Electric Vehicles. Can anyone make this make sense?

[SDT]

I know there are many on here much more knowledgeable than I on many topics, including electric power generation and transmission, thus the question.

To my stupid, simple self it seems totally crazy to think our current power grid is anywhere close to being able to handle the increased load of mass adoption of fully electric vehicles. Got to thinking about it because this morning we’re asked to reduce consumption of electricity because it’s cold. Just cold. Majority of residential systems here are the heat pump/“emergency” strip heat the power company has been pushing for many years, but when it gets really cold for a few days they can’t handle the demand.

Also appears to be a nearly insane security risk. If the majority of personal and business vehicles (saw an electric tri-axle Mack boom truck delivering sheetrock a few days ago) are electric grid dependent, an attack on a substation, or worse a power plant, would be unacceptably crippling to a large area.

Makes the battery fires look like one of the more minor issues. I’ve been to training classes for responding to lithium battery fires and for O&C investigation after, but it’s been a couple years so maybe they’ve come up with some miracle to handle them. Couple years ago they were a total nightmare.

Pairing an internal combustion engine with a battery and electric drive makes some sense to me. That’s retaining the same level of autonomy as internal combustion only and isn’t adding load to the electric grid.

Government forced grid dependent full electric appears mind numbingly stupid. I don’t want to go all tin foil hat conspiracy theory, but what am I missing? Is there some way to make the current push for grid dependent electric vehicles make sense?

It is, indeed "mind numbingly stupid," and I've been trying to tell anyone who will listen just how so for about 20 years. Don't get me started.

 

[hagrid]

As per usual, "follow the money".

 

[SDT]

[




Short answer - demand fuels expansion.

You are already seeing lots of interest and money flowing into nuclear. It will be interesting to see how that dynamic works out in the next decade.

Dan

Bingo.

I've advocated for nuclear power for decades, especially small modular units, only to find that all of the English and History majors that I worked with wanted to debate the feasibility of such while knowing absolutely nothing about technology.

SMRs will be popping up like daiseys, especially privately owned units.

 

[SDT]

If I were a conspiracy theorist, I would point out that the plan is to transfer the national energy system from free enterprise (more or less) gas/oil/petroleum products to government controlled electricity.

Ever since the oil crisis of the '70's, in the US at least, there has been a lot of mistrust of Big Oil and letting the free market work. Government has played a role in this. I was astounded that the two largest oil companies in the world, Exxon and Mobil, were allowed to merge with nary a peep from the FTC or either party/either house of congress.

It never ceases to amaze me how so many people continue to see government as the solution to each problem, in spite of more and more failures and abuses.

. . . stepping off soap box . . .

Your soap box is very much like mine.

 

[SDT]

In Memphis, I think they installed natural gas turbine generators to drive the data center. I don't think they got the emissions permits for this. Remember when gas was the 'clean fuel'? Now it's killing us to cook or heat our homes with it, but these datacenters are free to use it like there's an unlimited supply.

Which leads me to this, what are all these datacenters doing? These energy- hungry behemoths are going up everywhere.
Again, IF I were a conspiracy theorist I might suggest they are mining our every word, transaction, etc that passes through the internet. For what? We already see how it's being used to direct targeted advertising against us. To a small degree this can be beneficial, if we weren't getting bombarded with shotgunned crap. But, since big brother has started to demonstrate its ability and willingness to demand access to this information, where will it end?

Edit to add words to ponder
Dan 12:4 “But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”

. . . picking self up after falling off soap box . . .
(If you don't see my posts on here after this, well . . .)

Turns out that the latest trend for data center power is (Are you ready for this?) reciprocating natural gas fueled prime movers.

It seems that the dynamic response of such engines is well suited to the continuously varying power requirements of the data centers.

Some (most/all?) such units are currently built in Finland.

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Turns out that the latest trend for data center power is (Are you ready for this?) reciprocating natural gas fueled prime movers.

It seems that the dynamic response of such engines is well suited to the continuously varying power requirements of the data centers.

Some (most/all?) such units are currently built in Finland.

Interesting, I wonder what engines they use. The church we attended, built in the 50's, was cooled with a 75t R22 system, radial compressor driven by a Diamond Reo? 6 cylinder running on natural gas. As a teenager, my contribution was to fire up the AC on Wednesday morning and Saturday night during the summer months. If I was out with my buds, I had to break off long enough to do my job. Sometime in the 80's, I think, they replaced it with a more conventional electric system.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Bingo.

I've advocated for nuclear power for decades, especially small modular units, only to find that all of the English and History majors that I worked with wanted to debate the feasibility of such while knowing absolutely nothing about technology.

SMRs will be popping up like daiseys, especially privately owned units.

To date not a single daisy has sprouted and the first and last seed planted rotted in the ground.

First commercial SMR project cancelled due to construction cost overruns and the expected increase in unit cost of generation - e.g. it could not compete with other technologies

Show me the beef.

Dan

 

[SDT]

To date not a single daisy has sprouted and the first and last seed planted rotted in the ground.

First commercial SMR project cancelled due to construction cost overruns and the expected increase in unit cost of generation - e.g. it could not compete with other technologies

Show me the beef.

Dan

Stay tuned.

 

[SDT]

Interesting, I wonder what engines they use. The church we attended, built in the 50's, was cooled with a 75t R22 system, radial compressor driven by a Diamond Reo? 6 cylinder running on natural gas. As a teenager, my contribution was to fire up the AC on Wednesday morning and Saturday night during the summer months. If I was out with my buds, I had to break off long enough to do my job. Sometime in the 80's, I think, they replaced it with a more conventional electric system.

Here is one article about Finnish made NG fueled reciprocating engines designed for data center applications.

Wärtsilä to supply 429MW of gas turbines to US power plant set to serve data center - DCD

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Here is one article about Finnish made NG fueled reciprocating engines designed for data center applications.

Wärtsilä to supply 429MW of gas turbines to US power plant set to serve data center - DCD

The title says turbines, but Wartsila and Volvo Penta make recips AFAIK. At one time, Cat made some large (relative) peaking/backup generators.

To me, this doesn't seem to be a long-term solution. I'm guessing this data center thing is a fad, or they're temporary fixes until the utility companies can build better plants.

 

[Russell King]

To date not a single daisy has sprouted and the first and last seed planted rotted in the ground.

First commercial SMR project cancelled due to construction cost overruns and the expected increase in unit cost of generation - e.g. it could not compete with other technologies

Show me the beef.

Dan

Westinghouse Nuclear (whatever name they currently use) supplied an AP1000 and it is operating at Plant Vogtle for the Southern Company that supplies utility power to many southern states. I am not sure it qualifies as “SRM” but it is a new nuclear plant in recent history (2020 time frame?).

That AP1000 can supposedly be duplicated “easily”.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Westinghouse Nuclear (whatever name they currently use) supplied an AP1000 and it is operating at Plant Vogtle for the Southern Company that supplies utility power to many southern states. I am not sure it qualifies as “SRM” but it is a new nuclear plant in recent history (2020 time frame?).

That AP1000 can supposedly be duplicated “easily”.

It is not an SRM.

Interest in nuclear is making a resurgence but SRMs are still just a twinkle in NuScale Power's eye. Right now its a risky venture heavily subsidized by the US government. It may or may not ever payoff.

On the other hand restarting the Palisades and TMI plants is a far less risky investment and far more doable in the near term. They will be up and running long before anything from NuScale.

Dan

 

[GreensvilleJay]

hmm, sub nukes are pretty reliable. maybe have a network of them distributed here,there, everywhere !

 

[TheOldHokie]

hmm, sub nukes are pretty reliable. maybe have a network of them distributed here,there, everywhere !

Now theres a fuel you really want in every neighborhood

Dan

 

[jimh406]

Now theres a fuel you really want in every neighborhood

I don't know. How many sub nukes have failed?

 

[TheOldHokie]

I don't know. How many sub nukes have failed?

None AFAIK. But SSBNs are fueled with highly enriched (weapons grade) uranium.

 

[North Idaho Wolfman]

None AFAIK. But SSBNs are fueled with highly enriched (weapons grade) uranium.

YEA, Because nothing bad ever happened with giving everyone radioactive material to play with.

 

[AndyM]

When a gas plant blows up, you wait a few days, bring in the dozers and rebuild. When a nuc (pick your flavor) blows up, well, you know.

 

[Hugo Habicht]

I don't know. How many sub nukes have failed?

You obviously did not read the Wikipedia link in post #58

Very impressive, particularly the "cleanup" operation.

Anybody suggesting nuclear should come up with a solution for the storage of the waste for the next 200000 to 500000 years first. And provide the storage cost up front.

 

[jimh406]

You obviously did not read the Wikipedia link in post #58

Very impressive, particularly the "cleanup" operation.

Anybody suggesting nuclear should come up with a solution for the storage of the waste for the next 200000 to 500000 years first. And provide the storage cost up front.

How about since 1961?