Backhoe Subframe?

[Kubotanewb555]

I am new to tractors and bought my first tractor with my dad, an L4200 with a front loader. It came with a backhoe 3pt hitch attachment which looks large for the tractor itself but works alright. It’s a low hour machine and seems very well kept, but the more I’ve been reading about backhoe attachments on tractors the more I begin to worry about damage I am putting it under. Videos and articles seem to say a subframe is the right solution. Unfortunately I don’t know what model the backhoe is as it’s older and rusted. I’m not sure where to even find this on the attachment. Hope these pictures help.

My question is, do I need to buy a subframe for my tractor to protect it, or is it a large enough tractor to be able to manage the attachment strains. Thanks.


Edit for photos.

 

[2drx4]

Do you have pictures of how that attaches? That will answer some questions.

 

[Kubotanewb555]

Do you have pictures of how that attaches? That will answer some questions.

It’s attached with the 3pt hitch only. I can get some pictures the next time I am at my parents to help out. Thank you.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

I think you are correct...........The "rumor" is that using a 3pt hoe is akin to "playing with Nitroglycerin".

Depending on your skill level, you might be able to put a subframe on and "adapt" the "3pt backhoe" to the subframe?

I've never heard of anyone doing that, but I suppose it's possible.

But I am not sure "just adding the subframe" will work.


Edit: I forgot to add "Welcome".......Also remember if you tackle this "Pics or is didn't happen" applies

Paul

 

[fried1765]

View attachment 110268 View attachment 110269 I am new to tractors and bought my first tractor with my dad, an L4200 with a front loader. It came with a backhoe 3pt hitch attachment which looks large for the tractor itself but works alright. It’s a low hour machine and seems very well kept, but the more I’ve been reading about backhoe attachments on tractors the more I begin to worry about damage I am putting it under. Videos and articles seem to say a subframe is the right solution. Unfortunately I don’t know what model the backhoe is as it’s older and rusted. I’m not sure where to even find this on the attachment. Hope these pictures help.

My question is, do I need to buy a subframe for my tractor to protect it, or is it a large enough tractor to be able to manage the attachment strains. Thanks.

You NEED to have a CUSTOM sub-frame fabricated.....ASAP!

Even when used with great care, in the not so distant future, there will come a day when you will work that big/heavy hoe a little too hard, and rip out the tractor toplink casting.
Your pictured assembly depicts a mechanical engineering disaster, just waiting for a time & place to happen.
If you limit your digging to piles of dry feathers though, you might be able to get by with it!

 

[N3BP]

Your loader subframe will help with the transmission reinforcement, but your toplink can always be ripped out if your too rough with it. If you don't already have one, you'll need a top link reinforcement kit (see attached pic). Also attached is a ladder style subframe that you would typically find for that era machine.

 

[old and tired]

You do have a tougher tractor, old Grand L. I would say that a heavy duty top link would help. Do you have a photo of the top link as it is now?

Usually, the top link of a backhoe is a massive, beefy chunk of metal... at least it was on my Long 1199 backhoe. It transfer all of the backhoe's power to the top link.

Behind the bends of my heavy duty top link, were reinforced tabs. I bought longer and stronger bolts, too.

 

[Jchonline]

It’s attached with the 3pt hitch only. I can get some pictures the next time I am at my parents to help out. Thank you.

Subframes have to be specifically matched to the tractor model and the backhoe they connect to. The likelihood that one was made for your specific setup is very slim. As mentioned you will need to have one fabricated which will probably cost thousands of dollars. I would just use the backhoe very sparingly in loose material as needed and keep it off the machine when not in use. 3 PT backhoes are a huge compromise over a subframe mounted one, and can easily ruin your back end.

 

[N3BP]

A comparison of my Woods backhoe toplink (top) vs OEM kubota (bottom). The link itself is beefier, only threaded at one end, and longer. That's what they want you to use when you attach the hoe by way of 3-point. I'd still rather the toplink pull apart before it rips out the tractor mounts!

 

[Kubotanewb555]

Do you have pictures of how that attaches? That will answer some questions.

 

[Grandad4]

A reinforcing bracket like what others have shown is really essential for your L4200 if you expect to use that backhoe. There is a possble damage issue because if you catch the backhoe bucket on a root or a big rock, for instance, all the pulling the backhoe does goes right back into the rear differential through the toplink. The hoe probably has enough power to eventually break that casting wide open without the reinforcement.

But it's not just a tractor damage issue, there's also a possible safety concern since
a failure of the toplink or the rear end might cause the entire backhoe to suddenly lift and/or pivot on the lower 3pt linkage arms.

Kubota stopped offering the 3 point type backhoes several years ago.

 

[Kubotanewb555]

A reinforcing bracket like what others have shown is really essential for your L4200 if you expect to use that backhoe. There is a possble damage issue because if you catch the backhoe bucket on a root or a big rock, for instance, all the pulling the backhoe does goes right back into the rear differential through the toplink. The hoe probably has enough power to eventually break that casting wide open without the reinforcement.

But it's not just a tractor damage issue, there's also a possible safety concern since
a failure of the toplink or the rear end might cause the entire backhoe to suddenly lift and/or pivot on the lower 3pt linkage arms.

Kubota stopped offering the 3 point type backhoes several years ago.

So the casting reinforcement bracket is a must. Would it be fine to add that and not add a subframe?

 

[GreensvilleJay]

I'd think you'd be fine. The BH feet are in the ground, so the lower arms won't transmit much 'force' to the tractor ? The top link bracket on my D-14 is a wrap around style ,bolted to the read, top AND front of the rockshaft. If it ever breaks off, I've got a very,very serious problem. #7 post picture is similar to what I had made( clone of the 3 holer OEM bracket )
If you don't FORCE operations, as is, the BH will not do damage( tractor is fine now....) It's when you get AGGRESSIVE and/or do something STUPID, that 'stuff' breaks. As it sits, it'll dig miles of trenches in soil or sand, try to extracate a big boulder could cost you $$$$$$.

 

[Kubotanewb555]

I'd think you'd be fine. The BH feet are in the ground, so the lower arms won't transmit much 'force' to the tractor ? The top link bracket on my D-14 is a wrap around style ,bolted to the read, top AND front of the rockshaft. If it ever breaks off, I've got a very,very serious problem. #7 post picture is similar to what I had made( clone of the 3 holer OEM bracket )
If you don't FORCE operations, as is, the BH will not do damage( tractor is fine now....) It's when you get AGGRESSIVE and/or do something STUPID, that 'stuff' breaks. As it sits, it'll dig miles of trenches in soil or sand, try to extracate a big boulder could cost you $$$$$$.

Thanks for all your advice. I really appreciate the help. This is probably a dumb question, but how do I go about getting this part? Do I parts request Kubota or find someone who can make it for me?

 

[old and tired]

....how do I go about getting this part? Do I parts request Kubota or find someone who can make it for me?

Mine was said to have been one of the last ones in stock, back in 2006 or so... Kubota stopped making them.

It will need to be built.

 

[Henro]

The following illustration shows what the Kubota reinforced three point top link looks like (L4200 bottom right). There is great risk of pulling a piece out of the back off the transmission case if you don’t use one of these:

 

[Grandad4]

Even with the reinforcement bracket, use great care with a 3 pt BH. You are sitting right on top of what might break. If the toplink or the anchor point let loose while you are pulling hard on something (which is when it would be likely to fail, right?), you could get tossed or crushed.

Probably going to be hard to find a factory-made bracket but a decent metal shop should be able to make one if you show them the pics or diagrams posted here.

 

[fried1765]

The following illustration shows what the Kubota reinforced three point top link looks like (L4200 bottom right). There is great risk of pulling a piece out of the back off the transmission case if you don’t use one of these:


View attachment 110383

Suggest amend "great risk"..... to MAJOR RISK/LIKELIHOOD !
After bracket is properly built/properly installed amend to .......some risk!

 

[Henro]

Suggest amend "great risk"..... to MAJOR RISK/LIKELIHOOD !
After bracket is properly built/properly installed amend to .......some risk!

I think Great is larger in magnitude than major…

 

[fried1765]

C

I think Great is larger in magnitude than major…

Could be!