2011 RTV 500 Low Compression

[L185 Owner]

Hello All:

I have the opportunity to purchase a 2011 RTV 500 with 600 hours for approx 1000.00 from a dealer. They took it on a trade and haven't done anything with it. The machine looks good so when i inquired about what is wrong with it they told me they though it had "low compression." I can think of a few things that could cause this, blown head gasket, cracked head, scoured block..etc.

My question is where could i find a new engine for this machine if i needed one? Also how hard would it be to fix this machine? Any suggestions on what to check? It seems like a decent deal but have limited knowledge on what i would be getting myself into. Im comfortable doing a fair amount of mechanical work if i know what needs to be done. It seems like the resources out there for these machines are hard to come by??

 

[rentthis]

This doesn't pass the smell test. If you bought it from a dealer for $1000.00, you must have pictures of him shooting children. You could buy a new engine and still not have near the value of the machine in it. A dealer knows that too. To answer your question, you can buy that engine from the same dealer.

 

[L185 Owner]

I have not bought it yet. I have inquired about it and they have told me they would sell it to me for that price. Not sure if I follow your comment. I know i can buy a new engine from the dealer, I'm more interested in help diagnosing the problem, fixing the problem, and getting advise on the costs. Based on your comment do you think there is more wrong with the machine than they were leading on based on the low price? I dont want to spend more than $4000 on any side by side as i dont have a huge need for one rather it would be handy to have for the small acreage that im on. Any advice on the due diligence i could do, items to check?

 

[skohler]

My response is not going to help you either, but I'm in the market for one and have seen a lot of prices- something does not seem right here. Around my parts, if everything worked as it should it would be priced ~6-7k

The cheapest "problem" rtv I've seen had 4x more hours and likely needed a new transmission. It also looked like it was dropped or fell of a trailer. I think it was in the $4k range. Not sure what I sold for, but it wasn't $1k.

Maybe your market is vastly different from mine (Pennsylvania) , bit it seems like the dealer wants this hot potato out of his hands, I would be very diligent in looking this over to see what else is wrong. Good luck.

 

[D2Cat]

L185 Owner, what does the machine look like? Is it clean, or beat to snot? How many hours on it? What's the condition of the tires?

Unless it looks like if fell out of a helicopter, the tires a cut up and wore down, the seat is missing, starter and battery gone, the steering wheel is bent... pay the $1000. Then take a compression test and start diagnosing.

Worst possible situation then is you decide to no do any work and sell it as is, or part it out. Either way you don't lose any money and learn something in the process.

 

[rentthis]

My observation is that for a dealer to sell you a 600 hour RTV500 for that price, there is surely more of a problem than engine compression. As D2Cat said "unless it looks like it fell out of a helicopter". I will add at altitude. To answer your question re: repair, the only way to determine why it's losing compression is to tear into it. The easy things start with valves improperly adjusted and maybe a bad head gasket. From there, you are into a rebuild or replacement. If the condition of the machine is otherwise good, either of these would be worthwhile considering the cost and potential value of the machine. Keep the rest of the drive train in mind. There are plenty of other things between the engine and the tires that can be very costly. I would love to see pictures. This may turn out, for you, one of those once in a lifetime deals.

 

[L185 Owner]

I paid the dealer today. I think it looks fine but let me know your thoughts. They are gonna put a new battery in it for me and help me get it on the trailer. Tires seem fine, cosmetics look okay too.

I checked the oil in the machine. Transmission oil is clear/clean. No smell or anything strange. The engine oil smells a bit like gas. Its not overpowering but it has a gas type component to it. I has a bit of an orange coloring to it as well. Does that tip you off to what may be at issue? Should get it home this week and see what im in for!! Gonna need as much help as I can get!!

My first thought is to service it. Not sure how long it has been sitting there so some new oil, filters, gas, transmission fluid may be in order. What are your thoughts?

 

[lugbolt]

A new engine is available from Kubota. It's not cheap. IIRC, around $4500. We trade for and re-sell a few 500's a year. They don't bring a lot in this area, as they are not that popular. The Mule 610 is cheaper and does everything the 500 will do, it's easier to work on, and cheaper to service. And quieter. 95% of the people who test ride both the RTV500 and the 610 Mule, buy the Mule.

A replacement Mule engine is $1500 installed. RTV500, $4500-ish. The 500's are expensive and people know it, and when something goes wrong, and they can't/don't want to fix, they usually dump them for pennies on the dollar knowing the repair costs. I've bought a few 900's this way.

 

[1970cs]

Lugbolt has it right $4500.00 for the engine. Split the rear subframe and R&R the engine and reassemble 12-14 hrs. So labor and misc. materials $1400.00

$6900.00. New RTV500-H is around mid 9's so for a dealer, it won't make any money. Let alone if they gave anything in on trade.

I disagree with the mule being a better machine. The RTV has hydro not a cheap belt drive which can flat spot belt if under heavy loads. The RTV has a twin cylinder, liquid cooled engine. Compared to a 1 cylinder air cooled.

The RTV will out haul and out pull the mule. As a mater of fact at the 2013 Kubota national meeting they compared the mule and the RTV400 which more apples to apples the mule would not pull 1200 lbs of dead weight.
The RTV would pull it no problem, plus they hooked the 400 to the mule and it towed the mule and the 1200 lbs.

Pat

 

[rentthis]

You said it smells like it has gas in the oil.Is this machine gas or diesel. If it is gas, they are much cheaper to repair. Looking at the pictures, I would love to have it for one grand. It would make a great project machine. Those things are popular in SC.

 

[coachgeo]

You said it smells like it has gas in the oil.Is this machine gas or diesel. If it is gas, .....

it's a Petrol engine. not diesel

 

[L185 Owner]

Update and a Call For Help!!

I have got the RTV home. I put a new battery in it. And cleaned it, it was DIRTY. Mud all in the frame and everywhere you could imagine. Drained the fuel tank, put a gallon or so of new fuel in the tank. Blown all the fuel lines out. Verified the fuel pump is working, I disconnected the fuel line from the throttle body and turned on the key and it squirts fuel. I have spark, verified by a inline tester and a couple of shocks. I have changed the spark plugs. I tested the compression........,,READS ZERO ON BOTH PLUGS!!!!!!!! I checked the tester on my lawnmower and it 150 psi so the tester seems to work...

What is wrong with his thing? I put a paper towel by the exhaust pipe and it moved so it is pushing air out the tail pipe. For some reason, this doesn't seem normal to me, but the air filter housing seems to be pushing air out rather than pulling it in???!! The reason I say that is because I put a paper towel on it and I blows it away rather than sucking it in.

I don't see any leaks on the engine where oil is escaping, none on the ground where it is parked. It doesn't "seem" to have a blown head gasket...would know how to really see that anyway by the engine is dry....no leaks or mess in it..How could I have ZERO compression?? What is wrong....any help will be appreciated.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

I'm going to say most likely broken timing belt.
The cam is not turning so the valves are not working, thus no compression.

 

[Tooljunkie]

Timing belt,eh?
Who woulda thunk it?
So as long as parts dont collide when valves are open and piston all the way up you may not have to spend a lot on parts.
Need a bore scope to check if there is piston damage. Otherwise start tearing it down.

 

[lugbolt]

Timing belt,eh?
Need a bore scope to check if there is piston damage. Otherwise start tearing it down.

Don't need to scope it, just check valve clearance. If one or more valves are really loose, they're bent, thus the head needs to come off regardless. I don't remember if it was an interference or non-interference engine. Be the first one I've seen with a broken timing belt, if in fact it's broken. Please keep us updated, if you can.

 

[L185 Owner]

Quick update and question.

Called a dealer and they confirmed that it could very well be a timing belt. They also said they believed it is a clearance engine. I have been spinning the thing over from time to time trying to start it and haven't heard any bad metal on metal clambering. The next thing they mentioned was I would have to "line everything up" if I am going to replace the possibly broken belt.

My question to them and to anyone here is...where is the timing belt? They said it was on the drive side behind the alternator belt and behind a cover. Listening to that I think I can find it. But not sure about lining everything up. Does anyone have a WSM for this unit that I can look at? What about a tensioner?What am I getting into and what do I have to make sure I do? I have been googling and watching every you tube video I can about timing belts, they are all cars, but figured it might give me a vague idea of what to expect. What about cam shaft orientation, what if the belt is off does lining everything up take that into account?

The next item they said to do was take the valve cover off and see if the valves move when you turn the engine. Not sure what that will show me but I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

Pulling the valve cover and seeing if the valves move will tell you if it truely is the timing belt.

Setting the timing of the belt is normally very easy, the pulleys will have marks that you line up, exact procedure will be in the WSM, you will need to get that to do the rebuild.

Go here and get the manual:
http://kubota.servicemanualvault.com/index.html#utv

 

[SDMauler]

The fact that both cylinders have no compression doesn't make me think of timing belt right away, given also the fact that the intake is "blowing air out". What are the chances both intake valves could be open at the same time ever, much less with a broken timing belt? Is it possible they went Submarining with this UTV, given the copious mud? I'm wondering if the motor got hydrauliced and bent the valves, or worse, broke the con rods. Just a thought, but in any case, you should be prepared for a complete tear down. You might also consider a repower with a compatible-sized engine.

 

[bucktail]

It's entirely possible. I'd still start with the valve covers first though.

 

[L185 Owner]

Update - Wolfman strikes again...timing belt is broken!!!!

So it took the timing belt cover off...turned the key....crank was moving...belt was stationary....belt was broken. Not sure how, but we'll get to that. I removed the belt gonna order a new one. The top gear, I'm assuming it's the cam gear, when i turned it by hand it "popped or turned" like you would imagine, for example I turned it from 12 to 3 and then it spins to 6. That felt normal and seems encouraging....I think!!

So my questions are: there is a bearing in timing belt area, looks like the belt rides on it some how. They are shot, they won't turn. Do they pull off so they can be replaced or is that a tensioner that needs to be replaced? There is some rust on the crank gear. It looks like water got on the bottom 5th of the crank gear and it has some rust on it. Can I wire brush and blow it off? Should I coat it in WD 40? The whole area has belt particles in it, is it safe to blow it out with a blow pipe/air compressor?

Now, a question no one probably knows the answer to is why did the belt break? The bearings are all but frozen so that could have caused it but that leads me to my final question. In an effort to be cautious....do I need to take the head cover off and look at the valves? Mainly I'm asking.....if I put the new belt on...crank it....if the valves or bent or something like that will I cause catastrophic problems that I could see/prevent now?

Otherwise, I'm super excited that this thing may be close to running and can't say THANK YOU enough to everyone who has helped....especially a fellow from Idaho who has been spot on with a diagnosis to both posts I've started.

I'll stop now and let you get to the questions above!!!