Advice from L3902 HST owners

[PaulL]

You want the RimGuard.

Dan

I'd argue it's usually optional, better to try without first. It's annoying in many ways having it, but if you need it you need it.

When there's a bigger machine sitting right next to it, unlikely this machine will be lifting massive weight. Compared to most people, RimGuard less important than others.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I'd argue it's usually optional, better to try without first. It's annoying in many ways having it, but if you need it you need it.

When there's a bigger machine sitting right next to it, unlikely this machine will be lifting massive weight. Compared to most people, RimGuard less important than others.

It could be sitting next to a Cat track loader and it matters not a whit. Any L02 with a loader on it needs added ballast.

Dan

 

[PaulL]

It could be sitting next to a Cat track loader and it matters not a whit. Any L02 with a loader on it needs added ballast.

Dan

Yes. Doesn't mean loaded tires though.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Yes. Doesn't mean loaded tires though.

You should have limited your "argument" to just that.

Dan

 

[mcmxi]

I'd argue it's usually optional, better to try without first. It's annoying in many ways having it, but if you need it you need it.

When there's a bigger machine sitting right next to it, unlikely this machine will be lifting massive weight. Compared to most people, RimGuard less important than others.

I have RimGuard in the rear tires of both tractors and had it in the MX6000 that I sold and have never found it to be "annoying" in any way, shape or form. Obviously when checking or adjusting tire pressure the valve needs to be above the level of the fluid in the tire, but that's not hard to accomplish.

In what other ways is fluid in the tires annoying to you? It's good to have access to information and perhaps there are other issues that I haven't encountered.

 

[fried1765]

It could be sitting next to a Cat track loader and it matters not a whit. Any L02 with a loader on it needs added ballast.

Dan

"added ballast" = BH !

 

[PaulL]

I have RimGuard in the rear tires of both tractors and had it in the MX6000 that I sold and have never found it to be "annoying" in any way, shape or form. Obviously when checking or adjusting tire pressure the valve needs to be above the level of the fluid in the tire, but that's not hard to accomplish.

In what other ways is fluid in the tires annoying to you? It's good to have access to information and perhaps there are other issues that I haven't encountered.

It's an ongoing discussion on OTT. Some people are adamant that loaded tires are essential on any tractor irrespective of use. Some people don't like loaded tires. I'm in the latter camp, but my view is that it's horses for courses.

Tire ballast has implications:
1. It's permanent weight. Removable ballast is....removeable. Loaded tires are always loaded. If you are on the lawn around the house, if you need to trailer the machine and are weight limited, then you're stuck with a heavier machine. Using an implement or ballast box for ballast means you can choose when you have that weight. Some people, in that situation, would often not ballast - can't be bothered putting the implement on. If that's you, get loaded tires. If, like me, you are pretty good at putting ballast on when you need it, then I think removable ballast is better

2. Loaded tires make the tractor ride harder. It removes a lot of your air cushion. If you drive at moderate speeds on rough terrain, you might rather the soft ride

3. An implement on the rear reduces the load on the front axle. The rear axle acts like a pivot - weight behind the rear axle lightens the front. We know this because if you put heavy weight on 3pt pallet forks, the front wheels come off the ground. For heavy loader work ballast that is behind the rear axle is easier on your machine than ballast in the tires

4. If you need to take a wheel off for some reason loaded tires make that much harder.

5. Depending on what you use to load the tires, it can cause your rims to rust, it can leak and make a mess, it can be environmentally undesirable, it can be expensive.

I'm not saying this means that nobody should ever load tires. Obviously people do it all the time and it helps with lots of things. In my opinion though, it's something you should do when you need it, not just on every tractor. Drive it for a while without, see if there's any issues you have with your usage that tire ballast would fix. If there are, then put ballast in. If not, then I think the tractor is better without.

 

[rc51stierhoff]

It's an ongoing discussion on OTT. Some people are adamant that loaded tires are essential on any tractor irrespective of use. Some people don't like loaded tires. I'm in the latter camp, but my view is that it's horses for courses.

Tire ballast has implications:
1. It's permanent weight. Removable ballast is....removeable. Loaded tires are always loaded. If you are on the lawn around the house, if you need to trailer the machine and are weight limited, then you're stuck with a heavier machine. Using an implement or ballast box for ballast means you can choose when you have that weight. Some people, in that situation, would often not ballast - can't be bothered putting the implement on. If that's you, get loaded tires. If, like me, you are pretty good at putting ballast on when you need it, then I think removable ballast is better

2. Loaded tires make the tractor ride harder. It removes a lot of your air cushion. If you drive at moderate speeds on rough terrain, you might rather the soft ride

3. An implement on the rear reduces the load on the front axle. The rear axle acts like a pivot - weight behind the rear axle lightens the front. We know this because if you put heavy weight on 3pt pallet forks, the front wheels come off the ground. For heavy loader work ballast that is behind the rear axle is easier on your machine than ballast in the tires

4. If you need to take a wheel off for some reason loaded tires make that much harder.

5. Depending on what you use to load the tires, it can cause your rims to rust, it can leak and make a mess, it can be environmentally undesirable, it can be expensive.

I'm not saying this means that nobody should ever load tires. Obviously people do it all the time and it helps with lots of things. In my opinion though, it's something you should do when you need it, not just on every tractor. Drive it for a while without, see if there's any issues you have with your usage that tire ballast would fix. If there are, then put ballast in. If not, then I think the tractor is better without.

Have you regularly used a tractor with loader that has filled tires on it?

 

[PaulL]

Have you regularly used a tractor with loader that has filled tires on it?

My tractor does not have filled tires, so no. Does that invalidate any of my points? I have a ballast box, that works perfectly fine for me, and I can take it off when I mow.

 

[mcmxi]

It's an ongoing discussion on OTT. Some people are adamant that loaded tires are essential on any tractor irrespective of use. Some people don't like loaded tires. I'm in the latter camp, but my view is that it's horses for courses.

Tire ballast has implications:
1. It's permanent weight. Removable ballast is....removeable. Loaded tires are always loaded. If you are on the lawn around the house, if you need to trailer the machine and are weight limited, then you're stuck with a heavier machine. Using an implement or ballast box for ballast means you can choose when you have that weight. Some people, in that situation, would often not ballast - can't be bothered putting the implement on. If that's you, get loaded tires. If, like me, you are pretty good at putting ballast on when you need it, then I think removable ballast is better

2. Loaded tires make the tractor ride harder. It removes a lot of your air cushion. If you drive at moderate speeds on rough terrain, you might rather the soft ride

3. An implement on the rear reduces the load on the front axle. The rear axle acts like a pivot - weight behind the rear axle lightens the front. We know this because if you put heavy weight on 3pt pallet forks, the front wheels come off the ground. For heavy loader work ballast that is behind the rear axle is easier on your machine than ballast in the tires

4. If you need to take a wheel off for some reason loaded tires make that much harder.

5. Depending on what you use to load the tires, it can cause your rims to rust, it can leak and make a mess, it can be environmentally undesirable, it can be expensive.

I'm not saying this means that nobody should ever load tires. Obviously people do it all the time and it helps with lots of things. In my opinion though, it's something you should do when you need it, not just on every tractor. Drive it for a while without, see if there's any issues you have with your usage that tire ballast would fix. If there are, then put ballast in. If not, then I think the tractor is better without.

That's a well-thought out and reasoned list.

#1 - most aspects of tractor ownership require planning, and if trailoring is a possibility, then plan accordingly and don't buy a trailer that's just enough
#2 - can be offset with a good seat such as a Grammer air ride seat, although tire size and wheelbase will affect ride more than the addition of liquid ballast
#4 - is a rare occurrence and wheel weights are harder to deal with than liquid ballast
#5 - is a non-starter with RimGuard

For me and my situation, I need traction when pulling cutters over my hilly property, and when blowing or pushing snow, so wheel weights and liquid ballast, along with the weight of the cab really helps. The load is always going to be supported by the axles and wheels, obviously, and how heavy the loads are, and where they're located in relation to the front and rear axles will affect the weight distribution on each axle. But for many situations, weight on the rear axle in the form of liquid ballast and/or wheel weights makes the tractor feel a lot more stable when using the loader even if the weight distribution on each axle isn't ideal.

 

[PaulL]

That's a well-thought out and reasoned list.

#1 - most aspects of tractor ownership require planning, and if trailoring is a possibility, then plan accordingly and don't buy a trailer that's just enough
#2 - can be offset with a good seat such as a Grammer air ride seat, although tire size and wheelbase will affect ride more than the addition of liquid ballast
#4 - is a rare occurrence and wheel weights are harder to deal with than liquid ballast
#5 - is a non-starter with RimGuard

For me and my situation, I need traction when pulling cutters over my hilly property, and when blowing or pushing snow, so wheel weights and liquid ballast, along with the weight of the cab really helps. The load is always going to be supported by the axles and wheels, obviously, and how heavy the loads are, and where they're located in relation to the front and rear axles will affect the weight distribution on each axle. But for many situations, weight on the rear axle in the form of liquid ballast and/or wheel weights makes the tractor feel a lot more stable when using the loader even if the weight distribution on each axle isn't ideal.

Reasonable enough.

I note that one big advantage (in some circumstances) of filled tires is that your ballast is directly on the ground, not weight on your axles and associated gubbons. It only puts strain on the axles when the tractor is trying to lift a wheel - backhoe outriggers, or over bumps or rough terrain. Jury is probably out whether that's materially better for your machine (and if so, in what circumstances it is), but it is a difference.

For me, I have a lightweight trailer that my tractor fits on fine, but is probably a little heavy for. My tow vehicle is over specified, so it can control the trailer fine....but I wouldn't want another couple hundred kg when it's on the trailer. I could buy a bigger trailer. But I don't need to if I don't fill the tires. I don't need a bigger trailer for anything else, and because my trailer is single axle (and unbraked) and a tipper it's easy to drive the tractor onto.

My machine is also my mower for my lawns. It already makes more ruts than I'd like in winter. Extra weight would be quite negative for this use.

 

[rc51stierhoff]

My tractor does not have filled tires, so no. Does that invalidate any of my points? I have a ballast box, that works perfectly fine for me, and I can take it off when I mow.

It’s an interesting perspective. That’s why I asked. Everyone has a unique use for their machine(s) capability.

For me, filled tires increase traction, stability and safety (that extends to my spousal unit who also uses the machine from time to time). Kubota thinks it’s important enough to have a section in the owners manual for it. YMMV.

 

[TheOldHokie]

That's a well-thought out and reasoned list.

#1 - most aspects of tractor ownership require planning, and if trailoring is a possibility, then plan accordingly and don't buy a trailer that's just enough
#2 - can be offset with a good seat such as a Grammer air ride seat, although tire size and wheelbase will affect ride more than the addition of liquid ballast
#4 - is a rare occurrence and wheel weights are harder to deal with than liquid ballast
#5 - is a non-starter with RimGuard

For me and my situation, I need traction when pulling cutters over my hilly property, and when blowing or pushing snow, so wheel weights and liquid ballast, along with the weight of the cab really helps. The load is always going to be supported by the axles and wheels, obviously, and how heavy the loads are, and where they're located in relation to the front and rear axles will affect the weight distribution on each axle. But for many situations, weight on the rear axle in the form of liquid ballast and/or wheel weights makes the tractor feel a lot more stable when using the loader even if the weight distribution on each axle isn't ideal.

Add to that that there is no free lunch

# 3 takes the load off the front axle and adds twice as much to the rear axle,

Dan

 

[mcmxi]

Reasonable enough.

I note that one big advantage (in some circumstances) of filled tires is that your ballast is directly on the ground, not weight on your axles and associated gubbons. It only puts strain on the axles when the tractor is trying to lift a wheel - backhoe outriggers, or over bumps or rough terrain. Jury is probably out whether that's materially better for your machine (and if so, in what circumstances it is), but it is a difference.

That is a good point about liquid ballast not adding weight or additional load on the axles, unlike wheel weights.

 

[TheOldHokie]

That is a good point about liquid ballast not adding weight or additional load on the axles, unlike wheel weights.

Most wheel weights attach to the wheels and the load is carried by the tires not the axle - no different than liquid ballast.

Dan

 

[chim]

My little Ford has plain ol' air-filled R1 tires. It has no loader BUT has a couple suitcase weights on the front to offset the weight of the 5' RFM.

The Kubota has liquid ballast in the rear tires. Mowing accounts for at least 90% of the use. I mow without the loader in 2WD and the R4's work fine.

When using the FEL between April and November, the 7-1/2' RFM is on except for the odd times there's a rake or drag behind it. No need for additional ballast then. In Winter (when we actually have one) it may or may not have something on the back end for ballast. I made a concrete-filled drum, but almost never use it. Probably sell it.

 

[PaulL]

My little Ford has plain ol' air-filled R1 tires. It has no loader BUT has a couple suitcase weights on the front to offset the weight of the 5' RFM.

The Kubota has liquid ballast in the rear tires. Mowing accounts for at least 90% of the use. I mow without the loader in 2WD and the R4's work fine.

When using the FEL between April and November, the 7-1/2' RFM is on except for the odd times there's a rake or drag behind it. No need for additional ballast then. In Winter (when we actually have one) it may or may not have something on the back end for ballast. I made a concrete-filled drum, but almost never use it. Probably sell it.

I have a steel ballast box. Cheap chinesium one. I filled it with paving offcuts I had lying around. It doesn't stick out as far as putting an implement on the back, and it's quite a bit easier to take on and off than an implement. Since I make my machine as light as I can for mowing, the loader and any rear implements come off whenever I'm done with them, so it's important the ballast goes on easily, or I might decide not to bother putting it on.

It is amazing how much more stable the machine is with the MMM off, and the ballast on. With loader and ballast, it pitches back and forth a lot (lots of weight at either end like a pendulum), but it sticks the rear wheels to the ground and that also gives a lot of resistance to tipping sideways, plus quite a bit more traction. I do dirt work for some local community land, so I'm in and out of ditches, up and down hills, and digging drainage. It's always surprises me how much more stable the machine is with rear ballast.

 

[jyoutz]

It’s an interesting perspective. That’s why I asked. Everyone has a unique use for their machine(s) capability.

For me, filled tires increase traction, stability and safety (that extends to my spousal unit who also uses the machine from time to time). Kubota thinks it’s important enough to have a section in the owners manual for it. YMMV.

I think the key factor is whether or not a tractor is used for finished lawn mowing. My tractor is way too heavy and large for that, so filled tires makes the most sense, if someone has a small, light tractor with a mmm, I can see not installing liquid ballast. I prefer my ZTM and push mower for lawn maintenance and keep my tractor off the lawn, using the rotary cutter for field mowing.

 

[rc51stierhoff]

I think the key factor is whether or not a tractor is used for finished lawn mowing. My tractor is way too heavy and large for that, so filled tires makes the most sense, if someone has a small, light tractor with a mmm, I can see not installing liquid ballast. I prefer my ZTM and push mower for lawn maintenance and keep my tractor off the lawn, using the rotary cutter for field mowing.

Isn’t this a thread about L3902 with a loader?

Tractors smaller than a MX also benefit from being properly ballasted. The size and weight might be different, but physics/fundamentals are same.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Isn’t this thread about L3902 with a loader?

And no MMM but not anymore....

Dan