B3350 dpf issues

[jhodgins94]

I have a B3350 tier 4 machine used for snowblowing and I have 50 hours on the machine the DPF has been replaced 3 times the computer once. I am continuing to have issues with the DPF not regenerating Kubota states the cold weather is the reason any help or tips would be welcome.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Sadly your sailing in mostly uncharted waters around here with Regen and DEF issues, most of the posters are running old school equipment.
But always willing to learn about the new equipment.

 

[ItBmine]

I don't want to sound negative and it is colder climates up here, but my salesman told me they are having lots of problems with them. He never said anything as drastic as DPF replacements but he said they are constantly throwing codes and shutting down. He is bringing in mostly all B2650's for that reason.
I hope they get you fixed up, as that is a really nice tractor. I feel your pain though. I have to deal with it on my big trucks.

 

[hodge]

It's design, not cold. There are plenty of pickups and road tractors with DPF's in extremely cold climates; they work fine. The cold may contribute, but it isn't the main reason for trouble. This is technical, and why I would buy an old stock or used tractor, and steer clear of the tier 4/DPF stuff for a while.
Sorry you are dealing with this, but welcome to the forum! This is a great place.

 

[gpreuss]

I don't know if the "lemon law" applies to tractors. I'd be taking it back and demanding my $$ or a new last years' model as a replacement. If they sell it in a cold weather climate it should work there, or have big caution signs on it.

 

[ItBmine]

Actually it is kinda because of the cold. Those small engines can't produce enough exhaust heat to maintain the DPF regens. You would have to keep it under very heavy load all the time to keep it happy.

My new DD15 Detroit Diesel did one regen all last summer and now I can barely get 8 hours between regens. And my def (urea) system froze up once because the heaters can't keep up in extreme cold. Dealer shop was full of frozen scr trucks that day.

 

[Billdog350]

Argh, DPF has made its way to tractors now! I'm avoiding buying a new truck because of all of the EGR/DPF issues almost all of the new brands are having (especially Ford, but all seem to have their own problems). Well, that and the fact that a new diesel truck is over $50k.

Whatever the case, my B9200 just got more valuable in my mind! Fewer parts to break and none of that DPF garbage.

As far as what the OP was asking, you need to generate some serious heat. Once your machine is broken in, you will find yourself needing to run at a higher rpm to get that EGT hot enough to make the DPF function correctly. Put a piece of cardboard in front of your radiator if its real cold so you can get some heat into your motor (and engine compartment), just like they do on the big rigs.

Like others have posted, sadly I have heard hundreds of horror stories about DPF systems on all sorts of diesels. If you can swap for a leftover/older model without that, it will be worth it. There is literally no upside to DPF, except a minor reduction in exhaust smoke and soot....however I've seen trucks regen-ing and smoking pretty good so I still don't get how the GVT thinks that's better.

 

[jhodgins94]

Kubota has come up with a kit to slove this problem and the larger tractors and equipment there is a upside to this. And that would be common rail injection increasing horse power and fuel injection both of those are a plus and yes the problems they are having now are no fun but the problems in lie with the 3350 because it is mechanical injection still causing particulate matter to compile much faster causing need for more regens. Also the 2650 is non catalyist meaning no DPF. We have to take the good with the bad and common rail injection and turbo chargers are good but DPF and EGR are not so good but once the kinks are worked out all will be well ford and chevy have it down to a art form now with the 6.7 Powerstroke Scorpion and the 6.6 LML duramax.

 

[Dirt Mover]

This is SCARY my 3350 has only 13 hours. I have only used it to move snow so it has not had a big load put on it. Planning some dirt work but too wet to work the ground. Since it is in the break in period thought I shouldn't push it too hard. I sure don't want to have to fight this problem. Guess I am too naïve. I figured Kubota had their engineering together. Expensive machine to be having problems so soon.
DM

 

[tjd7869]

cant give to much incite on a fix for the D(one) P(lain) F(**ked) issues that nearly all diesels are having thanks to some UN-educated tree huggers in the EPA that think a diesel engine is more harmful than a gasoline one just because the exhaust tends to be visible. from what i have seen this dpf crap dose noting but put diesels in a next to unreliable position, engine shut downs, certain rpms and durations for regens, exhaust fires, and the regen parts are made to run clean once you have a build up of carbon on any of the parts it fails to work, then the engine is shut down and not allowed to run by the computer. all that for what? a miniskewl reduction in carbon output in engines that surpass there gasoline counterparts. the government messed with our diesel fuel to make it "cleaner" and our engines suffered from that, now its dpf to make the engine "cleaner". think of how messed up gasoline engines are with there emissions components, majority of the time its those emissions parts that are the cause of a needed repair. i say the only fix is to figure out a way to bypass the dpf all together, it may take time but im sure it eventually can be done. if not pull the motor and computer and put in a non dpf power plant.... really thankful of my non electrical l-210

 

[tiredguy]

UGH!
It's supposed to work and being it's a brand new tractor under warranty I'd be all over the dealer I bought it from like stink on $hit to get them to bring me a tractor to use and take the new one back to fix it. It's been nearly -30 where I'm at in northern Michigan this winter several times and weeks of highs maybe 12 above to many cold days unfortunately, but no issues at all with my B3030 and glad I'm not in your seat right now.
I too held off buying replacement large truck because A they're expensive and worse B the new emmissions cause the fuel consumption to increase nearly double. I'm with evertone else baffled how burning twice as much fuel will have a net result of less polution according to the government.Look at diesel
cars in Europe that get 60 plus mpg easily and the same vehicle here with US emmission controls struggles to get 42. I've got a GM Duramax one ton box truck in the fleet using DEF etc and have had zero problems in 98k miles and do run power service added every fillup since day one. I've heard no complaints on the new Ford produced diesel engine either so at least 2 are safe.
To me it's a Kubota engineering problem and the dealer should handle it with them making sure you're not without a tractor while they're fixing it. By the way, did you buy the extra Kubota insurance when you bought it? If so great move as I'm sure you'd more than get your monies worth back because I think the teir 4 issue could plague you for years and you'd be covered.
Al

 

[Aviator]

I too have a B3350 and it now has close to 60 hrs on it and the regenerations are getting more frequent all the time ! If it worked like it is supposed to when in the auto regeneration mode while working the tractor that might be acceptable but I have had mine start a regen in the auto mode and after 5 or ten minutes it terminated the auto regen and the beeper started sounding,the red light started flashing and the parked regen light started flashing. This has happened 3 times so far. One of the parked regens took 30 minutes to do and after it terminated the regen I started working the tractor again and after 5 or ten minutes it demanded another regen ! That regen took another 25 minutes ! The job I was working on was about a 2 1/2 hr job but you add the 55 minutes on to that and it is a waste of time and fuel that if Kubota or EPA employees had to deal with,would be ended immediately. This DPF technology is junk ! Kubota needs a class action lawsuit filed against them for selling equipment like this. The EPA is out of control approving this fuel and time wasting system ! I think when I cool down I will be writing my congressman and senators and sending a copy to Kubota and the dealer I bought it from. I wish now I would have bought the B2650. Maybe if enough people get together that bought the B3350 and complain to Kubota something might be done but all they want to do now is waste more of your time having you haul the tractor to the dealer and have them run a forced regen and diagnostics wasting more fuel in the process. Sorry for the rant but if anyone is interested in getting a group letter to Kubota let me know.

 

[Billdog350]

Guys, almost ALL oem's have trouble implementing a DPF system. Ford and GM have had plenty of issues themselves. I don't know if I've heard of a DPF that does work properly 100% of the time, or doesn't end up burning MORE fuel than something without....it just makes no sense to burn more fuel to "reduce" emissions. We all know that defies logic.

I'm sorry to hear about your B3350, however there are two solutions you can try. A. Stick it out and hope they upgrade the software/system so they fix these regens all the time. B. Go back to the dealer (and Kubota customer service) hot and heavy and try to return your machine for something without DPF. Take videos of your issues, document your lost time. C. Worst case you can take them to small claims court for the time lost screwing around with a system that doesn't work properly, most states that will be ~$700 or so you can sue for.

 

[bumper]

Temps this winter were mild, lows mostly in the 20 F range, and I had no problems with my B3350 and front snowblower. Tractor lives in a heated garage, but I still needed to extend the glow plug warm up to double that recommended in the manual to avoid chugging and stumbling during start. After the first oil change, I used 5-40 instead of 15 - 40 oil, and starting seemed to get smoother yet.

First regen occurred at 13.7 hours and have been running maybe 10 - 12 hours apart. I try to avoid idling for more than a few minutes, and mostly operate >2000 rpm with auto-regen enabled. Have done one parked regen, the rest auto. Still, I'd rather operate at low rpms when more power isn't needed. What are other's doing re power settings?

bumper

 

[Dirt Mover]

Well, I was fat dumb and happy until now, I am fat dumb and not happy now. Today my B3350 decided to shut down on it's own while working some dirt. The engine would not crank so no restart. After shutdown the Regen light is on and buzzer sounds every 5 seconds. I run with the AUTO regen switch in auto all the time. I think this should not happen. Tractor has only 21 hours on it.
DM

 

[bumper]

Well, I was fat dumb and happy until now, I am fat dumb and not happy now. Today my B3350 decided to shut down on it's own while working some dirt. The engine would not crank so no restart. After shutdown the Regen light is on and buzzer sounds every 5 seconds. I run with the AUTO regen switch in auto all the time. I think this should not happen. Tractor has only 21 hours on it.
DM

What RPM were your running? Where you doing short runs?

While not in the manual (that I can find), I don't think the "auto regen" function will work if the RPM is below about 2000 rpm - - I say this, because during the "Parked Regen" cycle, it automatically goes to 2500 RPM until heated and then drops to 2000 RPM for a good while until the regen is finished.

If you are using low RPM or short runs, it won't go into regen even if the "Auto regen" button is pushed. It will then request parked regen. If that is ignored, I think it will ultimately shut down.

Now that it has been off for awhile, try doing a parked regen if it will start. Park it, start it at idle, push the parked regen button and don't touch anything else, not the throttle, nothing. It will automatically go to full throttle by itself, then down to 2000 RPM, still don't touch a thing until the regen light goes out - - could talk 20 to 30 minutes. If you can't get it to start at all, time to talk to the dealer - pretty sure there is a dealer reset procedure.

And yes, I too am starting to wish I'd have ordered the B2650 instead. Nice to have the extra power, but the DPF may be a can of worms long term.

bumper

 

[Jaybry]

Ok Im new to the forums. I am getting ready to pull the trigger on a B3350 for mowing, FEL, and 5'bush hogging. Im pretty sure my tractor (B2620) is sold but now I am hearing a lot about engine and EPA problems. My current tractor is crank and work and service on schedule. I need some advice. This tractor fits my all around needs as far as specs but there is a lot of neg on this DPF!!! Help!?!

 

[bumper]

Jaybry,

I can't give you a definitive answer. When I purchased my B3350, I had searched on line for info on the whole DPF thing. I was concerned, but really wanted the additional horsepower and turbocharger (I live in the high desert, 4800 feet with density altitude much higher in the summer). Without a turbo, power loss is about 3% per thousand feet. I considered that Kubota would have engineered it right. The dealer said that the DPF was designed to last 3000 hours . . . I'm 69, so at 150 hours a year, that will likely last my lifetime.

I'm trying to remain optimistic, and I have not had any real problems so far.

After the factory warranty, the fix might be as simple as drilling holes through the DPF. That seems to be popular "fix" on diesel cars in Europe, though I'd prefer not to be the first to try it.

There's a thread on tractor by net: Kubota B2650 and B3350 info and hints

bumper

bumper

 

[Dad03]

I have no knowledge of how the DPF on tractors work. I have a Cummins that utilizes the DPF technology. I have read one way to bypass the regen cycle allowing the removal of the DPF is the use of SIMS. Basically either 110 ohm or 330 ohm resistors plugged into the sensors along the exhaust system. Fools the computer that a regen is not required thus allowing the removal of the emission crap.
Perhaps something similar would work on these new tier 4 engines.

 

[bumper]

I have no knowledge of how the DPF on tractors work. I have a Cummins that utilizes the DPF technology. I have read one way to bypass the regen cycle allowing the removal of the DPF is the use of SIMS. Basically either 110 ohm or 330 ohm resistors plugged into the sensors along the exhaust system. Fools the computer that a regen is not required thus allowing the removal of the emission crap.
Perhaps something similar would work on these new tier 4 engines.

I've read much about DPF, regen, etc. Prior to a couple of years ago, there were several companies selling "DPF delete" kits for USA diesel pickups. These consisted of a reprogrammed on board computer and a bypass pipe. The EPA came down hard on them, fining them $500K (IIRC) and requiring they buy back product sold (doubt if they got many takers). Other makers of DPF delete kits took note and ceased sales.

In Europe, diesel cars have suffered from poor performance and reduced mileage due to clogged DPFs, especially in urban, low speed driving. The diesel needs to be operated at a high enough power setting to provide the heat needed to burn off the particulate in the DPF. This heat may be provided by post combustion fuel injection (spraying diesel fuel into the exhaust ahead of the DPF - - makes heat, lowers mileage (this is the system used on the B3350).

Some enterprising souls in EU have simply drilled a few holes laterally through the DPF, thus "unclogging" the exhaust and assuring that the delta-P (pressure differential) sensor doesn't send the dreaded "regen-NOW or we shut down to limp mode" message to the computer.

So why not simply drill a few holes through the DPF and weld a SS patch at each end to cover them? Well, the DPF filter on the B3350 costs $2,500 and is under warranty longer than the tractor proper (I think 3 years). They would doubtless void any warranty on anything if it's messed with.

BTW, from what I can tell, there are 3 temperature probes on the DPF. There is also at least one pressure differential sensor. Some computers, besides monitoring temp and pressure conditions, also have a timer to call for a regen after a given amount of operation, hours or mileage. Further, the fuel injection timing is retarded - this to raise exhaust temperatures for more efficient DPF operation - unfortunately the retarded injection also reduces power. So to take advantage of the power and added fuel efficiency of bypassing the DPF, it is necessary to reprogram the computer to re-time injection also.

Unfortunately, to do it right does not seem so simple as just replacing probes with resistors and installing a bypass pipe. Even without the EPA breathing heavily down our necks, the market segment is too small to encourage the proper DPF delete kits with computer remapping that we saw for over the road diesels.

IMO, another case of our EPA running amuck. Consider the multiple millions of jet-a (essentially diesel fuel) that is burned by airliners with no regard for smog or particulate emissions whatsoever. Balance that against a little tractor that might see a couple of hours of use a week.

bumper