BX 23S Third-Function Question

[Soopitup]

hmm..doesn't the kit come with 'installation steps' ??

BTW a 'pro' is just someone you PAY to make misteaks.....

I don't know if specific instructions come with the kit, but their installation video online is generic, not specific to the particular tractor.

A pro (in theory anyways) has more experience than most. Unless it's brand new they've probably done the job multiple times.

I've seen SO many driveway mechanics thinking they know all about something because they've done some work on a couple of vehicles.

Doesn't mean a pro won't screw up. There are plenty that are incompetent or just don't care.
But generally they have more experience and resources than the average person.

 

[Soopitup]

Landpride makes at least two different "OEM" kits for the BX80/LA340.

Here is one that is for all practical purposes identical to the $700 Summit kit. Messicks wants $1150 plus shipping.

View attachment 143394

That's for an older BX, not the 80 series. Or even the 70 series?
See where the joystick is mounted? It's on the right fender for the 80 and I think 70 series.

I stand corrected.
That's a 70 series I think.
Either way that kit won't work for an 80 series. The loader valve is in a different location and the quick disconnect for the loader hydraulic lines would be in the way.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I stand corrected.
That's a 70 series I think.
Either way that kit won't work for an 80 series. The loader valve is in a different location and the quick disconnect for the loader hydraulic lines would be in the way.

Messicks thinks differently because they explicitly state its for the BX80.

Here is their other BX80 kit - presumably the one you have. It lists for $895 plus shipping.

Dan

 

[Soopitup]

Messicks thinks differently because they explicitly state its for the BX80.

Here is their other BX80 kit - presumably the one you have. It lists for $895 plus shipping.

Dan

View attachment 143397

Those are Land Pride kits? What are the part numbers?
Unless the loader valve is under the right fender and not under the joystick that first kit wouldn't work for an 80 series.
That second kit looks nothing like mine.

 

[Soopitup]

From the Land Pride site

BX 60/70 series 3rd function
380-337A and 380-137A

https://cdn-assets.greatplainsmfg.com/ari/attach/lp/public/manuals/380-145m.pdf

BX 80 series 3rd function
380-339A and 380-289A

https://cdn-assets.greatplainsmfg.com/ari/attach/lp/public/manuals/380-304m.pdf

I believe the difference in part numbers is for pioneer vs flat face couplers.

 

[Soopitup]

There's a Kubota diverter valve kit. That's cheaper I think.
That's not that picture either though.

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

not an ideal install thats for sure. i would not be happy. I would want to make some changes to the hose routing for sure. Hopefully a couple of new hoses and some elbow grease will get that fixed right up as the "smarts" of what hooks to what already made.


would love to hear:
- who choose a non OEM kit?
- is there a reason a non OEM was decided better than a Kubota factory kit?

 

[TheOldHokie]

There's a Kubota diverter valve kit. That's cheaper I think.
That's not that picture either though.

Like I said - lots of different Landpride kits.

I assumed the second one I pictured (380-289A) was the one you have. Messicks lists it is for use on multuple BX80 series tractors including the BX23S-1

The only 3rd function diverter kits I have seen are used in conjunction with a 3rd function valve and allow the joystick 3rd function to control an addituonal cylinder for hydraulic latching/unlatching of the SSQA.

Bottom line is either the WR Long kit used by that dealer is wrong, the installation was botched, or both.

Dan

 

[Soopitup]

I see what happened.
Someone at Messicks wasn't paying attention.
Quick search for "Messicks BX23s third function kit" brings this up.

First hit takes you to a page with all their Kubota third function kits.
Scroll to the LA340/344 and you get this.

kubota third function valve kit for LA340 and LA344

kubota third function valve kit for LA340 and LA344

www.messicks.com

Lists 4 options in a row
Starting from the left, first 2 are the correct part numbers but wrong pictures.
Third is the Kubota diverter valve kit. Wrong picture again. 4th is the WR Long kit, not sure if it's the correct picture or not.

 

[Soopitup]

Like I said - lots of different Landpride kits.

I assumed the second one I pictured (380-289A) was the one you have. Messicks lists it is for use on multuple BX80 series tractors including the BX23S-1

The only 3rd function diverter kits I have seen are used in conjunction with a 3rd function valve and allow the joystick 3rd function to control an addituonal cylinder for hydraulic latching/unlatching of the SSQA.

Bottom line is either the WR Long kit used by that dealer is wrong, the installation was botched, or both.

Dan

We definitely agree the dealer is at fault and should fix it.
If the fit was that off they should have said something.

Specifically for the BX,
There are 2 Land Pride 80 series kits. They are identical except for the connectors at the loader. One has flat face couplers and one has pioneer couplers.
The 60/70 series has 2 different kits. Identical except for the couplers.
There is 1 Kubota kit; the diverter valve. It's got an electrical switch controlling a valve mounted on the loader. In place of, not in conjunction with, a third function.
I believe this fits 60/70/80 series.
Plus multiple aftermarket third function.

It's very possible some/all of the aftermarket kits were designed for 60/70 series and are also listed for the 80 series even though they don't really fit.
Also, the earlier 80 series loader didn't have the attached stand and quick disconnect. I believe at least the Summit kit was designed for this older loader. It doesn't fit well with the new loader that has the stand and quick attach. Unless that kit has been changed since I looked at it last year.

Messicks is cheaper than my dealer (I found that out recently). Makes sense considering the size comparison.

As far as the backhoe caution in the instructions, that's a generic warning and doesn't apply to the 80 series, and I don't think the 60/70 series either. Even Land Pride has it in there for some reason.
Unless you mounted an aftermarket backhoe, in which case you have to figure out a "custom" setup.

 

[TheOldHokie]

We definitely agree the dealer is at fault and should fix it.
If the fit was that off they should have said something.

Specifically for the BX,
There are 2 Land Pride 80 series kits. They are identical except for the connectors at the loader. One has flat face couplers and one has pioneer couplers.
The 60/70 series has 2 different kits. Identical except for the couplers.
There is 1 Kubota kit; the diverter valve. It's got an electrical switch controlling a valve mounted on the loader. In place of, not in conjunction with, a third function.
I believe this fits 60/70/80 series.
Plus multiple aftermarket third function.

It's very possible some/all of the aftermarket kits were designed for 60/70 series and are also listed for the 80 series even though they don't really fit.
Also, the earlier 80 series loader didn't have the attached stand and quick disconnect. I believe at least the Summit kit was designed for this older loader. It doesn't fit well with the new loader that has the stand and quick attach. Unless that kit has been changed since I looked at it last year.

Messicks is cheaper than my dealer (I found that out recently). Makes sense considering the size comparison.

As far as the backhoe caution in the instructions, that's a generic warning and doesn't apply to the 80 series, and I don't think the 60/70 series either. Even Land Pride has it in there for some reason.
Unless you mounted an aftermarket backhoe, in which case you have to figure out a "custom" setup.

Goos info but what backhoe caution?

 

[Soopitup]

Goos info but what backhoe caution?

Do you have a backhoe on that tractor?

Dan

Just making sure. I am thinking that the kit may not be meant for a tractor with a hoe and they cobbled it into the backhoe lines anyway.

Dan

You mentioned it in this thread? *Found it*
It's also on page 3 of the 80 series instructions. And on at least some of the aftermarket instructions.

The Land Pride caution specifically states not to connect to the loader power beyond if it feeds rear implements like the backhoe. Others mention something like caution with backhoe.
It's a generic caution reference and not actually pertinent to the 80 series. I'm guess the 60/70 series either.
The 80 series at least runs the rear implements and backhoe off the pump, before the line to the loader valve. So unless you're running something aftermarket you hooked up to the loader valve (shouldn't be because the option to run off the rear is already there, and it's easier) there are no rear implements running off the loader valve or anywhere near it. And no kits designed for non backhoe BXs.

*I added that in because I remember when I installed mine that threw me for a loop, and I spent some time digging around and making sure it didn't apply to me.
I figure that should save someone a little bit of time and hassle.*

 

[TheOldHokie]

You mentioned it in this thread? *Found it*
It's also on page 3 of the 80 series instructions. And on at least some of the aftermarket instructions.

The Land Pride caution specifically states not to connect to the loader power beyond if it feeds rear implements like the backhoe. Others mention something like caution with backhoe.
It's a generic caution reference and not actually pertinent to the 80 series. I'm guess the 60/70 series either.
The 80 series at least runs the rear implements and backhoe off the pump, before the line to the loader valve. So unless you're running something aftermarket you hooked up to the loader valve (shouldn't be because the option to run off the rear is already there, and it's easier) there are no rear implements running off the loader valve or anywhere near it. And no kits designed for non backhoe BXs.

*I added that in because I remember when I installed mine that threw me for a loop, and I spent some time digging around and making sure it didn't apply to me.
I figure that should save someone a little bit of time and hassle.*

This is how these installations get screwed up and may well be part of the problem with tgat dealer installation.

I don't have any of the instructions but the only "caution" I know of is to NEVER use the backhoe tank return for power beyond.

In other words use the loader valve power beyond to feed the third functuon if possible and NEVER use the backhoe tank return. That applies to ALL Kubota backhoes that do not have a power beyond port and in particular the BT600 used on the BX22D and BX23D. Those backhoes must ALWAYS be the last valve in the chain. The BT603 used on the BX23S is unique in that it has a power beyond port and can go anywhere in the chain.

Its also worth noting that at one point the WR Long instructions plumbed the third function directly off the pump and used the 3rd function to feed the loader valve. I dont know if thats still the case but there is a good argument to be made for that arrangement given the design of loader valves in general and Kubota loader valves in particular.

Dan

 

[Rayvil01]

I definitely agree with that.



Really? MSRP for the WR Long kit is $925. I paid $1399? for the Land Pride kit. I did the installation myself.

I must have gotten something twisted. Sorry. Thanks.

 

[Rayvil01]

hmm..doesn't the kit come with 'installation steps' ??

BTW a 'pro' is just someone you PAY to make misteaks.....

Yes. And, the installer didn't pay much attention to them.

 

[Rayvil01]

This is how these installations get screwed up and may well be part of the problem with tgat dealer installation.

I don't have any of the instructions but the only "caution" I know of is to NEVER use the backhoe tank return for power beyond.

In other words use the loader valve power beyond to feed the third functuon if possible and NEVER use the backhoe tank return. That applies to ALL Kubota backhoes that do not have a power beyond port and in particular the BT600 used on the BX22D and BX23D. Those backhoes must ALWAYS be the last valve in the chain. The BT603 used on the BX23S is unique in that it has a power beyond port and can go anywhere in the chain.

Its also worth noting that at one point the WR Long instructions plumbed the third function directly off the pump and used the 3rd function to feed the loader valve. I dont know if thats still the case but there is a good argument to be made for that arrangement given the design of loader valves in general and Kubota loader valves in particular.

Dan

Thanks. I'll have to do more research. The WR Long instructions talk about the "Power Beyond Port." Whatever that is.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Thanks. I'll have to do more research. The WR Long instructions talk about the "Power Beyond Port." Whatever that is.

Thanks. I'll have to do more research. The WR Long instructions talk about the "Power Beyond Port." Whatever that is.

The power beyond port is pump pressure supply. Can you post a copy of the instrctions for the 3rd functions.

Dan

 

[Rayvil01]

The power beyond port is pump pressure supply. Can you post a copy of the instrctions for the 3rd functions.

Dan

Here you go:

 

[TheOldHokie]

Here you go:

IMO those WR Long instructions are actually far more understandable than the Landpride instructions.

If the hoses in the WR Long kit are the correct length and installed per the instructions I cant see any reason for or any way for them to be hanging out like yours are.

Its worth noting the Landpride instructions put the 3rd function ahead of the loader valve and WR Long puts it after the loader valve. That cant be more than a couple inches difference in hose length.

If you could post a picture of the 3rd function valve and hoses with the rear wheel removed we might be able to see what is wrong.

Dan

 

[Rayvil01]

IMO those WR Long instructions are actually far more understandable than the Landpride instructions.

If the hoses in the WR Long kit are the correct length and installed per the instructions I cant see any reason for or any way for them to be hanging out like yours are.

Its worth noting the Landpride instructions put the 3rd function ahead of the loader valve and WR Long puts it after the loader valve. That cant be more than a couple inches difference in hose length.

If you could post a picture of the 3rd function valve and hoses with the rear wheel removed we might be able to see what is wrong.

Dan

The Dealer has the tractor. They fetched it within two hours of my contacting them. I'll have to see what things look like when they return it. Thanks for the info. I was waiting to get it back to post an update here.