Batteries in cold weather

MapleLeafFarmer

Well-known member

Equipment
Lots incl. B and L kubotas
Dec 2, 2019
708
598
93
E.
-33 this morning and of course cold batteries become a problem. A problem known since i was a child taught to me by my father.

My unexpected morning on brand new vehicle/brand new battery story follows...

for EV users it is generally known you can expect to loose up to 40% of your battery life in cold weather. https://www.ctvnews.ca/ottawa/article/cold-saps-up-to-40-of-ev-battery-life-caa-test-finds/

on older batteries and starting batteries most know a battery is weaker in cold weather.

But how about NEW gassers with new batteries? On my new F150 the dealer told me this morning of course you are going to have battery problems. Ford tech. told me this morning given so much electronics on the newer vehicles they sense the lower battery state and start to throw codes and shut stuff down!!! new truck / new battery just a cold winter day. Solution is to keep vehicle in heated area, use a battery tender, or wait till weather warms up is all the Ford tech could offer.

He did tell me be thankful I am not driving an EV today as he is getting constant calls that so many have turned into bricks until they get towed inside a heated place to warm up or plugged into a charger to warm the batteries.
Was told new truck with lots of electronics, with battery in perfect condition requires a battery tender if stored outdoors in cold weather. Otherwise expect computer to shut features down and maybe prevent a start. To me this is a step backwards not forward :(

1739458700342.png
 

MINICUP28

Member

Equipment
B7610, KX-018, RTV-500, JD X758
Feb 21, 2019
97
48
18
COBLESKILL, NY
Just replaced the battery in my 2015 F150. I never had a battery last that long in my life. Of course, it was a below zero day, but the good news was: I was in the Walmart parking lot. 20 minutes later I was on my way with a new H7 AGM that should last the life of this vehicle.
 

Mowbizz

Well-known member

Equipment
Bx25d
Aug 19, 2021
527
301
63
New Hampshire
I get this on my 013 F150 in frigid weather. I have to say, my 10+ year old BX25D battery (original) has stood the test of time and cold! Tractor sits outside in the rain, snow, ice, etc and has never let me down (yet)🤣 I’m sure the day will come, however…
 

GreensvilleJay

Well-known member

Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
Apr 2, 2019
12,455
5,382
113
Greensville,Ontario,Canada
What I don't understand is why people don't put 'battery warmers' in their rigs ? Will spend coins on block heaters though .
Used to use Gates SLA batteries as approved for nuke sub use, spent 6 MONTHS of R&D to design/build proper charging for them and keep them 'warmish'. They never ever let me down in 40+ systems.
A WARM battery is a HAPPY battery !!!

Always love that EV batteries have to heat themselves to operate, or when it's tooooo cold, 'sorry, take a bus' msg pops up !;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

Mowbizz

Well-known member

Equipment
Bx25d
Aug 19, 2021
527
301
63
New Hampshire
What I don't understand is why people don't put 'battery warmers' in their rigs ? Will spend coins on block heaters though .
Used to use Gates SLA batteries as approved for nuke sub use, spent 6 MONTHS of R&D to design/build proper charging for them and keep them 'warmish'. They never ever let me down in 40+ systems.
A WARM battery is a HAPPY battery !!!

Always love that EV batteries have to heat themselves to operate, or when it's tooooo cold, 'sorry, take a bus' msg pops up !;)
I do have both battery and oil pan heaters but if I forget to put the tractor in the garage before the storm, i start it cold.
 

BX25D Rookie

Active member

Equipment
2011 BX 25 DLB (dirt work, snow, and brush hogging) 2013 BX 2370 (mowing lawn)
Mar 21, 2019
113
84
28
upstate, NY USA
My tractors are always stored inside my barn. Recently, we had minus 28 F degrees here at my location.

Many years ago after acquiring a Harley Davidson motorcycle, I noticed that the owners manual stated
that if you weren't actively riding the motorcycle, whenever possible, it should be on a battery tender.
Harley Davidson sells battery tenders so I bought one.
The Harley Davidson dealer installed the permanent battery tender pigtail prior to delivery.

I'm certain that other brands/styles/types of battery tenders work just as good as the Harley Davidson
type, but since they have worked so well for me, and I have only ever had one fail in 20 years of usage,
I continue using them.

I have enough batter tenders running continuously in my barn that the soft green "charge indicator LED lights" work as a night light!

i even set up my carport with a power strip and battery tender for my Jeep, since after retiring, it no longer is a "daily driver" and sits outside in the cold for long durations during the winter months.

Modern vehicles with computers, electronic dashboards, entertainment systems and whatever other
silly electronic nonsense, always consume some battery electric power, even when turned off.
Some of them have surprisingly high "parasitic circuit draw" milliamp readings.

Over time, especially when it's cold, these vehicles WILL discharge the battery.

So needless to say, I am a big fan of battery tenders. They keep the battery fully charged at all times
when connected. That certainly is a big plus when you go outside for snow removal chores and it's
10 degrees Fahrenheit out in the barn. The two story "Morton Building" type barn is too big, uninsulated, and far too expensive to heat.

Jeep in the carport.
Harley bike in the barn.
Yamaha bike in the barn.
Honda SxS in the barn.
Honda ATV in the barn.
Kubota BX 25 in the barn.
John Deere X 720 in the barn.

When they deliver my newest acquisition, the BX 2370, they will pick up the traded in JD X 720
and the first modification on the BX 2370 will be to add the permanent battery tender pigtail on it.

The one exception for being constantly connected to a battery tender is the Yamaha bike.
I installed a lithium ion battery in it for the weight savings. (sport bike where weight savings is KING)
The battery manufacturer stated it should not be on a battery tender continuously.
So about once a month, I will plug it into the battery tender for about six hours which charges it completely, and then I unplug the tender. The Yamaha bike has an engine control ECM and an electronic digital dashboard. i was surprised how much those two electronic components discharged the cigarette pack sized lithium ion battery in a month. And the lithium ion battery is slightly more than three pounds weight savings compared to the factory equipped lead-acid battery.

The newest "generation" of Harley Davidson battery tenders are user selectable for conventional lead-acid batteries, AGM batteries, and lithium ion batteries.

Cold start problems? Never.
Dead batteries? Never.
Also, a huge increase in battery service life as they are never allowed to sulphate.

Block heater, no. Battery tray heater, no. Fully charged battery, YES.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users

SAR Tracker

Well-known member

Equipment
LX2610HSDC, FEL, LX2963 Snowblower, BH77 Backhoe, forks
Nov 17, 2020
224
323
63
Central Oregon
Not a battery problem, per se, but gaining access to install a tender pigtail on my LX2610. Had all the materials I needed, went to open the hood, and couldn't. SH(%. Tried to look under the hood from the bottom of the tractor, but engine was in the way. SH(%. Could move the hood a little side to side which seemed to confirm my suspicions the latch was broken. SH(%. Then that little voice in the back of my head said "Hey, dumbSH(%, it's -16F outside, and you're in an unheated shed - the hood is frozen to the frame!" Got the heatshrink gun out, and about 5 minutes later easily had the hood open. Lesson learned.
 

GreensvilleJay

Well-known member

Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
Apr 2, 2019
12,455
5,382
113
Greensville,Ontario,Canada
re: The battery manufacturer stated it should not be on a battery tender continuously.

I'd love to know WHY they said that ! Having designed and built 'battery tenders' since decades before the name came about, I'm really curious !!
 

SDT

Well-known member

Equipment
multiple and various
Apr 15, 2018
3,277
1,059
113
SE, IN
What I don't understand is why people don't put 'battery warmers' in their rigs ? Will spend coins on block heaters though .
Used to use Gates SLA batteries as approved for nuke sub use, spent 6 MONTHS of R&D to design/build proper charging for them and keep them 'warmish'. They never ever let me down in 40+ systems.
A WARM battery is a HAPPY battery !!!

Always love that EV batteries have to heat themselves to operate, or when it's tooooo cold, 'sorry, take a bus' msg pops up !;)
Bingo.

Always have battery blankets on my whole hours gensets, whether propane or NG.
 

BX25D Rookie

Active member

Equipment
2011 BX 25 DLB (dirt work, snow, and brush hogging) 2013 BX 2370 (mowing lawn)
Mar 21, 2019
113
84
28
upstate, NY USA
GreensvilleJay,
Not being an electrical engineer, I don't have the answer to your question.
But I suspect it has something to do with the general precautions for lithium ion batteries.
When a lithium ion battery overheats/catches fire, it's a real problem that's tough to deal with.
Most cell phones have the same recommendation/precaution.
Also the reason lithium ion batteries are restricted in airplanes with bulk cargo quantities.

Here is what I used in the Yamaha.


IMG_20230720_172421622_HDR by cee_Kamp 32ACP, on Flickr
 

Rcflyer330

Active member

Equipment
Kubota B2650 Cab, B2779 Broom, B2782B Snowblower, RB1672 rear blade
Oct 14, 2019
106
59
28
Traverse City, Michigan
-33 this morning and of course cold batteries become a problem. A problem known since i was a child taught to me by my father.

My unexpected morning on brand new vehicle/brand new battery story follows...

for EV users it is generally known you can expect to loose up to 40% of your battery life in cold weather. https://www.ctvnews.ca/ottawa/article/cold-saps-up-to-40-of-ev-battery-life-caa-test-finds/

on older batteries and starting batteries most know a battery is weaker in cold weather.

But how about NEW gassers with new batteries? On my new F150 the dealer told me this morning of course you are going to have battery problems. Ford tech. told me this morning given so much electronics on the newer vehicles they sense the lower battery state and start to throw codes and shut stuff down!!! new truck / new battery just a cold winter day. Solution is to keep vehicle in heated area, use a battery tender, or wait till weather warms up is all the Ford tech could offer.

He did tell me be thankful I am not driving an EV today as he is getting constant calls that so many have turned into bricks until they get towed inside a heated place to warm up or plugged into a charger to warm the batteries.
Was told new truck with lots of electronics, with battery in perfect condition requires a battery tender if stored outdoors in cold weather. Otherwise expect computer to shut features down and maybe prevent a start. To me this is a step backwards not forward :(

View attachment 148360
What year is your f150 and what engine? How often and how long do you drive it? Also is your f150 up to date with ota updates?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

dirtydeed

Well-known member
Lifetime Member

Equipment
B2650 BH77, U27-4R2, BX23TLBM, box blade, rear blade, flail mower, Stump Grinder
Dec 8, 2017
3,113
3,903
113
Wind Gap, PA
But how about NEW gassers with new batteries? On my new F150 the dealer told me this morning of course you are going to have battery problems.

Was told new truck with lots of electronics, with battery in perfect condition requires a battery tender if stored outdoors in cold weather. Otherwise expect computer to shut features down and maybe prevent a start. To me this is a step backwards not forward :(

View attachment 148360
Mine does the same thing...I only drive it approx once in 2 weeks time. It's been doing that since day one (2018 F150).

All of my other equipment stays on battery tenders year round. I'm still on the original battery on my wife's yamaha grizzly (2012 model). They work for me.
 

MapleLeafFarmer

Well-known member

Equipment
Lots incl. B and L kubotas
Dec 2, 2019
708
598
93
E.
What year is your f150 and what engine? How often and how long do you drive it? Also is your f150 up to date with ota updates?
thanks for the questions.
its a 2023 F150 all loaded up, 2.7L EcoBoost V6 ,
over the last 12 months or so i have put on about 3,000 miles, this winter using it a couple times a week on fairly short runs. Over last summer though maybe once every couple of weeks as in warmer weather I like to take my bike (pedal bike not motorcycle)
my ota updates happen automatically at about 2am I am not sure how often I just let the updates happen whenever they want.
The day I took it to the dealer and noticed the warnings happened when it was really cold (-30's or so) but had used it at highway speeds for maybe an hour the day before and a hour the day in question. Wanted to give it a good run and thought why not as my daily F150 driver is 12 years old with 175,000 or so on the odometer. Was showing off a little to friends so took the nice one. Previous weeks I had seen similiar warning but paid no attention as I just thought I had turned it off improperly or left door ajar or something silly like that.
 

Henro

Well-known member

Equipment
B2910, BX2200, KX41-2V mini Ex., Beer fridge
May 24, 2019
5,857
3,067
113
North of Pittsburgh PA
GreensvilleJay,
Not being an electrical engineer, I don't have the answer to your question.
But I suspect it has something to do with the general precautions for lithium ion batteries.
When a lithium ion battery overheats/catches fire, it's a real problem that's tough to deal with.
Most cell phones have the same recommendation/precaution.
Also the reason lithium ion batteries are restricted in airplanes with bulk cargo quantities.

Here is what I used in the Yamaha.


IMG_20230720_172421622_HDR by cee_Kamp 32ACP, on Flickr
First time I ever saw a motorcycle with training wheels!
 

Rcflyer330

Active member

Equipment
Kubota B2650 Cab, B2779 Broom, B2782B Snowblower, RB1672 rear blade
Oct 14, 2019
106
59
28
Traverse City, Michigan
thanks for the questions.
its a 2023 F150 all loaded up, 2.7L EcoBoost V6 ,
over the last 12 months or so i have put on about 3,000 miles, this winter using it a couple times a week on fairly short runs. Over last summer though maybe once every couple of weeks as in warmer weather I like to take my bike (pedal bike not motorcycle)
my ota updates happen automatically at about 2am I am not sure how often I just let the updates happen whenever they want.
The day I took it to the dealer and noticed the warnings happened when it was really cold (-30's or so) but had used it at highway speeds for maybe an hour the day before and a hour the day in question. Wanted to give it a good run and thought why not as my daily F150 driver is 12 years old with 175,000 or so on the odometer. Was showing off a little to friends so took the nice one. Previous weeks I had seen similiar warning but paid no attention as I just thought I had turned it off improperly or left door ajar or something silly like that.
Okay, the message is not entirely caused by anything you did or could have done. Most of the issue is how ford programmed the charging system and possibly even the stock battery.

In order to keep this post short I would recommend you take a look at the f150 forums there is hundreds of pages of info about the issue and potential solutions. Its a well documented thing with the gen14 f150s.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user

JRHill

Active member

Equipment
Orange: B7100 Std and Woodmizer; Green/yellow JD Buck, Gator and 410j.
Apr 26, 2016
180
142
43
Wahkiacus, Washington
re: The battery manufacturer stated it should not be on a battery tender continuously.

I'd love to know WHY they said that ! Having designed and built 'battery tenders' since decades before the name came about, I'm really curious !!
In general it is NOT GOOD to keep a LPO4 battery at full charge. Also, in general, the chemistry suffers in frigid temps. Both of those will shorten the life and they are expensive. I'd recommend a lead battery if your temps are that cold.

They are getting better. The solid state tech is sounding cool when they get it figured out.
 

GreensvilleJay

Well-known member

Equipment
BX23-S,57 A-C D-14,58 A-C D-14, 57 A-C D-14,tiller,cults,Millcreek 25G spreader,
Apr 2, 2019
12,455
5,382
113
Greensville,Ontario,Canada
Went to Battery Tender's website and they have them for LPO4 batteries so I'd like to know who the manufacturer of the battery is, to directly ask 'why not' ?
I understand how to properly recharge them(built my own 'tenders' for years ) and of course 'tenders' automatically disconnect when battery says 'charged', so they cannot be overcharged'.
 

The Evil Twin

Well-known member

Equipment
L2501, LA526,
Jul 19, 2022
2,978
3,117
113
Virginia
GreensvilleJay,
Not being an electrical engineer, I don't have the answer to your question.
But I suspect it has something to do with the general precautions for lithium ion batteries.
When a lithium ion battery overheats/catches fire, it's a real problem that's tough to deal with.
Most cell phones have the same recommendation/precaution.
Also the reason lithium ion batteries are restricted in airplanes with bulk cargo quantities.

Here is what I used in the Yamaha.


IMG_20230720_172421622_HDR by cee_Kamp 32ACP, on Flickr
Weight savings is right! The Deltran LiFePO4 battery that is in the race bikes weighs 25% less than the lead acid Yuasa. Maybe even less than that since I don't have lights and stuff so i put in a smaller battery. I would almost bet my R6 weighs about what your R 3 does. It's 374.4 lbs on a certified scale with a full tank of fuel. Only with about 100 more ponies 😁
2058.jpg
 

lugbolt

Well-known member

Equipment
ZG127S-54
Oct 15, 2015
5,336
2,010
113
Mid, South, USA
yes lithium batteries (all lithium batteries) suffer degraded output with low (and high) temperatures. One of many reasons manufacturers cannot approve of their use in equipment that is designed for lead-acid batteries. I just spoke with Polaris about this earlier. They also do not recommend lithium in any of their gas powered (and the legacy Lead-acid EV) equipment. Yamaha did not, and still does not approve either--not on outboards nor powersports equipment. The stators on Yamaha outboards won't properly charge them, and I'm told they saw a number of stator and regulator failures due to lithium battrey usage. I know a lot of guys run them in bass boats but I can't say how long they'll last.

For now I'm sticking with lead-acid.
 

BX25D Rookie

Active member

Equipment
2011 BX 25 DLB (dirt work, snow, and brush hogging) 2013 BX 2370 (mowing lawn)
Mar 21, 2019
113
84
28
upstate, NY USA
GreensvilleJay,
I sent you the factory owners manual for the lithium ion Antigravity motorcycle battery yesterday.
Check your PM. It's an attached .pdf file.