B3350 dpf issues

[eddiebob]

B3350 DPF Issues

As stated previous in this post diesel truck owners and OTR truck drivers are all too familiar with the troubles that come with DPF systems. It took several years for the manufacturers to figure out a viable solution. In the mean time the consumer suffered the consequences. My only thought about dealing with a first year DPF design on a tractor is to read up on the system and the solutions that others have come up with. Maybe check some of the diesel truck forums. There is no doubt that we all have a DPF tractor in our future (if we live that long). In the mean time I'll keep on taking good care of my 2005 Cummins, 2006 diesel Mercedes, and 2013 Kubota (all non DPF). Ed B

 

[B83]

This is SCARY my 3350 has only 13 hours. I have only used it to move snow so it has not had a big load put on it. Planning some dirt work but too wet to work the ground. Since it is in the break in period thought I shouldn't push it too hard. I sure don't want to have to fight this problem. Guess I am too naïve. I figured Kubota had their engineering together. Expensive machine to be having problems so soon.
DM

Not sure how to use this thread? I have same hours now. My problems
started within less than an hour of first use.
Have your issues been resolved??? Really want to know soon. Mine is in
the shop for first time right now. They came to my house one time and
analyzed it and found an error code. Now engine light is on constantly.
Thanks.

 

[ncnuke]

I purchased a B3350 in December. I have had no successful regens of the DPF. The dealer has installed 3 new DPFs. All winter Kubota said it was to cold for the regen to work. The service manager even tried putting cardboard in front of the radiator to get it hotter. We still did not get a successful regen. I am currently working with Kubota to swap the B3350 for a B2650. I have had the B2650 as a loaner for 3 weeks and I love it, there are no tier 4 emission controls on the B2650, so no DPF to deal with. It starts so easy and has plenty of power for the 72 inch mower deck. I don't think there will be an issue powering the 63 inch front snow blower either.

 

[bumper]

Please update here and let us know what the resolution is.

My B3350 has been working fine, regens about every 10 to 13 hours, depending on how I'm running it. With auto regen selected, it's pretty painless . . . does it's thing while I'm working as long as I keep the rpms over 2100 or so.

That said, I think I would recommend the B2650 over the B3350. %$#ing EPA, anyway!

bumper

 

[kc8fbl]

At least with the 2650, I believe there is no DPF stuff to worry about. Glad to hear that your dealer is willing to do some investigating on the problem and trying different things to try and make it work. Hopefully things work out for the best.

 

[speedyvelo]

I have a brand new B3350, that is was delivered in December. The following is my DPF history.

Tractor arrived to my place, as soon as the dealer start the tractor saw the yellow light and a problem to start and he said we have a problem with the DPF and he took the tractor back to the dealer. A week later he said that they talk to Kubota and followed Kubota advice (what ever instructions K gave them)and delivered the the tractor.

At about 14 hours, flash yellow light, red light and the tractor stop and I could not started. I left the tractor on the road, few hours later I came back, the tractor started with the yellow light, I press the auto and it completed.

I understand now some errors I did, the first one I allowed the tractor to warm up in iddle for 15 to 20 minutes (yes the auto was on). So I assume there was accumulation of particles and because the tractor is idling the regen does not work.

The dealer told me to run the tractor at very high rpm, so I run it at 2300 or so. Then reading the manual it says do not run it at full for 50 hours, so now at 27 hours I tried to go with slower rpms, but so far weather is warm so I have not had any more problems (neither use the tractor too much)

After reading all of your comments this is what I take

1. having a block warmer is a plus because allows faster warm up and less accumulation of particles

2. idle engine is a no no for any longer than a couple of minutes

3. There is a contradiction where in one side you should not push the engine for the first 50 hours and in the other side yes have the engine running high rpm to burn particulate.
In summary spend more fuel to be able to burn the exhaust that comes from the fuel (does it make any sense? )well typical behavior from this quango (EPA)

4. Always have the auto on as soon as the engine is running. (I saw one of the new L6060 and Kubota change the approach, the auto is on my default, which is the opposite of the B3350)

5. Run the engine at 2100+ as bump said in his well explanatory message in this thread.

-=terry=-

 

[RIDETOEAT]

Reading a lot other places before buying my tractor led me to believe the very small cubic inches of these compact tractors made it difficult to scale down the success that has been had in road vehicles. Are you guys running at elevated RPM's or just enough to get the job done. I think I understand the more rev'd up you are the better the systems are working, the same as needing 1900+ rpm during regeneration to get enough flow. Difficult to scale the system on small engines at low rpm's sounds like what they are fighting.

 

[Dieselbob]

I deal with a fleet of 200+ heavy trucks every day, and don't let ANYONE fool you into believing that this stuff works like it should, becuase it DOESN'T. Even when it half works, the maintenance costs will eat you alive. Also, while Kubota has an obligation to try to keep their customers happy, it is really NOT their fault. The Government puts a gun to your head and says "do this" or don't sell engines. As others have said, the real problem is that the way most people (myself included) use compact tractors is EXACTLY the opposite of the way the DPF systems need to be used, which is why any intelligent person at the EPA who actually UNDERSTOOD anything would have exempted this tractors. These are NOT farm tractors that run for hours under heavy load. My tractor seldom EVER runs for more than twenty minutes at a time, and usually at very low speeds. (I almost never mow with my BX). This type of usage is NEVER going to be compatible with a DPF system, which is why I am so glad I have an older tractor. We can't even get the DPF systems to function on some of our big trucks that only do short hauls or do interplant shuttles.

 

[bumper]

With the turbo charged B3359 (with DPF), I quickly learned to not idle the engine for anything more than a minute or two - just shut it down instead.

If not stored in a heated garage, get a block warmer to minimize warm up idling. I warm up the tractor for just a few minutes, then start moving at a minimum of 1600 rpm w/ slowly and with no load. As soon as I get one bar on the temperature display, it's up to 2000 rpm or above - pretty much always, and even during the break in period.

When new, starting would have the engine stumbling along from 5 to 10 seconds before it smoothed out. With the first oil change, this has improved much so it's not an issue. I lean in (unless I want to sit inside and wait), turn the switch to glowplugs, and wait a few seconds after he radio comes on before hitting the starter (audio is also delayed a little bit so it gets used as a timer of sorts). RPM is adjusted to 1350 or so.

I always operate with autoregen selected, unless I know it will only be run for less than 15 minutes.

186 hours now (tractor delivered Nov 2013) and no problems - - yet.

bumper

 

[chichi]

hey guys
my company just bought a 3350 and it only as 12 hrs yes 12 and the dpf didn't come on and do is thing , so now we have the warning light that came on and beeping like its gonna explode. which might be a good thing. and by checking this machine after it happen I noticed that where the air intake for the air filter is right in front just under hood but I was checking the motor and I noticed water leaking from the air filter compartment so I opened it air there was like an inch of ice and snow buil up around the filter . so I called the dealer where we bought it and there nothing they can do with it so I put a rag on intake so there will be no snow coming in.

but the biggest issue is that warning light n beeper n dpf system .

cant believe it this is a new machine n already problems ill never muy a new Kubota .

if you guys have any idea how this can be fixed please let me know tks

 

[sheepfarmer]

Chichi, what a nightmare! The 3350 has been plagued with problems. There is a recall on it,and a fix for at least some problems is available. If this kit hasn't already been installed on your tractor, that doesn't speak well for your dealer.

That said, having the air intake clogged with snow and ice is not helpful, but the tractor won't regenerate in auto if certain conditions aren't met. On the 3560 it has to reach a certain coolant temperature, dpf temperature, and engine speed higher than 1200 rpm.

If the buzzer is sounding intermittantly it is telling you that that didn't happen, and if you have dried off the airfilter, it wants you to do a parked regeneration. Can you first put the tractor somewhere above freezing for a while in case any other parts are frozen shut? The other parts that have caused troubles are in the crankcase vent/breather system.

I hesitate to tell you the steps for parked regeneration from my manual because I have a different engine, do you have the operators manual for yours? Write back, we should be able to find those directions somewhere on the forum.

 

[bumper]

My B3350 has 187 hours, no problems.

After you start the tractor, push the Auto-Reset button if you will be using the tractor for more than 20 minutes, more than 2000 rpm, and in an area where the additional exhaust heat won't be an issue. Then the tractor will regen pretty much seamlessly when it needs to do that - the regen light comes on to tell you when it's happening*. Mine regens every 13 to 15 hours depending on how I use it.

If the above required conditions for auto-regen are not met, then the tractor will ask for a "parked regen". Park the tractor, set the brake, put the HST lever in neutral. Start the tractor and move the throttle to idle, push the "Park Regen" button - the park regen light should come on. Now leave the tractor alone - don't touch any engine or HST controls. The engine speed will ramp up on its own to 2000 rpm, and after it comes back down to idle, also on its own, the tractor is ready for use.

*You can interrupt a regen cycle, but if you do that and don't allow it to finish the next time you use the tractor, expect it to later require a parked regen. Further, if you are not allowing auto or parked regen, finally the engine will drop down to limited power and if pushed even futher, will require a dealer reset (IIRC).

 

[sawmill]

In my opinion, all this smog crap on all types of motors is making a lot of people
rich. They've gone completely overboard with it.

 

[bumper]

In my opinion, all this smog crap on all types of motors is making a lot of people
rich. They've gone completely overboard with it.

Overboard? Absolutely, thank the liberal retards at the EPA and those that direct them from on high, at least in regard to our little 100 hours a year tractors.

I lived in the LA basin for a few years in the 50's. Smog was so thick that sometimes you couldn't see a quarter mile away. I will say that smog control on automotive engines, along with better, cleaner burning motors, has made the situation a whole lot better.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Well, and I apologize in advance for ranting, but the blame for the problems shouldn't be heaped entirely on the EPA. They recommend a reduction in emissions levels to meet certain standards taking into consideration people's health and the environment. They make those recommendations to the legislature which then comes up (after the lobbyists get done with it, and the contributors to their campaign finances) with a hodge podge of often poorly thought out regulations. They don't tell the manufacturers HOW to meet the standards, it is up to them to come up with the methods. The manufacturers of course are primarily interested in their own bottom lines.

The engineers construct an engine/exhaust system package that will meet the standards at least in a laboratory, but we the consumers get to test them in the real world.

Until such time as we have so few people that polluting doesn't matter, we have to clean up our acts. When I lived in LA in the 60's the comment in biology classes was that the coroners could tell how long someone had lived there by how grey their lungs were. Those soot particles get in the lungs, migrate elsewhere in the body, and don't ever come out. So I think the manufacturers should be required to do something, but can't support how they have gone about it in all cases. and I sure don't like how our legislative process is working on either side of the aisle.

 

[sheepfarmer]

Chichi, one more thought, how did the snow and ice get in your air intake? While it was parked outside? Snow blower? Driving it in a blizzard? You can't run it with a rag stuffed in that tube I'm thinking. So you really have two separate problems to solve. More info would be good!

 

[skip.heal]

I have a B3350 with 117 hrs. on it. It has been in the shop 3 times for service.
I have had issues with the DPF Filter and it was replaced at about 95 hrs. It did run better, but it has trouble getting up to speed in High range. I have a snowblower on the front and snow dust entered into the air box and froze the machine up. Back for more service. They put a bra on the front grill. Got it back and used it 3 hrs. until it overheated and shut down. Back for service. They had to reset the computer, punch holes in the bra and disconnected the snorkel located on the top of the radiator. They ran it for an hour with computer attached and told me I could pick it up. When I got there, it wouldn't start. They brought it inside and changed the glow plug relay and got it going. So I brought it home. Tried to start this AM at -2 degrees and it won't fire. I currently have it inside on the trailer warming up. Maybe in a couple of hrs. it will start. This tractor is a piece of engineering crap! Anyone out there considering buying one forget it. Loaded with issues. I've about had enough.

 

[Beauly]

I have a brand new B3350, that is was delivered in December. The following is my DPF history.

Tractor arrived to my place, as soon as the dealer start the tractor saw the yellow light and a problem to start and he said we have a problem with the DPF and he took the tractor back to the dealer. A week later he said that they talk to Kubota and followed Kubota advice (what ever instructions K gave them)and delivered the the tractor.

At about 14 hours, flash yellow light, red light and the tractor stop and I could not started. I left the tractor on the road, few hours later I came back, the tractor started with the yellow light, I press the auto and it completed.

I understand now some errors I did, the first one I allowed the tractor to warm up in iddle for 15 to 20 minutes (yes the auto was on). So I assume there was accumulation of particles and because the tractor is idling the regen does not work.

The dealer told me to run the tractor at very high rpm, so I run it at 2300 or so. Then reading the manual it says do not run it at full for 50 hours, so now at 27 hours I tried to go with slower rpms, but so far weather is warm so I have not had any more problems (neither use the tractor too much)

After reading all of your comments this is what I take

1. having a block warmer is a plus because allows faster warm up and less accumulation of particles

2. idle engine is a no no for any longer than a couple of minutes

3. There is a contradiction where in one side you should not push the engine for the first 50 hours and in the other side yes have the engine running high rpm to burn particulate.
In summary spend more fuel to be able to burn the exhaust that comes from the fuel (does it make any sense? )well typical behavior from this quango (EPA)

4. Always have the auto on as soon as the engine is running. (I saw one of the new L6060 and Kubota change the approach, the auto is on my default, which is the opposite of the B3350)

5. Run the engine at 2100+ as bump said in his well explanatory message in this thread.

-=terry=-

Ok, just reading through this thread. Bought new B3350SU in Dec, used it a little that month, then the snow started and so I started using it with the snow blower. Early Jan, 11.2 hours, it tried to do a regen as I was snow blowing. No luck, forced a parked regen, that failed, I tried it 3 times. My dealer towed it away. The snow kept coming. Dealer planned to replace the reformer, as described in service bulletin, took a week for reformer part to come in. Two weeks later, and many more snows, I got the tractor back. Used it only for snow blowing since, and a little work around the yard recently spring clean up, no regens since getting it back from dealer. Just this weekend, it called for a regen. No luck, the auto did not work, and then red blinking light and beeping and parked regen light. So I tried a parked regen, it did not complete, tried it twice more, no luck. Called dealer on Sat, they are going to call me today, and no doubt take the tractor back to the shop.

So in fact, I have never had the tractor to a proper regen for me yet.

Sound familiar?

 

[sheepfarmer]

Thanks for writing in Beauly, even if the news is not good. Hopefully your dealer will treat you well. Each of these engines has a different set of smog control devices on them, and it doesn't sound as though the set on the 3350s is very successful. There have not been any similar reports of regeneration difficulties for the L60 series, and a different set of problems for the 3301 and 3901 series has been reported.

 

[ShaunRH]

Sheepfarmer-

As a LONG time So. Cal resident I too lived in the grey smog. However, early emissions were a joke, they just pumped air into the exhaust to lower the 'particulate' emissions. It made no difference and SMOG Alerts were a daily fact of life.
Catalytic Converters do SOME good, dealing with un-combusted fuel, but most of the gains in pollution control had nothing to do with emissions and everything to do with fuel efficiency. Everyone went from their V8's with the 4 barrel carbs to 4 bangers with fuel injection. Suddenly, fuel economy was no longer in the single digits but over 20 and what was burned was burned more efficiently.
There just aren't enough tractors in the US to generate any noticeable pollution. Even the worst offending oil-burner out there is less polluting than a camp fire because the combustion process is far more efficient with the engine.
We are putting emission controls on tractors for FEEL GOOD emotional reasons, NOT scientifically or engineering sound reasons.
You cannot tell me that a DPF regen cycle with it's need for higher RPM, burning more fuel and being less efficient (Some inject fuel right into the chamber just to get heat to 'burn off' carbon soot!) in design is better than a really efficient fuel injected engine. The numbers don't lie, DPF is a joke and it's just like the old "Smog Pumps" in the early engines.
DEF (urea) *MAY* be a better system, certainly easier to live with, but it's still a macro problem solving a micro issue. Government has no need to be here other than to get into regulating a business they previously have been mostly shut out of... farming.
That is what everyone is griping about.