Brand new L4701 lost oil plug and run dry

[twomany]

Better in the shop than out in the field

As this thread shows plane as day.

Your 1/4 turn must be different than mine. Or perhaps we start with different levels of "snug". I know I can do it without failure. In fact, in all these years, I've never lost a drain plug nor stripped one. Must have done over a thousand (worked in a CAT shop in my younger days) Never used a torque wrench for drain plugs, probably never will.

You would think that if the plug was loose enough to fall out, it would be loose enough to leak. And so announce it's intent to jump ship even as it was in the dealership for prep, or while parked with the owner.

Is there no compliant sealing element in the drain plug design? Not an Alu or Cu crush washer, No captured elastomer ? If not, that would be a problem.

What an unfortunate set of conditions.

 

[L4060]

What are the torq spec on the oil drain plugs?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I started torquing at 35lbs, I think that may be high I found a listing of a most vehicles and it was 18-20 for just about all of them. I have a friend that works at a quick lube and apparently it's pretty common on cars, they just use an over size plug of some type if it's stripped, more reason not to use a quick lube place. I didn't want to risk metal chunks being in the pan from the threads, a new pan was only $175 so I went that route instead of re threading it. I have been changing oil for a long time, that surprised me how easy it stripped, that was the first time I had ever stripped one.

 

[RCW]

What!
Drain plugs are "snug, then 1/4 turn!, Check for leaks."
Techno is a failed discipline.

Guess I'll have to disagree with that one also. Might have worked 40 years ago. Aluminum pans changed all that.

Honestly, I sometimes forget myself.

I might have to think about using a torque wrench. A friend bought a BX2370 while back - cautioned him on the plug - just snug. We're both former farm boys - not our first rodeo, but times have changed.

 

[twomany]

Guess I'll have to disagree with that one also. Might have worked 40 years ago. Aluminum pans changed all that.

Honestly, I sometimes forget myself.

I might have to think about using a torque wrench. A friend bought a BX2370 while back - cautioned him on the plug - just snug. We're both former farm boys - not our first rodeo, but times have changed.

Are you saying there is no compliant sealing element ?
that is, the next increment after "snug" is stripped? Poor design!.

 

[helomech]

I have never used a torque wrench on a drain plug, or any other part of a tractor, except certain engine components.

 

[coachgeo]

ENOUGH ON THE TORQUING Tool use....... we get it. Beating a Dead Horse now and continuing that part of the topic is just trashing this fellows thread.

Don't want to close it so he can come back and report as the dealer updates him.


Any more torquing to spec. responses will be deleted.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

The OP has insurance so he's covered no matter what, so that's great!
Will keep this open for the OP's sake.
I feel bad because I fueled this fire along with others, but enough is enough.
Thank all of you for your comments and input, but let's call it a day wait for the OP to give us some more info.
If you don't like it, or anything I've posted, or done, send me a PM or start your own thread or not.

 

[ipz2222]

Hope op took pictures of the short oil trail and the fact he left the tractor in the field. Will help to prove he did no further damage as soon as he noticed the problem.
Was using the fel last week and noticed the right frame mount move when I picked up the dirt. Cked the bolts and all were loose on the frame. One was half cut into. Fel was dealer installed , tractor has 230 hrs on it. All those bolts now have red Loctite on them.

 

[lugbolt]

One of the checks in the dealer's predelivery inspection sheet is to check the drain bolt torque of all of the drain bolts. Thus, if dealer contacts Kubota, Kubota might throw it back to the dealer. Then, if the PDI sheet has it checked off, they'll put the responsibility back to the owner. Then you get to use your insurance, and the insurance may declare it a total loss due to the cost of the engine and associated parts that get replaced along with the engine.

Did you get a copy of the PDI sheet when you signed all the paperwork at time of purchase? This is a commonly missed-or neglected-important piece of paperwork. When I did dealer work, I called it legal paperwork-because I considered a legal document that protected the dealer if a situation were to arise. It is important. Lot of dealers don't fill them out because it takes about 30 minutes or so to do a proper PDI on a tractor. And then there's the loader-which has it's own PDI, and any implement or attachment. Up to an hour if it's got a loader and bush hog, etc.

The burned oil smell from the stick is a tell tale. The engine is smoked. IMO, it needs to be replaced, not rebuilt, not "fixed". Replaced. Engine oil cooks at about 350 degrees and higher. So it was hot, even though the temp gauge didn't show it (it reads coolant temp not oil temp).

 

[Ian SAVS]

The dealer could be doing more IMO

So a brief update, the dealership was able to recover the tractor using a track loader to pull it up the hill. That was Thursday last week. So they've had it for a week now, and I finally called today since I had heard nothing. Was told that they sent all the information to Kabota and we're just waiting on a reply from them.(Made it sound like that sent the info off a while ago).

I called KTAC and spoke with David, the insurance adjuster assigned to my case. He revealed that he had only received the information and photographs from the dealership this morning (apparently they just took a picture of the tractor, did not tear the engine down or anything). So it took them a week to take a picture and send an email. David said he would look at their estimates (apparently for a complete engine swap) and get back to me by the end of the day. I'm a little bit pissed at the dealer for dragging their feet on this when I have two implements sitting out in the weather and the backlog of stuff to do. Especially since signs point to a failed PDI checklist item.

 

[Benza]

In this case of events, the dealer would be liable for the drain plug falling out like that. I work at a Kubota dealership as a technician and setup, and our inspection sheets include checking over everything.

https://imgur.com/a/88P9s

This is the form for the L-series tractors. You'll notice the "All drain plugs properly torqued" section. I know that the previous setup tech before me would half-@ss his job and just check off every box when a new unit was sold. Unacceptable.

In regards to what is going to happen with your tractor, I'm going to assume they'll just replace the engine under warranty (hopefully). It's not an incredibly horrible thing to do, but it's not exactly quick. Rebuilding it would take twice as long, and isn't cost effective, assuming that the dealer you bought the tractor from has the tools necessary to do it completely.

Best of luck though! Is there any way the dealer can give you a loaner tractor while they're taking care of yours?

 

[Pau7220]

Is there any way the dealer can give you a loaner tractor while they're taking care of yours?

This is the absolute least any reputable dealer should do in a situation like this !!!

 

[lugbolt]

This is the absolute least any reputable dealer should do in a situation like this !!!

What happens to the "loaner" tractor? From a dealer standpoint, if I were a dealer, and sold only new tractors (nothing used or rental), , and someone comes in wanting a loaner, what do I do? Loan him a brand new one? Then I get it back...with 20 hours on it, beat up scratched up and halfway to the 50 hour service....and if I were a dealer, how do I "eat" that cost? I'd be basically buying the owner a new tractor. If I had rentals and / or used equipment, it would be more understandable. Loan the owner a used or rental. If loaned a new tractor, and it comes back with any damage, the person who borrowed it would likely be held responsible for the repair costs as it left brand new. You guys understand how this is a nightmare on both the owner and dealer's end? I remember this from when I worked for a dealer. Car dealerships have everyone spoiled but they also have different circumstances.

If they replace the engine-which is what should be done (rebuilds on these are no fun), it'll cost them a ton of money. But that is the price to pay for non-compliance with the final inspection. That is, IF they even did it. If there is no inspection sheet on file, it does not look for the dealer. If there is, it can get pretty complicated and dealer will likely attempt to get Kubota to help them with the cost of repairs. Rebuild and replacement are likely close in price, assuming a rebuild is done correctly-and if the dealer is in fact at fault, and they choose to rebuild, ask them to include the remainder of the 3 year powertrain warranty on the engine rebuild. It shouldn't be an issue, or at least I don't think it would be. Again, I'm out of that business.

In fact, the cost of replacement of the engine and possibly the replacement cost of the DPF if it needs to be replaced may exceed what the tractor costs the dealer. That is the downside of the new Tier IV stuff-it's really expensive to have to repair. If that were the case, they may just give you a new tractor. I don't know. I'm out of the dealer business so I can't say for certainty.

 

[KennedyFarmer]

If I was a dealer I get a new one out to you. Then have the shop fix the broken unit and put that one out in the papers for a steal of a deal.

 

[skeets]

See the bottom line is, the guy stuck with out a tractor because somebody at the dealer screwed up, dont give a rats behind about what it cost the dealer,,, I have a new tractor that is, for all intents and purposes, junk because somebody there mucked it up,, Its that simple, aint no boohoo's from the guy thats out 30K for the dealer. Just be a stand up dealer and take care of it in a timely fashion, its that simple

 

[100 td]

If I was a dealer I get a new one out to you.

Just be a stand up dealer and take care of it in a timely fashion, its that simple

X2
12.5 hour old tractor
Dealer/Kubota coporate/insurance arrange a brand new replacement tractor for OP
Dealer/Kubota coporate/insurance sort repair and sale of used tractor.
Everybody happy, no negativity from OP or on the forums towards dealer/Kubota corporate.
Every positive about Dealer/Kubota corporate.
Kubota name/reputation intact. Kubota sales continue.
It's really that simple, and should have been that way from the start.

 

[twomany]

All though this part of the thread is drifting, I wonder....

Should the "dealer" take the money out of their line of credit with the bank to cover "giving away" the replacement tractor? Does Kubota "floor plan" and extract the interest after so many days? Or do they rely on commercial banks?)

Extend the bank LoC to make the repairs on the damaged engine ?

Just until the unit is resold of course, but with it's history, (after all the dealer must be transparent) It's not likely THAT tractor will resell quickly or at a high price.

Or maybe the dealer should advise his mechanics not to cash, or expect, pay checks for a few weeks while a "recovery" is made (I've been on that end of the business, SUCKS big time)

There are many considerations to make. Where is the insurance when you need it. ;-)

 

[Ian SAVS]

Insurance Fraud Much?!?

WOW!

So, new developments, and my self description right now is disappointed, frustrated, shocked, and angry.

KTAC has denied the claim. Apparently the dealership told KTAC that I hit a rock and that must have knocked the oil plug loose. This is a LIE. The pastures that I was mowing have been in existence for over 4 decades and there are no sizable or otherwise rocks to hit. Period. Apparently the dealership sent pictures in and KTAC poured over them trying to find any evidence of damage from said rock and could not so they denied the claim. Understandable.

At that point (Wednesday) I decided to go ahead and get a case started with Kubota Corp, because the dealer's actions at this point seemed less than honest.

I am glad I did.

Today I received a call from the case manager at KTAC.

The OWNER at the dealership called them to say that vandalism was the cause, and he wanted to check with me if that was a possibility.

AYFKM? Vandalism ? WTF!



This tractor was in a barn with countless other items to steal or vandalize, including a classic automobile, and the "vandals" not only brought the correct size wrench with them, but the ONLY thing they did was loosen the oil plug on a tractor.... really?!?!?!

I am livid.

I've just made a follow up call to Kubota Corp to update them on these developments and give them the direct number of the KTAC agent so they could get it straight from him, I believe that the case is now being escalated.

So, My tractor has been broken or gone since Labor Day, my implements have been in the weather for three weeks, I have had zero calls from the dealership since the tractor was picked up more than two weeks ago, and now the dealership wants me to be complacent, in what seems to me to be insurance fraud, to cover for their tech not preforming the PDI correctly. (Something I have failed to mentioned before is that the headlights of the tractor were not functioning when I took delivery of the machine, I had to follow the wire back from the headlights to a disconnected connector in the engine compartment. Another item that was marked as checked on the PDI)

Disappointed, frustrated, shocked, and angry.

 

[BillK01]

I'm shocked the dealer was stupid enough to change their story mid-stream like that and take that kind of chance.

I would imagine KTAC will be watching every single claim filed though that dealer in the future like a hawk - assuming they remain a dealer. Pretty shady stuff.

 

[Ian SAVS]

Dealer owner just called (for the first time) and said he didn't say anything about a rock, and that his suggestion of vandalism came from the fact that I asked them not to block the gravel road the farm is on so the neighbor could get past, and he intoned from that that maybe I had bad neighbors.