Antifreeze

[TheMurf]

Hello Dieseldonato,

In the post that I referred to above, I made note of the fact that Kubota antifreeze is a clear liquid, to which a coloring agent is added. I would just comment that specifications are what is important, rather than a color (as you alluded to).

19thSF, Thank you. I realized that there was a previous thread out there on the antifreeze subject after I posted mine..I did read it, very informative. Thank you for the reply and thank you for your service to our country.

 

[johndeerebones]

Check your manual. My L2501 is supposed to use ethylene glycol based antifreeze. I know of no special antifreeze for diesels. I generally use Prestone but have used Peak in the past as well. I don't think brand really matters that much I just have to make sure whatever I use is compatible with ethylene glycol.

Wet liner engines use additives to prevent cavetation damage. Most Kubota engines are dry.

 

[TheMurf]

Wet liner engines use additives to prevent cavetation damage. Most Kubota engines are dry.

Roadworthy, I had to go to the dealership the other day to pick up something I ordered..I asked for a gallon of Antifreeze for the BX, they use Peak and stock it. Same mix as what's call for in the shop manual. Bought a gallon. Thanks for the reply..

 

[TheOldHokie]

Roadworthy, I had to go to the dealership the other day to pick up something I ordered..I asked for a gallon of Antifreeze for the BX, they use Peak and stock it. Same mix as what's call for in the shop manual. Bought a gallon. Thanks for the reply..

Kubota specifies ethylene glycol extended life antifreeze. It comes in many brands and colors. It is not the same as old style conventional (IAT) green antifeeeze

Dan

 

[TheMurf]

Kubota specifies ethylene glycol extended life antifreeze. It comes in many brands and colors. It is not the same as old style conventional (IAT) green antifeeeze

Dan

Thanks Dan That's what it is. That's what the Kubota dealer uses in new machine and in their shop.

 

[RalphVa]

FWIW all antifreeze (except the non toxic type) is made of ethylene glycol as the base. It varies from there whether it's formulated as HOAT, OAT what have you. When I flushed and changed mine last year I still had a gallon of Mopar green (left over from days my late friend and I had our shop). But, also I would never put Universal in my current cars (Toyotas 11 Highlander and 20 RAV 4 Hybrid) which take a special formulation that is pink. I am sure Universal would "work" after a fashion but I would not trust it for long. I would be doing full drain fills every year. Also on my cars I simply take them to the dealer for that service now. A while back I did a flush and refill on a different Toyota I had. Tried to be a good environmental steward and recycle it. Well what a fiasco. I searched all over the Rockford IL metro for someone to take it. All I got was "nope". After a long time of looking I finally found a repair center who would take it, reluctantly. But, only because I know the general manager of the chain and asked him. It's just easier to take it in. As for the tractor I hate to admit it but because it's such a small amount I just drop it on the driveway and flush it down well. (I can't drive the tractor to the dealer)

Around here in central Va, Advanced Auto took the used antifreeze from the Isuzu's 10 year change.

 

[dsx4xb]

Guys, What Antifreeze do you recommend for BX tractor? Is PEAK diesel Final Solution ok ? Does it make a difference what brand ? Thank you.

For all of you in Kubota land who's tractors are supposed to use "Kubota Extended Life Antifreeze" I have some news for you. I ran across this problem a few years back, no Kubota dealers in Idaho, WA, OR, MT stocked Kubotas A/F, furthermore ALL of the dealers parts Dept. said that at $20 + that nobody would buy it, and they ALL refused to order it for me!?? All the service departments used the cheapest automotive A/F they could find or used recycled A/F! Even for warranty work. NOT GOOD! No antifreeze brand list Kubota Diesel engines on there bottles, Big Kubota secret ingredient! Long story short I managed to find MSDS from CCI chemical in Chicago Ill. Called Zerex compared MSDS sheets with there brands and it is identical to ZEREX
GO 5! Later I got a return call from the Zone office in Lodi CA, John. He said that in parts of the world where they do not have there proprietary Extended Life A/F that they use GO 5. So there you have it, this stuff is a Diesel engine A/F and meets (unofficially) Kubota super duper secret proprietary A/F. Safely works in KUBOTA tractors requiring Kubota Extend Life Antifreeze!

 

[dsx4xb]

Thanks Dan That's what it is. That's what the Kubota dealer uses in new machine and in their shop.

Good luck finding Kubota extended life antifreeze or getting the dealer to use it in repair or warranty work. Bottom line, ZEREX GO 5 is used by Kubota in their factories overseas where the don't have the proprietary stuff. GO 5 is identical to CCI MSDS, also confirmed with a Maintenance manager at Kubota in Lodi CA. I used it for years, Safe to use.

 

[GeoHorn]

As for anti-freeze additives for John Deere and certain other diesels… there are also spin on coolant filters in some applications which contain granules which provide the secret ingredients to prevent cavitation. My John Deere 4239 engine in my roller/compactor uses one.

 

[TheMurf]

Guys, l went to the Kubota dealer where l bought my machine, they have been in business and a Kubota dealer for decades. Asked for a gallon of anti freeze for my machine to have it on hand. They handed my Peak 50/50 extended life anti freeze. The guy at the counter and the shop tech said that is what the use in all their machines at their dealership.

 

[Dave Ogren]

FWIW all antifreeze (except the non toxic type) is made of ethylene glycol as the base. It varies from there whether it's formulated as HOAT, OAT what have you. When I flushed and changed mine last year I still had a gallon of Mopar green (left over from days my late friend and I had our shop). But, also I would never put Universal in my current cars (Toyotas 11 Highlander and 20 RAV 4 Hybrid) which take a special formulation that is pink. I am sure Universal would "work" after a fashion but I would not trust it for long. I would be doing full drain fills every year. Also on my cars I simply take them to the dealer for that service now. A while back I did a flush and refill on a different Toyota I had. Tried to be a good environmental steward and recycle it. Well what a fiasco. I searched all over the Rockford IL metro for someone to take it. All I got was "nope". After a long time of looking I finally found a repair center who would take it, reluctantly. But, only because I know the general manager of the chain and asked him. It's just easier to take it in. As for the tractor I hate to admit it but because it's such a small amount I just drop it on the driveway and flush it down well. (I can't drive the tractor to the dealer)

Neat to see you are in Rockford, Ill, I left there 38 years ago. I had the same problem here in Asheville, N. C. and finally when I called the sewer dept they said just dump it in to a public sewer line and it would be handled by the station with no problem.

 

[lmichael]

I left there 38 years ago

It was a smart move. Believe me. Now, shootings all over, thefts, car jackings and that's in the GOOD areas! Even here in Cherry Valley.

 

[dvcochran]

Check your manual. My L2501 is supposed to use ethylene glycol based antifreeze. I know of no special antifreeze for diesels. I generally use Prestone but have used Peak in the past as well. I don't think brand really matters that much I just have to make sure whatever I use is compatible with ethylene glycol.

I Agree.
I have never heard of 'special diesel antifreeze'. Ethylene glycol is the tried-and-true green stuff. Dexcool is the orange stuff (which is an A/C Delco trademarked, ethylene glycol-based product. They are not supposed to be mixed because they can create a kind of gel. But I have never heard a convincing argument or reason for one to be better than the other. The orange is supposedly more environmentally friendly (no phosphate or silicate), but I do not think it is nearly as slippery and lubricating as the green stuff.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I Agree.
I have never heard of 'special diesel antifreeze'. Ethylene glycol is the tried-and-true green stuff. Dexcool is the orange stuff (which is an A/C Delco trademarked, ethylene glycol-based product. They are not supposed to be mixed because they can create a kind of gel. But I have never heard a convincing argument or reason for one to be better than the other. The orange is supposedly more environmentally friendly (no phosphate or silicate), but I do not think it is nearly as slippery and lubricating as the green stuff.

Ethylene glycol is the base for virtually all antifreeze. Propylene glycol is used to make environmentally friendly non-toxic antifreeze.

Traditional antifreeze uses Inorganic Acid Technolgy and has a limited service life. It uses silicates for corrosion protection

Extended Life Coolant uses some form Organic Acid Technolgy. (OAT) and is by definition silicate free. It has nothing to do with environmental concerns.

Hybrid Organic Acid Technology (HOAT) is an extended life coolant that combines OAT with silicates. It has a somewhatcreducex service life of 150K/5 years. Zerex G05 is an popular HOAT formulation.

Phosphates form deposits in the presence of hard water which is common in Europe and Asia so those OEMs specify phosohate free OAT formulations. It has nothing to do with environmental concerns.

Wet sleeve diesel engines suffer from cavitation problems that erode the sleeves. Nitrites and molybdate either in the base coolant or in the form of Supplemental Coolant Additives (SCA) are added to those formulations to fight the effects of wet sleeve cavitation. Cat ELC is one such diesel formulation.

Kubota specifies an ethylene glycol Extended Life Coolant. That will be a silicate free OAT/HOAT formulation of some sort. It is not a traditional IAT silicate formulation.

ELC coolant comes in a rainbow of colors including green.

Dan

 

[dvcochran]

Ethylene glycol is the base for virtually all antifreeze. Propylene glycol is used to make environmentally friendly non-toxic antifreeze.

Traditional antifreeze uses Inorganic Acid Technolgy and has a limited service life. It uses silicates for corrosion protection

Extended Life Coolant uses some form Organic Acid Technolgy. (OAT) and is by definition silicate free. It has nothing to do with environmental concerns.

Hybrid Organic Acid Technology (HOAT) is an extended life coolant that combines OAT with silicates. It has a somewhatcreducex service life of 150K/5 years. Zerex G05 is an popular HOAT formulation.

Phosphates form deposits in the presence of hard water which is common in Europe and Asia so those OEMs specify phosohate free OAT formulations. It has nothing to do with environmental concerns.

Wet sleeve diesel engines suffer from cavitation problems that erode the sleeves. Nitrites and molybdate either in the base coolant or in the form of Supplemental Coolant Additives (SCA) are added to those formulations to fight the effects of wet sleeve cavitation. Cat ELC is one such diesel formulation.

View attachment 84083

Kubota specifies an ethylene glycol Extended Life Coolant. That will be a silicate free OAT/HOAT formulation of some sort. It is not a traditional IAT silicate formulation.

ELC coolant comes in a rainbow of colors including green.

Dan

Ah, I see the overly used word 'Organic' has made it even into marketing antifreeze.
If 5 years is the window of operation, does it really matter what kind of antifreeze is used? Pretty sure I have never went over three years on any of my equipment. As far as hard water, there are lots of wells in use in the US. At least in the southeast US, I can guarantee you the water is hard.
I am not advocating other people do the same, but I have three Kubotas (and other colors as well) and have never used anything but traditional antifreeze and our good old hard well water.

 

[Dieseldonato]

Ah, I see the overly used word 'Organic' has made it even into marketing antifreeze.
If 5 years is the window of operation, does it really matter what kind of antifreeze is used? Pretty sure I have never went over three years on any of my equipment. As far as hard water, there are lots of wells in use in the US. At least in the southeast US, I can guarantee you the water is hard.
I am not advocating other people do the same, but I have three Kubotas (and other colors as well) and have never used anything but traditional antifreeze and our good old hard well water.

By your statement you've never had the pleasure of cleaning out a cooling system thats full of mineral deposits or having to explain to a customer that his 2 year old radiator is shot because of his poor choice to use his well water and mix his antifreeze instead of buying premixed antifreeze or distilled water.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Ah, I see the overly used word 'Organic' has made it even into marketing antifreeze.
If 5 years is the window of operation, does it really matter what kind of antifreeze is used? Pretty sure I have never went over three years on any of my equipment. As far as hard water, there are lots of wells in use in the US. At least in the southeast US, I can guarantee you the water is hard.
I am not advocating other people do the same, but I have three Kubotas (and other colors as well) and have never used anything but traditional antifreeze and our good old hard well water.

Organic chemistry is a branch of chemistry that studies the structure, properties and reactions of organic compounds, which contain carbon-carbon covalent bonds.[1]

Descriptive not marketing. Those compounds, properties and reactions are kinda central to the formulation of engine coolants.

Dan

 

[19thSF]

Organic chemistry is a branch of chemistry that studies the structure, properties and reactions of organic compounds, which contain carbon-carbon covalent bonds.[1]

Those compounds, properties and reactions are kinda central to the formulation of engine coolants.

Dan

Well,
There certainly has been a lot of conversation about anti-freeze. A lot of it has been technical.
Perhaps we can all agree on the following:

1) Using distilled water for mixing is a lot better than using well or city water.
Distilled Bourbon is not good for your tractor, but it is still good to have around!

2) You can't know the properties and/or correct use for an anti-freeze by its color. Remember, the "green stuff" was clear until they added a coloring agent. YOU NEED TO READ AND UNDERSTAND THE SPECS REQUIRED FOR YOUR MACHINE, WHATEVER IT IS, AND USE A PRODUCT THAT MEETS THOSE SPECS.

3) Kubota doesn't make anti-freeze. Last I knew it was supplied to them by CCI in Illinois. (It is anybody's guess as to where in the world it is actually made).

Here is the Spec sheet for what Kubota has private labeled as their "long life" anti-freeze. Use a product with the same chemical properties and you are good to go!

 

[TheOldHokie]

Well,
There certainly has been a lot of conversation about anti-freeze. A lot of it has been technical.
Perhaps we can all agree on the following:

1) Using distilled water for mixing is a lot better than using well or city water.
Distilled Bourbon is not good for your tractor, but it is still good to have around!

2) You can't know the properties and/or correct use for an anti-freeze by its color. Remember, the "green stuff" was clear until they added a coloring agent. YOU NEED TO READ AND UNDERSTAND THE SPECS REQUIRED FOR YOUR MACHINE, WHATEVER IT IS, AND USE A PRODUCT THAT MEETS THOSE SPECS.

3) Kubota doesn't make anti-freeze. Last I knew it was supplied to them by CLC in Illinois. (It is anybody's guess as to where in the world it is actually made).

Here is the Spec sheet for what Kubota has private labeled as their "long life" anti-freeze. Use a product with the same chemical properties and you are good to go!

The actual chemistry (CAS numbers) is "proprietary" and not disclosed.

Organic chemistry was a long time ago but Hydrated inorganic acid, organic acid salts smells like an HOAT to me. Also very typical of Asian OEMs.

Most importantly its "green" so the curmudgeons should be happy.

Dan

 

[TheMurf]

The actual chemistry (CAS numbers) is "proprietary" and not disclosed.

View attachment 84116
Organic chemistry was a long time ago but Hydrated inorganic acid, organic acid salts smells like an HOAT to me - very typical of Asian OEMs.

Most importantly its "green" so the curmudgeons should be happy.

Dan

If hard water is an issue which l don't believe is a problem. Having spent twenty years in the automotive industry ten of which as a mechanic, no one l knew used water other than what came out of a hose to fill a radiator. If hard water is a concern, use the water out of a dehumidifier. Sane goes for batteries. Tap water out of hose was used to fill batteries. I'm sure it still is on serviceable batteries. Most homes have a softener system anyway. Some have mineral filters too. The issue years ago was the acid from the old anti freeze ate up seals, water pumps, hoses, and radiators, heater core. Re core of radiators was common business back in the day.