire.
And you have to take into account the angle of attachment of the line. You can't just attach a straight line directly to it.
There's no way you could run a line designed to attach to the loader valve to that block and have it reach the other end it was supposed to.

Or it's possible you meant something else.


I'm not trying to find small details that you got wrong so I can call you on it, nor am I trying to give you a hard time in general.

I'm always learning

I don't have any of the instructions but the only "caution" I know of is to NEVER use the backhoe tank return for power beyond.

In other words use the loader valve power beyond to feed the third functuon if possible and NEVER use the backhoe tank return. That applies to ALL Kubota backhoes that do not have a power beyond port and in particular the BT600 used on the BX22D and BX23D. Those backhoes must ALWAYS be the last valve in the chain. The BT603 used on the BX23S is unique in that it has a power beyond port and can go anywhere in the chain.

Dan
For example, this helped me because I hadn't realized why they warned about the backhoe. Now I understand most backhoes don't have a power beyond, so hooking up after them would create problems.
Not a specific issue on the BX, but good to know for future reference.

You obviously are very good at reading hydraulic schematics and parts diagrams. And you have years of experience, at least with your tractors (possibly more, I don't know).

I (and some others) have minimal experience with tractors specifically, however I have years and years of mechanical experience in multiple fields. Once I learned the specific tractor terminology I don't need my hand held on every little detail, I can extrapolate information and figure things out.

Not everyone on here (or unregistered readers) have that ability. Which is why I try to include as much minute detail as I can. And explain why so they hopefully will learn something they can apply to the next problem or question that they have.

I also have the luxury of having the specific tractor accessible to me (if you notice, I very rarely give advice on anything other than the BX). Parts diagrams and pictures can't completely make up for having the exact thing in front of you in 3D detail.

For example

The WSM has a very good description of the hydrauluc outlet block - see below. The P port feeds the loader valve and the PB port is the return to the 3pt valve.

Landpride installs the 3rd function in place of the hose connected to the P port. Thats ahead of the loader valve and a bit unusual.

WR Long installs the 3rd function in place of the PB hose which is after the loader valve and more usual.

Dan

View attachment 143559
Land Pride has you connect the feed (P?) for the 3rd function to the P port on that block; the return connects to the P ( I believe it's the P) port on the loader valve. It actually replaces the P hose (I have pictures somewhere of this stuff).
The WR Long kit doesn't replace the PB hose, it's inserted into the circuit, like how the backhoe is inserted into the circuit. The feed hose connects to the PB port on the loader valve and the return hose connects to the PB hose where it used to connect to the loader valve.

You may or may not have been aware; it's important to note that the WR Long kit doesn't connect to that block that part of the Land Pride kit connects to, it connects directly to the loader valve and a hose that used to connect to the loader valve (2 hoses need 2 connections).
 

Soopitup

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I didn't make that call. The Dealer did. And, I'm not even sure Kubota offers one. Not sure why. Suspect it has to do with trade agreements. The only Kubota implements of the ones I got are the loader and backhoe
Kubota makes a diverter valve kit. Similar to a third function but it diverts pressure away from one circuit to feed another while a third function allows multiple circuits to work at the same time.
In this case the diverter valve temporarily replaces the curl function. You can't curl and run your implement at the same time.

Land Pride is owned by Kubota. So effectively it's OEM, though depending on the exact definition you used it may not technically be OEM.
They have access to more information and have more resources than aftermarket companies.

Land Pride makes a third function kit for your tractor (the one we've been talking about).
Without ever having used or held the WR Long (or any other) kit, I feel the Land Pride is better, for reasons I've outlined.

Both are available through the dealer or online.

Once your WR Long kit is sorted I'm sure it will work fine.
 
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TheOldHokie

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No, you got it right. That's how the routing goes.

When you said this



At first I thought you were saying the length of the hoses in the 2 different kits should be almost the same length. Which I was trying to explain wasn't the case, not even close.

Then I realized you must be saying the distance between where the Land Pride connects and where the WR Long connects is so close it's only a couple of inches in hose length difference (if you tried to run the WR hoses to the Land Pride connection). Which is a lot closer to accurate, but not quite that simple because of exactly where on the tractor the 2 ports are.
The WR Long connects on the front inside of the fender, facing the tire tread, directly underneath the joystick.
The Land Pride connects on the inside of the fender, facing the wall of the tire, roughly directly above the axle.
In a direct line it's roughly 13 inches. But the tire is in the way, so you have to go around a corner. And route the hose around other hoses and brackets, keeping it away from the tire.
And you have to take into account the angle of attachment of the line. You can't just attach a straight line directly to it.
There's no way you could run a line designed to attach to the loader valve to that block and have it reach the other end it was supposed to.

Or it's possible you meant something else.


I'm not trying to find small details that you got wrong so I can call you on it, nor am I trying to give you a hard time in general.

I'm always learning



For example, this helped me because I hadn't realized why they warned about the backhoe. Now I understand most backhoes don't have a power beyond, so hooking up after them would create problems.
Not a specific issue on the BX, but good to know for future reference.

You obviously are very good at reading hydraulic schematics and parts diagrams. And you have years of experience, at least with your tractors (possibly more, I don't know).

I (and some others) have minimal experience with tractors specifically, however I have years and years of mechanical experience in multiple fields. Once I learned the specific tractor terminology I don't need my hand held on every little detail, I can extrapolate information and figure things out.

Not everyone on here (or unregistered readers) have that ability. Which is why I try to include as much minute detail as I can. And explain why so they hopefully will learn something they can apply to the next problem or question that they have.

I also have the luxury of having the specific tractor accessible to me (if you notice, I very rarely give advice on anything other than the BX). Parts diagrams and pictures can't completely make up for having the exact thing in front of you in 3D detail.

For example



Land Pride has you connect the feed (P?) for the 3rd function to the P port on that block; the return connects to the P ( I believe it's the P) port on the loader valve. It actually replaces the P hose (I have pictures somewhere of this stuff).
The WR Long kit doesn't replace the PB hose, it's inserted into the circuit, like how the backhoe is inserted into the circuit. The feed hose connects to the PB port on the loader valve and the return hose connects to the PB hose where it used to connect to the loader valve.

You may or may not have been aware; it's important to note that the WR Long kit doesn't connect to that block that part of the Land Pride kit connects to, it connects directly to the loader valve and a hose that used to connect to the loader valve (2 hoses need 2 connections).
I have no idea what you are describing. Let me make it real simple. As I read the instructions the two kits are installed as shown below.

The Landpride kit replaces the pump supply hose - #20 in the diagram
The WR Long kit replaces the power beyond hose - #10 in the diagram.

Dan

Untitled.png
 
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Soopitup

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I have no idea what you are describing. Let me make it real simple. As I read the instructions the two kits are installed as shown below.

The Landpride kit replaces the pump supply hose - #20 in the diagram
The WR Long kit replaces the power beyond hose - #10 in the diagram.

Dan

View attachment 143588
You are correct about the Land Pride kit.
Incorrect about the WR Long kit.

Per their instructions (I've never done this) one "side" of the WR Long kit connects to the PB port of the loader valve while the other "side" connects to the hose end that was disconnected from the PB port.
It doesn't replace hose number 10, it is inserted between the loader valve and the left side (marked A in the diagram) of hose number 10.
Step 3 of the WR Long instructions.

"Connect one of the 3/8" hoses provided in the
kit to the hose end just removed from the power
beyond port
and connect the other end to the
"T" port on the W. R. Long valve."
 

TheOldHokie

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You are correct about the Land Pride kit.
Incorrect about the WR Long kit.

Per their instructions (I've never done this) one "side" of the WR Long kit connects to the PB port of the loader valve while the other "side" connects to the hose end that was disconnected from the PB port.
It doesn't replace hose number 10, it is inserted between the loader valve and the left side (marked A in the diagram) of hose number 10.
Step 3 of the WR Long instructions.

"Connect one of the 3/8" hoses provided in the
kit to the hose end just removed from the power
beyond port
and connect the other end to the
"T" port on the W. R. Long valve."
Ok fine - they are usimg the OEM hose as an extensiom but circuit wise it amounts to the same thing.

Dan
 

Rayvil01

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Kubota makes a diverter valve kit. Similar to a third function but it diverts pressure away from one circuit to feed another while a third function allows multiple circuits to work at the same time.
In this case the diverter valve temporarily replaces the curl function. You can't curl and run your implement at the same time.

Land Pride is owned by Kubota. So effectively it's OEM, though depending on the exact definition you used it may not technically be OEM.
They have access to more information and have more resources than aftermarket companies.

Land Pride makes a third function kit for your tractor (the one we've been talking about).
Without ever having used or held the WR Long (or any other) kit, I feel the Land Pride is better, for reasons I've outlined.

Both are available through the dealer or online.

Once your WR Long kit is sorted I'm sure it will work fine.
Very interesting. I have no idea why a Kubota Dealer would use something other than a Kubota-owned company's product. Maybe it's a local thing. I called six regional Kubota Dealers. Every one said they would install the WR Long kit by default. WR Long is a NC company. Maybe that's it. IDK. Thanks for all the help.
 

Rayvil01

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UPDATE: The Dealer re-did the installation. It's nice and tidy now. I tightened up the electrical cables after this pic. All good.

Many thanks for all the help on this. The hidden blessing to all of this was that I learned a lot about the hydraulics. Wasn't looking to do that when I bought the tractor. I was just hoping to push buttons and work the joystick. LOL That bubble burst pretty quickly.

20241205_133431.jpg
20241205_133425.jpg
 
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TheOldHokie

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UPDATE: The Dealer re-did the installation. It's nice and tidy now. I tightened up the electrical cables after this pic. All good.

Many thanks for all the help on this. The hidden blessing to all of this was that I learned a lot about the hydraulics. Wasn't looking to do that when I bought the tractor. I was just hoping to push buttons and work the joystick. LOL That bubble burst pretty quickly.

View attachment 143629 View attachment 143630
Trust me. You will have something else happen down the road and understanding the hydraulic circuit will will make it easier to diagnose anf fix.

Dan
 
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MapleLeafFarmer

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Thanks. Good info. I don't know why WR Long has the website that way. But, I called them and they emailed the

I didn't make that call. The Dealer did. And, I'm not even sure Kubota offers one. Not sure why. Suspect it has to do with trade agreements. The only Kubota implements of the ones I got are the loader and backhoe

thanks... if dealer made the call to go non OEM (ie: non Landpride / non kubota) I too would not be too pleased.

glad they make amends for you.

I recently had a Land Pride 3rd added to a different tractor (L series) by my Kubota dealer and the hoses are all tucked up and out of the way, zip tied, and covered with hose safe sleeves to protect hoses from abrasion and UV damage and operator injury in case of leaks. Was just what my dealer did.

No first hand experience similar to yours as i have never seen a bx tractor in real life.
 
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