In search of a better truck for towing the M6060 and folding cutter.

[McMXi]

I spent some time at the local Ford dealer this afternoon talking with the salesman, looking at the F-450, checking out the ridiculous level of luxury and features in the cab, the cameras all over the place, the heated and cooled seats, the 12" display, etc. I took it on a very short test drive which was revealing in terms of handling but didn't really show off the 500 hp/1,200 lb-ft that the engine claims. It's not practical to show up with a 20,000 lb trailer and hook it up for a demo but that would be helpful.

It's a gorgeous truck and possibly way too nice for me. Part of me would like to find a good towing truck that's half or third of the price of this one given my intended use and likely low mileage per year. This 2024 F-450 Lariat would only be used 6,000 miles or less per year unless I sell the '02 F-250, and then I still wouldn't want to use it in the winter months. If it were a daily driver (not that I drive daily) it might be an easier pill to swallow. At the current selling price it's just too much of everything.

I noticed some staining in the cloth of the headliner at the top of the A-pillars which was odd. I asked the salesman to have someone check on possible issues. My first thought is that the gigantic moon-roof was left open and rain got in, or possibly the drains that run inside the A-pillars froze or were blocked causing water to seep in. I don't know, but it was odd and gave me some cause for concern. This truck came from Canada, so I took photos of the underside of the truck and it looks fine. There's some corrosion on the cheap exhaust tubing that Ford uses, and the differentials had some surface rust, but overall it's in fairly new condition.

I don't know where this road leads, but knowing what you don't want isn't such a bad thing.

 

[Lil Foot]

On all those bells, whistles, gadgets & gizmos....

High end nav is nice, backup cameras are nice, tire pressure monitoring is nice.....
but mood lighting, 12 cup holders, automatically adjusted seats, mirrors, and radio stations, voice controlled everything, paddle shifters, half a dozen USB ports, self dimming lights & mirrors, are all a little over the top for me.

But the one feature I appreciate more and more as I get older is heated seats- really helps on those cold mornings or when the lower back or arthritis flares up.
Hey, I'm getting old....

 

[biketopia]

Heated and cooled seats are amazing, so is a heated steering wheel.

The staining on the headliner is probably as you suspected, an issue with the moon roof. Of all the fancy options, I would do my best to stay away from glass on my roof.

We use the 7.3 Godzilla in 32k GVW F-750 Crew trucks. They spend their life loaded to the gills. The cost of ownership, maintenance, and the ridiculous ease of everything to work on is a fantastic thing for a fleet. If you weren't smack dab in the middle of the mountains I'd petition hard for you to check out the gasser. The diesel will shine when pulling long hills, but that gasser does surprisingly well with the right gear out back and is much cheaper to operate and repair. If you find an F-350 DRW with the 7.3, or even an SRW, I would give one a drive, just for comparison...

They've gone through some small interior body updates, but these are pretty much what they are

Fairfax Water Company M&O Series - Swab Wagon Company

Deliveries - Fairfax Water Company M&O Series trucks have been delivered and are out ready to service the Fairfax Area! Learn More...

swabwagon.com

 

[McMXi]

On all those bells, whistles, gadgets & gizmos....

High end nav is nice, backup cameras are nice, tire pressure monitoring is nice.....
but mood lighting, 12 cup holders, automatically adjusted seats, mirrors, and radio stations, voice controlled everything, paddle shifters, half a dozen USB ports, self dimming lights & mirrors, are all a little over the top for me.

But the one feature I appreciate more and more as I get older is heated seats- really helps on those cold mornings or when the lower back or arthritis flares up.
Hey, I'm getting old....

I told the salesman, if I were ordering a truck I wouldn't choose the power moonroof. My '02 has heated seats and on long road trips I regularly use that feature.

I'm starting to back away from this new truck idea, or at least this F-450. So much money with so many bells and whistles that I couldn't care less about, and all serve to increase the likelihood of failure and added cost. I've started looking at Western Hauler type trucks again.

 

[McMXi]

Heated and cooled seats are amazing, so is a heated steering wheel.

The staining on the headliner is probably as you suspected, an issue with the moon roof. Of all the fancy options, I would do my best to stay away from glass on my roof.

We use the 7.3 Godzilla in 32k GVW F-750 Crew trucks. They spend their life loaded to the gills. The cost of ownership, maintenance, and the ridiculous ease of everything to work on is a fantastic thing for a fleet. If you weren't smack dab in the middle of the mountains I'd petition hard for you to check out the gasser. The diesel will shine when pulling long hills, but that gasser does surprisingly well with the right gear out back and is much cheaper to operate and repair. If you find an F-350 DRW with the 7.3, or even an SRW, I would give one a drive, just for comparison...

They've gone through some small interior body updates, but these are pretty much what they are

Fairfax Water Company M&O Series - Swab Wagon Company

Deliveries - Fairfax Water Company M&O Series trucks have been delivered and are out ready to service the Fairfax Area! Learn More...

swabwagon.com

I've had lots of vehicles over the years with a moonroof and never had an issue, but they were all the standard size. I've been doing some research and there are many reports of new F series trucks with leaking panoramic type moonroofs so I think it's a hard pass for me.

The local dealer does have another F-450 Lariat 4x4 with no moonroof but it's red and it has even more fluff in the form of the Lariat Ultimate Package which is a $5k option!

 

[Siesta Sundance]

1 vote, no moonroof!

 

[biketopia]

I've had lots of vehicles over the years with a moonroof and never had an issue, but they were all the standard size. I've been doing some research and there are many reports of new F series trucks with leaking panoramic type moonroofs so I think it's a hard pass for me.

The local dealer does have another F-450 Lariat 4x4 with no moonroof but it's red and it has even more fluff in the form of the Lariat Ultimate Package which is a $5k option!

I've had two or three with sunroofs too and only ever had one issue with backed-up drains. But yea the panoramic moon roof, is just a lot, unless I couldn't live without the rest of the truck, I'd keep looking. Even the XL's have a decent amount of options and start high...its wild what truck prices are now. My state contract price for 2025 F-450 4x4 crew cab XL with like no options is $65k.

 

[McMXi]

I've had two or three with sunroofs too and only ever had one issue with backed-up drains. But yea the panoramic moon roof, is just a lot, unless I couldn't live without the rest of the truck, I'd keep looking. Even the XL's have a decent amount of options and start high...its wild what truck prices are now. My state contract price for 2025 F-450 4x4 crew cab XL with like no options is $65k.

I was outside with my dog this morning and had a good chat with my closest neighbor. They have two F-350s and one F-450. All are 2022 and newer, and the F-450 was bought to solely serve as a snow plow and sander truck for their driveway! It's an XL model so all vinyl interior. I mentioned the two F-450s that I'm looking at and he raved about the 10-speed transmission. His wife's F-350 has the 6.7L H.O. engine and no moonroof and he has the standard 6.7L engine but with a moonroof. He told me that he's never opened the roof and thinks it's a waste of money. He and his wife own a building company and he has all manner of toys including a 25,000 lb toy hauler, camper, boat, etc. He also raved about the towing ability of the F-350s.

So I'm going back to the dealer tomorrow to take a look at the red F-450 to see if the color is a non-starter. It has around 17k miles on it, was bought in TX but registered in ID, one owner, and it's little more expensive due to the Lariat Ultimate Package and a bunch of other options such as spray in bedliner, safe/vault in center console, FX4 off-road package, 2kW Pro Power, retractable running boards, and more. This might just be another data point but it's important to gather as much data as possible before committing to buying anything.

 

[McMXi]

Even the XL's have a decent amount of options and start high...its wild what truck prices are now.

The white F-450 is definitely out of the running due to the moonroof, but as you say, given the equipment in an XL I would most likely be more than ok with that trim. That's why I was considering the F-550 dump truck from CA since I don't need the space of a crew cab in a work truck.

Honestly, I'm not crazy about all the bells and whistles in these new vehicles. I have a nice Alpine head unit and sound system that I installed in my '02 that interfaces with my Android phone, along with electric powered/heated seats and analog gauges and it's enough for me. What isn't enough is the 4-speed transmission, at least when towing 10,000 lb or more.

 

[Lil Foot]

My only experience with a power moon/sun roof was an after market one installed at the dealership when we bought our '99 LHS new. (already installed before we bought)
It had a lifetime guarantee, but only if you brought it to a particular sunroof company for lube/service, every 8 months, if I remember right.
They even put a date sticker reminder, like an oil change reminder.
We religiously had it serviced on schedule until we got real busy with caring for MIL & FIL, and missed a couple appointments.
The next time we tried it, it would only open partway, & then wouldn't close without help. (shove)
Took it in for repair, and they wanted $550 to fix it.
We declined, I pulled the fuse, and we never used it again.
Traded the car some time after that.

Had a manual one on a '95 Tacoma, no problems, but we seldom used it except when we carried the dog.
He loved it.

 

[McMXi]

Had a manual one on a '95 Tacoma, no problems, but we seldom used it except when we carried the dog.
He loved it.

I dated a woman for a few years who had a Doberman and a Jeep Grand Cherokee with a sun/moonroof. Her dog would sit in the passenger seat and poke his head out of the moonroof as she drove up the driveway. He (the dog) looked like he was driving a tank!

 

[biketopia]

I was outside with my dog this morning and had a good chat with my closest neighbor. They have two F-350s and one F-450. All are 2022 and newer, and the F-450 was bought to solely serve as a snow plow and sander truck for their driveway! It's an XL model so all vinyl interior. I mentioned the two F-450s that I'm looking at and he raved about the 10-speed transmission. His wife's F-350 has the 6.7L H.O. engine and no moonroof and he has the standard 6.7L engine but with a moonroof. He told me that he's never opened the roof and thinks it's a waste of money. He and his wife own a building company and he has all manner of toys including a 25,000 lb toy hauler, camper, boat, etc. He also raved about the towing ability of the F-350s.

So I'm going back to the dealer tomorrow to take a look at the red F-450 to see if the color is a non-starter. It has around 17k miles on it, was bought in TX but registered in ID, one owner, and it's little more expensive due to the Lariat Ultimate Package and a bunch of other options such as spray in bedliner, safe/vault in center console, FX4 off-road package, 2kW Pro Power, retractable running boards, and more. This might just be another data point but it's important to gather as much data as possible before committing to buying anything.

The 10 speeds are nice, keep the engine in the power curve. The XL interior is surprisingly comfy for what it is, and the XLT with the "ActiveX" material which is a combo of vinyl & cloth is nice for what it is too, especially in a utility-type truck setting where you're using your truck as a truck. A set of seat covers from Katskins and an afternoon of work can change an interior too. 2kW pro power is handy to run real 120v tools and appliances from the truck, it's about a $1,000 option. The power running boards are very durable, and I think they give a sleeker appearance and are less likely to hit a rock or something if you're on some off-camber stuff, but they add money and are always something that could go wrong.

 

[biketopia]

The white F-450 is definitely out of the running due to the moonroof, but as you say, given the equipment in an XL I would most likely be more than ok with that trim. That's why I was considering the F-550 dump truck from CA since I don't need the space of a crew cab in a work truck.

Honestly, I'm not crazy about all the bells and whistles in these new vehicles. I have a nice Alpine head unit and sound system that I installed in my '02 that interfaces with my Android phone, along with electric powered/heated seats and analog gauges and it's enough for me. What isn't enough is the 4-speed transmission, at least when towing 10,000 lb or more.

The Android auto in the new trucks is really slick.

 

[McMXi]

Thanks to everyone for all the input on this, and I can assure you it wasn't an exercise in futility. I put a deposit down on the red 2024 F-450 this morning after thoroughly inspecting it and after taking it for a short test drive. I was really pleased to see the almost new condition of the underside of the truck compared to the white F-450 from Canada that had clearly seen a fair amount of road salt.

I've put a lot of thought into a truck for towing over the past couple of years at least, and have gone over every post in this thread, and some multiple times. In addition, I've spoken with the owners of at least seven '22 and newer Super Duty 6.7L trucks. The F-450 makes a lot of sense for my intended use so thanks to everyone who suggested this model. I haven't owned a "new" vehicle for over 12 years, and this is probably the last vehicle, new or used, that I'll buy. It does come with an extended bumper to bumper warranty that starts once the factory 3 year/36,000 mile warranty expires in addition to an extended powertrain warranty since it's being sold under the used Ford Gold Certified program.

It's not my favorite color but it's nice enough, and maybe a few years down the road I'll have it sprayed Kubota orange! It has just about every feature I would add if ordering new with the possible exception of the included Lariat Ultimate package, which although nice is very expensive. This one has it and there's nothing to be done except enjoy the features.

It'll be a week before I take possession and months before I tow a 20,000 lb trailer. I'll be sure to report back once I have some towing related information to share.

 

[Bmyers]

Congrats on your new tow rig. Looking forward to seeing some pics of it.

 

[biketopia]

Great news! You will be very happy with it and thoroughly impressed with its ability. Let me know if can help you out with any other documents, order or towing guides, etc. Looking forward to seeing pictures of the new tow big humming down the road with the trailer in tow.

 

[McMXi]

Congrats on your new tow rig. Looking forward to seeing some pics of it.

Pictures or it didn't happen right?

@biketopia, thanks for emailing all those documents over earlier in the week.

Here's the red beast! I took the photo this morning and I will say that the metallic flake looks better in person. The first owner had the windows tinted, but also had an awful strip added across the top of the windshield. I'll be removing that for sure.

I asked the dealership if they'd "throw in" the Ford 2-5/16" gooseneck trailer hitch kit since the truck is set up with the factory gooseneck prep, but I'm not overly optimistic. I'll most likely order the B&W kit which is nicer anyway, and I'm a B&W fanboy. Another plus is that the conventional receiver on the truck is a 3" variant and I already have a B&W tow and stow 3" hitch that I bought for the M1078. A big appeal of this truck is that other than a gooseneck hitch kit, I don't need to buy anything else.

https://www.ford.com/product/hitch-kit-gooseneck-27500-lbs-gtwr-p2852522034

https://www.etrailer.com/Gooseneck-Hitch/Ford/F-450+Super+Duty/2024/BWGNXA2061.html?VehicleID=202466219

 

[Siesta Sundance]

Congrats McMXi

 

[RCW]

Not the direction you anticipated but sounds like you’ve done your due diligence as far as alternatives, etc.

Glad you found one you’re pleased with. Looks like a great truck

 

[Bmyers]

Pictures or it didn't happen right?

@biketopia, thanks for emailing all those documents over earlier in the week.

Here's the red beast! I took the photo this morning and I will say that the metallic flake looks better in person. The first owner had the windows tinted, but also had an awful strip added across the top of the windshield. I'll be removing that for sure.

I asked the dealership if they'd "throw in" the Ford 2-5/16" gooseneck trailer hitch kit since the truck is set up with the factory gooseneck prep, but I'm not overly optimistic. I'll most likely order the B&W kit which is nicer anyway, and I'm a B&W fanboy. Another plus is that the conventional receiver on the truck is a 3" variant and I already have a B&W tow and stow 3" hitch that I bought for the M1078. A big appeal of this truck is that other than a gooseneck hitch kit, I don't need to buy anything else.

https://www.ford.com/product/hitch-kit-gooseneck-27500-lbs-gtwr-p2852522034

https://www.etrailer.com/Gooseneck-Hitch/Ford/F-450+Super+Duty/2024/BWGNXA2061.html?VehicleID=202466219

View attachment 149333

That looks great! Your patience and research really paid off for you.

I will be looking forward to hearing how it does with the different towing projects you have planned for it. I know my nephew and BIL love their F450 and it makes towing look easy with it.