B219 hydraulic pump failed. Need help!

[seanbarr]

Gents,

My B7100 has been a good work horse until I noticed that the pump started spraying fluid all over a few weeks ago. Brought it in to work on it recently and I'm having a hellova hard time locating a replacement pump. It's bad enough when the shaft is 9/16" when it's more common to see pumps with 1/2" or 5/8" shafts.

What I desperately need... a new pump but I'm told that these pumps are no longer made so I need to find a close replacement. Can any of you guys help? I wish I know the pump specs so I can try to locate one that's close to the original specs.

So far, I've got the following info:

CCW rotation
Avg RPM 2,700
9/16" shaft

I'm assuming that the pump should put out approx 6 gpm?

Help. Please.

 

[Apogee]

Sean,

Unfortunately, I am of no help with this as I have no knowledge about it. I do know that replacements are tough to source because I've seen comments about it in the past.

That being said, it would be great if you'd update this thread with your eventual fix and perhaps add pics. I'm sure others would find it very helpful.

Thanks,

Steve

 

[OldeEnglish]

You should post some pictures of what the setup looks like so the pros on here can see what your working with. I'm not But I would love to see how the pump is driven. Is it a straight shaft to the pump shaft? Is it driven by two pulleys and a belt? Is there an electric clutch? I'm just curious...

If there isn't a replacement pump that can just swap out....Personally I don't know but someone on here may..... I would think that a new pump could be adapted somehow....

If it's driven by a straight shaft..... You could cut off the pump end of the shaft and have a new adaptor welded on to fit the size of the new pump's drive shaft. Any good machine shop can do that with their eyes closed and in my experiences get it done in no time for cash . If you can do it yourself, even better! From what I've read on here the most valuable part is the crank shaft side of the shaft due to its spline ratio. It seems to be very hard if not impossible to match up? I know I've seen someone drill and weld a blank flange instead of using the splines. I would fit the new pump with the center lines all lined up first and take the overall length measurement and include the make in depth for the new pump. It's always easier to take away length than it is to add it if you have to completely remount a new pump. You don't want to cut it two times and still be too short .

If it driven by pulleys.... Could you just get a new pump side pulley with a different bore size but the same overall diameter and belt size?

Just my thoughts but good luck!

 

[Lil Foot]

My tractor isn't here, or I'd shoot some pics for clarity. There is a dual row chain coupler that connects the pump to the crankshaft. For the odd shaft size, should be easy for any decent machinist to make a sleeve for a 1/2" shaft to fit the 9/16" hole, and I think there is a key (if I remember right) so a custom size key might be needed also.

 

[ShaunRH]

You need to concentrate on how the pump is connected. Is it a splined shaft, a pulley, what... that will make the difference in whether or not the 9/16ths shaft is an issue.

Beyond that, ANY pump can be circumvented or adapted to work if it has similar specs, so knowing what the specs are is important. You can take it to an outside mounting, tap off the crankshaft pulley, etc. etc.

My AC D-17 has an old Toyota pickup trucks steering pump driving its steering system, that's just a hydraulic system.

Now, there are places that specialize in rebuilding hard to rebuild pumps. so you might want to look at that option as well, but not knowing the details of how it connects makes recommending a replacement, difficult.

 

[Lil Foot]

Big Kahuna had sent me this info: (took me a while to find it)

B&B Hydraulics- rebuild kit for Cessna Pump Model 24205-20, about $45 plus shipping

 

[Tooljunkie]

photos would help..
no fear to use old pump and housing to make an adapter.
is toast anyway..

 

[Tooljunkie]

My tractor isn't here, or I'd shoot some pics for clarity. There is a dual row chain coupler that connects the pump to the crankshaft. For the odd shaft size, should be easy for any decent machinist to make a sleeve for a 1/2" shaft to fit the 9/16" hole, and I think there is a key (if I remember right) so a custom size key might be needed also.

would be easier,to punch out sprocket to 5/8" for the larger shaft pump.
less chance for failure also.

 

[ShaunRH]

would be easier,to punch out sprocket to 5/8" for the larger shaft pump.
less chance for failure also.

Yeah there are a few options either way, any decent machine shop can resolve this problem reliably. Many sprockets have push out inserts for different shaft sizes so they can accommodate various diameters of drivers, but I don't know if that sprocket has the same feature.

At that point, it's just finding a pump with the same dimensions, specs and mount template. Even that isn't critical as you can make adapters for stuff that's close.

 

[Diydave]

If your pump is running off the front crank, just get a pump with the same specs,(try burden's surplus center, lincoln, NE) and mount it with a lovejoy coupling, lots quieter than the old double chain setup...

Shaun, do you ever get over to the unofficial allis web page? lots of good info over there. I have 6 AC d-series tractors that I keep running for the farm, and numerous implements...

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Here is what it is:

Swapping the pump would be easy if it was not for the 9/16 shaft size, that size is obsolete, either 1/2 or greater, and most 1/2" size pumps ane too low of a flow rate any way.
The chain sprocket coupler is welded to the shaft so just swapping it out for a lovejoy coupler is a pain, I'm thinking the best option is to mill the keyed end out from the 9/16 hole and 1/8'th keyway to the 5/8 and 5/32 keyway

This pump: 5.28GPM

http://www.baileynet.com/product/10638

Should make it run fast, and strong without too much load on the engine.

 

[Tooljunkie]

before you get carried away,check and make sure the chain is domestic.could buy a hub/sprocket to match the chain and number of teeth.a couple good welds and you are good to go.buying a hub and sprocket might be cheaper than a machine shop.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

before you get carried away,check and make sure the chain is domestic.could buy a hub/sprocket to match the chain and number of teeth.a couple good welds and you are good to go.buying a hub and sprocket might be cheaper than a machine shop.

Already looked into that... not happening.

 

[Tooljunkie]

Ah. Proprietary chain. Ok. Boring it out is the quickest.

 

[ShaunRH]

Okay, I gotta ask, what exactly does that chain drive? It's 360° around the sprocket!

If that's just a transfer shaft from the splined crank front to the key'd pump shaft, then yeah, just bore and re-key the shaft.

What do those chains and sprockets accomplish?

 

[OldeEnglish]

Okay, I gotta ask, what exactly does that chain drive? It's 360° around the sprocket!

If that's just a transfer shaft from the splined crank front to the key'd pump shaft, then yeah, just bore and re-key the shaft.

What do those chains and sprockets accomplish?

I'm curious as well, never have seen anything like that... I'm guessing the double chain acts as a coupling?

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Okay, I gotta ask, what exactly does that chain drive? It's 360° around the sprocket!

If that's just a transfer shaft from the splined crank front to the key'd pump shaft, then yeah, just bore and re-key the shaft.

What do those chains and sprockets accomplish?

The chain coupling joints are torque joints it keeps the pump from ever being solidly connected to the engine, allows for some "give".

The chain joints consist of 2 separate sprockets and a double roller chain that connects the 2 sprockets together.

 

[OldeEnglish]

Great diagram! I learn something new every day on here

 

[MagKarl]

Where did you come up with the pump flow rate? 6gpm is a lot bigger than the main hydraulic pumps on most tractors that size. I've always heard the external pumps are faster.

What was the failure? Have you taken the pump apart to see?

 

[kubotasam]

The chain is a standard size it is # 40 double roller. I replaced one last year on one of my tractors. It is the sprockets that are special the mating faces are machined. One cupped in, the other extending out to help keep the centers aligned. Have the sprocket bored out and a keyway broached in. Not a hard job for a machine shop. 6 gpm is about correct for the size,