B7100 loader (B1630C) issue

[Hotmetal]

Good afternoon gents,

I just joined the forum today and my tractor arrived this past Sunday. It has 1350 hrs. I do not have tractor experience, but, did my best using buying suggestions from the forum. During the test drive I discovered two items that I had the dealer correct. (loader float and hydro creep) The dealer installed a new float kit and made adjustments that corrected the creep. I couldn't find any leaks and everything else seemed to work pretty well. Today, using it for the first time,(temperature 22 degrees) I moved some wood in the bucket and found an issue that didn't show up during the test. The loader is a B1630C model. The control works like I would expect, but, the bucket cannot hold position.(Curl) It literally empties itself in about 30 seconds forcing me to use the control every few seconds to keep it in position. The main loader arms are much better, but, I can also watch the them slowly sink. There are no visible external leaks. It does not matter what rpm I run the engine at much at all. Is there a diagnostic procedure for determining the issue? Is this a symptom of internal cylinder leak or control leak? I investigated and found seal kits are available for both, but, would like to not work blind. Any help is appreciated.

 

[85Hokie]

Good afternoon gents,

I just joined the forum today and my tractor arrived this past Sunday. It has 1350 hrs. I do not have tractor experience, but, did my best using buying suggestions from the forum. During the test drive I discovered two items that I had the dealer correct. (loader float and hydro creep) The dealer installed a new float kit and made adjustments that corrected the creep. I couldn't find any leaks and everything else seemed to work pretty well. Today, using it for the first time,(temperature 22 degrees) I moved some wood in the bucket and found an issue that didn't show up during the test. The loader is a B1630C model. The control works like I would expect, but, the bucket cannot hold position.(Curl) It literally empties itself in about 30 seconds forcing me to use the control every few seconds to keep it in position. The main loader arms are much better, but, I can also watch the them slowly sink. There are no visible external leaks. It does not matter what rpm I run the engine at much at all. Is there a diagnostic procedure for determining the issue? Is this a symptom of internal cylinder leak or control leak? I investigated and found seal kits are available for both, but, would like to not work blind. Any help is appreciated.

Wolfman or someone else will be here quickly to tell you the best place to look, I am betting it is in the valve body. It may need a rebuild - fluid is still flowing around a few worn rings......

 

[Hotmetal]

Thanks Hokie. I figured there were some regulars helping us newbies.

John

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

First thing to do to see if it's the cylinders or the valve is swap the lift and drop hoses for the curl and dump hoses if the symptoms stay the same it's the cylinders internal seals, if it swaps it's the loader valve.

 

[Hotmetal]

Thank you Wolfman. That is exactly the kind of suggestion I was hoping for. For clarity of terminology, curl hose is for upward movement of bucket only, and dump is for downward movement of bucket only. (emptying) Not touching the main arm cylinder hoses. Am I clear? I just reread you post and now have it clear I believe. I am swapping the two sets of hoses.

 

[Hotmetal]

Thanks Vic, Tomorrow I will do the test suggested for confirmation, but, it sounds like I am looking at the control rebuild. I think I saw the price at about $55.00 Sound like the right number?

 

[85Hokie]

Thanks Vic, Tomorrow I will do the test suggested for confirmation, but, it sounds like I am looking at the control rebuild. I think I saw the price at about $55.00 Sound like the right number?

shoot - that would be a cheap fix, if it will return it back to normal! Kinda sucks that the boys up north have to pay so much more to get the same stuff!

 

[Hotmetal]

I agree Hokie. If that fixes my issue, I am thrilled even if it's only some o rings etc. Well, that sure didn't take long to get answers. I am out of here until I can do the test. I will report back with the results. Thanks everyone. I've only had the tractor 3 days and already I wonder what I would do without this forum.

 

[BadDog]

I suspect the loader control valve is bypassing internally. Kubota makes an overhaul kit for that valve, really nothing more than a few O rings, couple of balls some plastic discs and holy crap is that kit costly.

Aint that the truth! Everything orange must be made of platinum or something pricier. I was looking at the seal kit for my lift cylinders that are weeping too much to tolerate, and had a casual thought to just getting kits for the whole thing while I'm at it. Just a bunch of O-rings and a few seals, right? Holy cow! Just the kit for a single cylinder is almost $60 (+shipping) through Coleman, and well over $100 from local POS dealer if I don't want to wait a week from the Friday for delivery. I'm going to carry the cylinders down town and match the parts. Talked to a buddy of mine who does cylinders quite a lot and he is sure they will have everything in stock (if my luck doesn't bite again), and I should get out with parts in hand for less than $40 for both sides.

Power steering is leaking too. Single rubber seal is $12 from Coleman with $7 shipping. Local dealer is $18 if I wait 2 weeks, $30 for a single seal if I want it this week.

I'm just about done ordering anything Kubota if it can be avoided.

 

[Hotmetal]

First thing to do to see if it's the cylinders or the valve is swap the lift and drop hoses for the curl and dump hoses if the symptoms stay the same it's the cylinders internal seals, if it swaps it's the loader valve.

So.....14 degrees out there this morning. I swapped the hoses as suggested and bucket held curl better, which means it is probably the control. I had something else happen that was unexpected however. With the hoses swapped I attempted to cycle the loader and brought the loader full up. I could not get it down! It would start to lower very gradually and then long before reaching the ground would reverse and go full up again quickly. It did this without altering the joystick. I ordered the control seal kit. Total $72.00 with tax and shipping. I had to turn the tractor off and repeatedly move the joystick to get the loader down before switching the hoses back to their proper position. While on that side I decided to take a look at the air filter. It was really, really, filthy so I cleaned it and the cover. This may be in my head, but, I could swear the loader was a bit better with having done nothing other than the hose swap and clean the filter. I ordered all the filters separately after seeing that.

 

[pejepscot]

The loader was probably better behaved because it was colder, hence more viscous fluid, hence less leak-by. My guess is new o-rings in your control valve will fix you right up. Good luck!

 

[Lil Foot]

Hotmetal- I'd like to ask a small favor when you have time- could you please measure the distance between the arms of the front loader where in connects to the bucket?
The reason is that I got a plow blade with my tractor that supposedly was mounted on a B7100- when I attempted to mount it, I found the mounts were too wide to go on my B219 loader. I moved the mounts & all is well, but I've often wondered if it had been on a B1630. No hurry, it would just be to satisfy my curiosity. Thanks.
Lil Foot

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

This may be in my head, but, I could swear the loader was a bit better with having done nothing other than the hose swap and clean the filter.

If you find one filter that's dirty expect them all to be.
Depending on your exact model you could have as many as 4 hydraulic filters.

 

[CJN8]

I just rebuilt the lift and bucket cylinders on my B7200 with 1640 loader. The loader should be identical to what you have only that mine is a quick disconnect model. Here is a parts list for the lift cylinder, it was included in the rebuild kit. The curl/bucket cylinder parts bag did not include PNs however. Not sure if this helps. The reason I rebuilt my cylinders is because every one of them leaked and similar to what you describe my curl cylinders would leak down. When I disassembled them it was apparent, the T seals on the piston were completely worn flat so piston would not seal well against the cylinder walls. Using a stone hone I cleaned up all 4 cylinders to remove scratches and to restore the crosshatch and reinstalled the new seals...slicker than deer guts on a door knob...everything works great now. I did the same for my 3PT lift piston too. The 3PT will hold a load up for weeks without any drift.

 

[Hotmetal]

Hotmetal- I'd like to ask a small favor when you have time- could you please measure the distance between the arms of the front loader where in connects to the bucket?
The reason is that I got a plow blade with my tractor that supposedly was mounted on a B7100- when I attempted to mount it, I found the mounts were too wide to go on my B219 loader. I moved the mounts & all is well, but I've often wondered if it had been on a B1630. No hurry, it would just be to satisfy my curiosity. Thanks.
Lil Foot

I just returned to the forum this morning and saw this. I will get you measurement today.

 

[Hotmetal]

If you find one filter that's dirty expect them all to be.
Depending on your exact model you could have as many as 4 hydraulic filters.

My thoughts as well. I ordered all the filters and plan on replacing all fluids.

 

[Hotmetal]

I just rebuilt the lift and bucket cylinders on my B7200 with 1640 loader. The loader should be identical to what you have only that mine is a quick disconnect model. Here is a parts list for the lift cylinder, it was included in the rebuild kit. The curl/bucket cylinder parts bag did not include PNs however. Not sure if this helps. The reason I rebuilt my cylinders is because every one of them leaked and similar to what you describe my curl cylinders would leak down. When I disassembled them it was apparent, the T seals on the piston were completely worn flat so piston would not seal well against the cylinder walls. Using a stone hone I cleaned up all 4 cylinders to remove scratches and to restore the crosshatch and reinstalled the new seals...slicker than deer guts on a door knob...everything works great now. I did the same for my 3PT lift piston too. The 3PT will hold a load up for weeks without any drift.

Thanks for the information. After thinking my issue through, I decided it was probably a good idea to do more than the control. I suspect my cylinders are likely leaking as well given the age of the tractor. It seems to also make sense to replace the hoses at the control while I have it apart. I thought I'd do it in two stages. Control and it's hoses, then the cylinders. I am interested in seeing the change with just the control done, but, my hunch is that the problem will be better, but, not gone. I received the control rebuild kit from Messick's in two days and I just ordered a brass o ring removal tool to be safe. Got to pickup some super udt and line up a hydraulic shop for the hoses. I'm hoping it will be a bit warmer to do the job by the time I get everything together. 10 degrees this morning. I could put it in the wife's garage, but, I lose points when her car is left outside and bad weather comes in. (my side is already full with antique printing presses) Again, thanks for your input.

 

[Hotmetal]

Hotmetal- I'd like to ask a small favor when you have time- could you please measure the distance between the arms of the front loader where in connects to the bucket?
The reason is that I got a plow blade with my tractor that supposedly was mounted on a B7100- when I attempted to mount it, I found the mounts were too wide to go on my B219 loader. I moved the mounts & all is well, but I've often wondered if it had been on a B1630. No hurry, it would just be to satisfy my curiosity. Thanks.
Lil Foot

Inside face to face at loader is 35.75 inches.

 

[Lil Foot]

Inside face to face at loader is 35.75 inches.

Thanks, I'll check mine next time I visit the little beasty.

 

[Tooljunkie]

Be sure to blow out the hoses before installing. I had just done all the cylinder packings and new hoses,became worse after. I discovered a scratch on hyd cylinder bore, must have been something in one of the hoses.