resurfacing flywheel mm reference values

[olthumpa]

When you have the flywheel turned on a Kubota L275 with a two stage clutch, what are the Reference Value in millimeters for the difference in height between the outside of the flywheel, (where the Pressure Plate rests), and the inside of the flywheel where the Clutch Disc is compressed between Clutch Cover 1 and the flywheel? I have already had the flywheel turned and want to check this measurement but can not find any specks. I am putting in a completely new two stage clutch assembly and can not get the second stage to disengage. This is the only thing that I can think of that I have not tried yet. I have looked everywhere I could think of to find this number without any luck.


What have you tried so far?: I have tried using longer bolts on clutch cover 1 to engage the bearing sooner but this did not help. The entire clutch assembly seems to be too high for the second stage adjusting bolts to engage the pressure plate. Clearance between Pressure Plate 2 and Adjusting Bolts is .95mm (reference value is .95 to 1.00mm). Have taken apart and reassembled several times. Unbolted FEL frame to gain access to second adjustment port in bell-housing.

Also, what is the minimum thickness that the flywheel can be machined to?


Flywheel part # 15525-25010 superseded by 15525-25013

Dual Clutch # 35290-14200 superseded by 32425-14200

Make: Kubota
Model: L275DT
Year: 1982

Engine: D1302-A


Thanks for your time

 

[Big Kahuna]

Clearence between top of adjusting screw and pto pressure plate should be 1.0mm ( .039 )

Clearence between gage block and release lever adjusting screws should be
.3mm ( .012 )
Nothing is stated about flywheel thickness so I don't think I would worry about as long as the adjustments come in.

 

[olthumpa]

Clearence between top of adjusting screw and pto pressure plate should be 1.0mm ( .039 )

Clearence between gage block and release lever adjusting screws should be
.3mm ( .012 )
Nothing is stated about flywheel thickness so I don't think I would worry about as long as the adjustments come in.

Thank you for your reply.

I have adjusted and readjusted the clearances several times without any luck. When I bolt the clutch assembly to the flywheel the release levers drop down quite low into the center of the clutch assembly as it is being tightened up. When the clutch peddle is depressed there is very little travel left in the release levers not allowing the second stage to be released. The only thing I can conclude is that the center of the flywheel is to high pushing the whole clutch assembly to far up into the clutch cover.

I appreciate and welcome any thoughts and suggestions.

 

[Big Kahuna]

Did you try the clutch pedal adjustment to help you out?

Big Kahuna

 

[olthumpa]

Did you try the clutch pedal adjustment to help you out?

Big Kahuna

Yes, I adjusted it all most all the way out and the bearing still was not close to the release levers. Pressing down on the peddle disengaged the first stage then bottomed out unable to release the second stage. The second stage lockout on the outside of the case was flipped up allowing full travel of the clutch peddle. Also, by looking down through the whole where the steering column was removed from, you can see the release levers start to bend if you exert extra force on the peddle but the rod releases do not lift any further.

 

[lsmurphy]

At the risk of asking a foolish question.........


Is there any way that the throw out bearing is installed backwards?

 

[olthumpa]

At the risk of asking a foolish question.........


Is there any way that the throw out bearing is installed backwards?

When I had the flywheel turned for $5.00 more I had them remove and install the new bearing.

Is it posable, yes but I do not believe so.

"I have tried using longer bolts on clutch cover 1 to engage the bearing sooner but this did not help." These bolts were used just to see what would happen and the second stage still would not disengage.

 

[olthumpa]

At the risk of asking a foolish question.........


Is there any way that the throw out bearing is installed backwards?

Just checked the old bearing that was taken off and the new one that was pressed on. It is installed correctly.

Thanks

 

[Kubota_Bob]

Hi,

Maybe an owner of a L275, on the OTT forum, with a 2-stage clutch could measure the depth of the step???????

OR

You might try a friendly KUBOTA dealer or maybe Parts Vic has a flywheel in stock that he could measure???????

If the step is incorrect 2 things will happen....

1....The clamping force of the pressure plate on the clutch disc will be reduced.

2....The height and angle of the fingers in relation to the throw out bearing will be incorrect.

The correct depth of the step is very important, in any application, for proper operation.

Bob

 

[olthumpa]

Hi,

Maybe an owner of a L275, on the OTT forum, with a 2-stage clutch could measure the depth of the step???????

OR

You might try a friendly KUBOTA dealer or maybe Parts Vic has a flywheel in stock that he could measure???????

If the step is incorrect 2 things will happen....

1....The clamping force of the pressure plate on the clutch disc will be reduced.

2....The height and angle of the fingers in relation to the throw out bearing will be incorrect.

The correct depth of the step is very important, in any application, for proper operation.

Bob

Thanks for your reply.

I have talked to 6 different Kubota service dept - no help there.
I have called machine shops - no help there.
I have sent an email to Kubota corp asking for info - no response yet.
I have sent an email (today) to Service Vic asking for info - no response yet.
I have asked everyone that I know that might know the answer or a lead where to find it - no measurement yet.
I have tried everything that I could think of or anything that was suggested to resolve the problem without success.


"2....The height and angle of the fingers in relation to the throw out bearing will be incorrect."

The fingers are to low in the center of the clutch pack not allowing the second stage to disengage. The only thing that I have not done is have the flywheel returned but before I do this I need to know what the factory specs should be for it.

I have the service manual and all schematics for the tractor to reference but they have been useless solving this problem.

I burned up 18:32 min of a service managers time today asking him questions and walking me through the setup process for the 2 stage clutch - exactly how I have done it several times that I have taken everything apart and put everything back together.
Once I learn this pressious secret, the universe will be all mine.

Frustrated does not begin to express how I feel right now.

Rant completed!

 

[lsmurphy]

A second pair of eyes always helps me see when I am lost.


You know it's something simple............and once you see it.......you'll throw something.

 

[olthumpa]

Ok-desperate times call for desperate measures. I'm working late at the shop, so I didn't use the office scanner, only my iPhone so here's the complete clutch specifications for the L275 with DC-dual stage clutch.

Pics look small hope this helps for now.

That appears to be exactly what I need, unfortunately I can not bring them into focus or enlarge them with any clarity. The good thing is that I know there is an answer. If possible, could you post a clear image.

My sincere thanks for your time: Keith

 

[olthumpa]

A second pair of eyes always helps me see when I am lost.


You know it's something simple............and once you see it.......you'll throw something.

I seldom loose my temper - too costly. Last winter I decided to take my frustrations out on the wood pile with a 8lb splitting mall. Messed up my right shoulder and upper arm royally. Still recovering from that.

 

[olthumpa]

I still need the flywheel mm reference values. Can someone please help.

 

[olthumpa]

My scanner isn't working-I'll need to have them scanned elsewhere and email them to the shop.

Thank you for your reply.
The number that I need the most is the distance in height from where the clutch assembly bolts to the surface of the flywheel and where the drive clutch, (first stage), contacts the top surface.

Thanks again for your help.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

olthumpa,

I'm a little confused and need some clarity.
Is it new clutch disks and or pressure plates that you are installing?
Did you have the flywheel turned or resurfaced?
Why are you worried about the amount of metal that could have been milled off of the flywheel? The way I see it is even if they took 1/8" off of it (yes that would be drastic to say the least) then adjusting the clutch pedal travel should make up for the difference in the loss of that surface.
Unless they didn't take the same amount off the whole surface, and they only took material off of the point where the clutch disk contacts the flywheel, but then that would only make the clutch weak and not making the proper contact pressure, but not effect release times of the separate clutches, that would still be the same right?

Did you make sure that the right disk and backing plate ended up in the right place (sorry not sure if they have same diameter or internal splines) I would think they would be different and they couldn't be swapped.
Is it possible, if the parts are new, that they sold you the wrong parts? Were you able to compare the old to new parts?

Not trying to be condescending at all, just trying to get a better understanding.

 

[olthumpa]

olthumpa,

I'm a little confused and need some clarity.
Is it new clutch disks and or pressure plates that you are installing?
I am installing a complete new dual clutch assembly pt# 32425-14200, + pt#35290-14400 (drive clutch plate).
(Not where I got it from but you can see the assembly and the drive clutch can bee seen above the dual clutch assembly.) http://www.ebay.com/itm/KUBOTA-DUAL...=BI_Heavy_Equipment_Parts&hash=item230893f110

I also replaced the throw out bearing, pilot bearing, crank oil seal and the two gaskets behind the cover bearing.

Did you have the flywheel turned or resurfaced?
Yes, I had the flywheel resurfaced.

Why are you worried about the amount of metal that could have been milled off of the flywheel? The way I see it is even if they took 1/8" off of it (yes that would be drastic to say the least) then adjusting the clutch pedal travel should make up for the difference in the loss of that surface.

I have adjusted the clutch peddle from all the way in to all the way out without any change in clutch function.

Unless they didn't take the same amount off the whole surface,
The best I can verify, the flywheel seems to be evenly milled.

and they only took material off of the point where the clutch disk contacts the flywheel, but then that would only make the clutch weak and not making the proper contact pressure, but not effect release times of the separate clutches, that would still be the same right?

I agree with that assessment.

They milled both where the clutch cover and clutch disc come into contact with the flywheel. This creates a step up where the clutch disc makes contact and prevents the clutch cover from moving around. There are also four bolts and two studs to hold it in place.

My thoughts are just the opposite. They did not take enough off of the point where the clutch disk contacts the flywheel thereby pushing the first stage clutch plate, pressure plate and spring to far up into clutch cover #1. This would push the three assy rod releases up and force the three arms with the three adjustment bolts down into the center of the clutch assembly. (these can be seen in the first picture in the link)

That is what is happening. The adjustment bolts that are supposed to make contact with the throwout bearing are too far down in the center to have enough travel to allow the second stage to disengage. I have taken the bolts that came with the assembly off and replaced them with ones that are more than twice as long and the second stage still will not disengage, (put the correct ones back on). I have put enough pressure on the clutch peddle to see the levers bend, unable to raise the first stage any higher.

I have also checked, rechecked, and tried greater and lesser clearances for the adjustment bolts between the first and second stage. The reference value according to MSW is 0.95 - 1.00mm they are now set at 0.95mm.

Did you make sure that the right disk and backing plate ended up in the right place (sorry not sure if they have same diameter or internal splines) I would think they would be different and they couldn't be swapped.

They are different diameters and splines and can not be swapped. The dual clutch assembly can only go together one way and comes assembled from the factory but I checked to verify that it was correct.

Is it possible, if the parts are new, that they sold you the wrong parts? Were you able to compare the old to new parts?

Other than wear, the old and new parts are identical, (I still have the old parts), also matched part numbers.

Not trying to be condescending at all, just trying to get a better understanding.

Never thought that you were, I appreciate your time and input! If you have any more questions, please ask them.
/QUOTE]

 

[BAP]

When they milled the flywheel, did the take equal amounts from the inner portion and the outer part? If they didn't take the same amount then they won't adjust right. Also, if the flywheel is worn enough that when it is milled it is now too thin, the spline section of the clutch disc can get hung up on the bolt heads that hold the flywheel on. Another item that can happen is if the one of the temporary stop blocks that comes in the new pressure plate to hold it until you bolt it in place, is left in it will keep your new clutch from operating properly. Any possibility one of the clutch disc is in backwards as most are slightly different from one side to the other in the spline section but can be put in place both ways with only one being correct. Good Luck

 

[olthumpa]

deleted double post

 

[olthumpa]

When they milled the flywheel, did the take equal amounts from the inner portion and the outer part? If they didn't take the same amount then they won't adjust right.

I did not measure it before I brought it in to be milled but It definitely does not adjust right now..

Also, if the flywheel is worn enough that when it is milled it is now too thin, the spline section of the clutch disc can get hung up on the bolt heads that hold the flywheel on.

It does not hang up right now but that is a major concern of mine if it has to be milled again and a new flywheel is expensive.

Another item that can happen is if the one of the temporary stop blocks that comes in the new pressure plate to hold it until you bolt it in place, is left in it will keep your new clutch from operating properly.

No blocks.

Any possibility one of the clutch disc is in backwards as most are slightly different from one side to the other in the spline section but can be put in place both ways with only one being correct. Good Luck

Both discs are in correctly. The second stage pressure plate is not being lifted to disengage the clutch.

Thanks for your help.