Batteries in cold weather

[GreensvilleJay]

thanks ! I finally looked up and saw the 'envelope'..been a long day ...fixed 3 snowblower today while the 35 sillymeters of snow comes here...more tomorrow and then the winds will whip it up, again and again.

After reading about 'what's inside', I'll stick with 'real' batteries !
There's a 'big bit of kit' under that batteries hood and having yet another 'computer' to deal with is not my cup of tea. Could easily be 100 miles on an unused logging road, no cell of course and that battery decides to go to 'sleep'..Not a good thing while riding an Adventure bike....

There's a problem with using 'embedded computers' inside anything and everything.The 'engineers' won't think of the ONE thing that YOU find out, the hard way.......that leaves you stranded !

 

[BX25D Rookie]

My Yamaha with the Antigravity lithium ion battery is a "sport bike" and will never go off road.
Where I ride it, almost always has cell signal in case of a breakdown.
I do have one upstate NY motorcycle riding season with the Antigravity battery.
That's about six months or so.
No issues so far.

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

Okay, the message is not entirely caused by anything you did or could have done. Most of the issue is how ford programmed the charging system and possibly even the stock battery.

In order to keep this post short I would recommend you take a look at the f150 forums there is hundreds of pages of info about the issue and potential solutions. Its a well documented thing with the gen14 f150s.

thanks.... I got a question for you though.

today it was something like -38c (-36f) and the truck was throwing the same message. (see below) At first blush I thought when I started seeing that message last week it was a bad thing. Like battery or something going bad.

now though as it gets colder and I am running the truck daily I am starting to think this might be a good thing! not a sign of battery or other problems.

Could the truck be smart enough to realize thats its very cold so its making steps to protect battery etc... by shutting down OTA and anything else thats not absolutely critical to keep powered up to protect itself?? could it be programmed for self protection of its battery.

your thoughts?

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Gee... it seems someone finally figured out you HAVE to turn off 'nonessentials' IF you want to keep enough electrons in the battery for something 'mission critical', like STARTING the engine.

Unlike the original Teslas where if you ran down the battery far enough, after you got out, it'd autolock( security) and then NOT enough electrons to open the door,which you need to do to press a button to open the trunk to get the low amp recharge cable out...... I've been told Ford E vehicles will 'shut down'/ 'safe mode' with <15% energy in battery.

 

[Rcflyer330]

thanks.... I got a question for you though.

today it was something like -38c (-36f) and the truck was throwing the same message. (see below) At first blush I thought when I started seeing that message last week it was a bad thing. Like battery or something going bad.

now though as it gets colder and I am running the truck daily I am starting to think this might be a good thing! not a sign of battery or other problems.

Could the truck be smart enough to realize thats its very cold so its making steps to protect battery etc... by shutting down OTA and anything else thats not absolutely critical to keep powered up to protect itself?? could it be programmed for self protection of its battery.

your thoughts?


View attachment 148692

Its possible the truck is protecting itself but you should not get that message expecially when it driven everyday unless its very short trips.

One thing you can try is to not have the hvac system in auto and manually turn the fan speed up to 5 minimum. Supposedly this tricks the vehicle to actually charge the battery more. I dont know if it works or not but it worth a shot. I will pm you some links to some reading materal about the battery charging system.

 

[NorthwoodsLife]

Like others mentioned. My solution is battery tenders.

My cars, trucks, tractor and toys all have battery tenders. I've never used a battery heater but it can't be a bad thing.

Secondly, for new trucks, I buy the work truck model. It comes without as many electronic bells and whistles as possible. My 2017 - F250 Super Duty 4X4 is an XL (base, gasoline, work truck, cheap) model which is bottom dog. It actually has a manual 4WD shift on the floor. So, low tech is your friend in adverse conditions.

I do miss my past owned Ford SD diesels on the hills when towing. But the most of the time I like the cheap seats. Low tech = less issues all around.

 

[WI_Hedgehog]

Like others mentioned. My solution is battery tenders.

My cars, trucks, tractor and toys all have battery tenders. I've never used a battery heater but it can't be a bad thing.

Secondly, for new trucks, I buy the work truck model. It comes without as many electronic bells and whistles as possible. My 2017 - F250 Super Duty 4X4 is an XL (base, gasoline, work truck, cheap) model which is bottom dog. It actually has a manual 4WD shift on the floor. So, low tech is your friend in adverse conditions.

I do miss my past owned Ford SD diesels on the hills when towing. But the most of the time I like the cheap seats. Low tech = less issues all around.

I second that. The work/winter truck is super basic, summer vehicles have the fun stuff.

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

Its possible the truck is protecting itself but you should not get that message expecially when it driven everyday unless its very short trips.

One thing you can try is to not have the hvac system in auto and manually turn the fan speed up to 5 minimum. Supposedly this tricks the vehicle to actually charge the battery more. I dont know if it works or not but it worth a shot. I will pm you some links to some reading materal about the battery charging system.

thanks for the links and the wisdom. This old dog is much smarter now.

I tested battery and its fine as expected as truck and battery almost new. So its either:

- the computer just protecting its self sensing through the BMS temp sensor that -36 deserves some protection (which is a good thing)
or
- since it did sit for a couple of weeks last fall and in January when I was on holidays, etc.... maybe a simple BMS reset is warranted ( you know that push the starter, stick your tongue out, 5 flashes, 3 stomps, push the button , check the zipper kinda reset)


in your experience is their any reason NOT to do a soft BMS reset if all otherwise is fine? wondering if this might somehow fart up the days in service counter.

 

[Rcflyer330]

thanks for the links and the wisdom. This old dog is much smarter now.

I tested battery and its fine as expected as truck and battery almost new. So its either:

- the computer just protecting its self sensing through the BMS temp sensor that -36 deserves some protection (which is a good thing)
or
- since it did sit for a couple of weeks last fall and in January when I was on holidays, etc.... maybe a simple BMS reset is warranted ( you know that push the starter, stick your tongue out, 5 flashes, 3 stomps, push the button , check the zipper kinda reset)


in your experience is their any reason NOT to do a soft BMS reset if all otherwise is fine? wondering if this might somehow fart up the days in service counter.

You could try a bms reset but it does reset the battery days in service. I dont think this a fix but some have had it work. The only thing I would recommend is putting the truck on a charger overnight or ultill fully charged then do the reset. Or just put it on a charger overnight without the reset and see if the message comes back. Remember the negitive lead from the charger cannot be directly connected to the top of the battery terminal because of the bms sensor. You could also try the fan speed 5 trick see if that works.

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

You could try a bms reset but it does reset the battery days in service. I dont think this a fix but some have had it work. The only thing I would recommend is putting the truck on a charger overnight or ultill fully charged then do the reset. Or just put it on a charger overnight without the reset and see if the message comes back. Remember the negitive lead from the charger cannot be directly connected to the top of the battery terminal because of the bms sensor. You could also try the fan speed 5 trick see if that works.

got it! negative on engine side of sensor.
its on a trickle charger now but charger says battery is 100% so feeling pretty indiff. over the whole thing.
Will let the 2amps flow for the day as it shouldn't hurt.

good news is I be having no troubles, battery shows 100% and at -43 wind chill this morning (-36 w/o) it fired right up w/o being plugged in. Life is generally pretty good.

Cheers!


ps: I always wondered why car/truck companies test out their equipment in Northern Canada in spring / fall when temps at about -10 and not in real winter when temps -40?
Also wonder why EV makes quote performance distances in winter at -10 and not the colder temps when batteries loose half their power.?
Well all questions beyond my pay grade. i don't run this world, I just live in it.

 

[BX25D Rookie]

My concern with battery warming blankets/trays is fire safety.
If the electric resistive heating blanket/tray shorts out, its plugged into a 20 amp circuit.
If it shorts out, the potential for a machine/building fire is certainly there.
20 amps and 120 volts is plenty of heat!

Battery tenders also plug into the 20 amp circuit, but the fuse in the wires going to the vehicle battery
has a 2 amp fuse. You seldom hear of one of the little plastic power pack boxes that plug into a wall receptacle catching fire. If something happens, in almost all cases, they just quit functioning.
The electrical components inside a charger/battery tender power pack box are tiny and delicate, incapable of heavy current draw. Think cell phone charger size and amperage capability.

I will accept the fire safety risks using the small low amperage devices, (the battery tender plug-in power pack) but long term unattended electric resistive heaters connected to high current flow power sources
scare me.

Yes, out in the barn everything is insured, but having to replace everything in the barn would be a major disaster. That is also assuming the insurance carrier didn't screw you over on the settlement amount.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

battery blanket is about 60 watts, so 1/2 amp at 120 V AC, will be internally 'one time fused'(same as space heaters),so really very unlikely it'll do any damage (unlike my gen of F150 where the brake switch WOULD destroy truck, garage and house.......)
A 'short' by design is supposed to trip the circuit breaker it's being powered from, far faster than OMG a FIRE ........

Most 'wall wart' power units will have an internal one time fuse as well on the primary side( 120 volt),so if they're 'asked' to supply too much current , it blows,you're safe, and then have to buy another unit.....
unless you're frugal, then you open up the case, replace the fuse and good to go......