Working with fiberglass .... urghhh!

[mcmxi]

Sometimes you have to go backwards in order to go forwards. I've been trying to keep that front and center in my head this past week or so.

It's been decades since I worked with fiberglass, but about a week ago I started on another upgrade on my boat. For whatever reason, Robalo decided to recess the center section of the console dashboard (for want of a better word). This might be attractive to some but it limits the owner in terms of upgrading displays, gauges or other dash mounted electronics. I decided that I'd convert the console to a larger flat surface to offer more real estate for upgrades such as dual GPSMAP displays. This of course means that I'd need to fill the recessed center section.

Here's the console when I bought the boat.

The first step was to remove everything from the dash. I added a jack plate gauge and trim tab controller a while back, and those holes can be seen in the photo below. It was disappointing to see how little care was taken by Robalo when cutting the holes for the fuse panels/switches, guages, GPS and radio. The two holes I added were sized correctly and cut carefully with minimal clearance around whatever is installed. This is one of the problems with mass-produced, middle tier boats. There's little attention to detail, but I've never looked at a high-end boat so maybe it's not just the sub $100K market.

Step two was to grind off the gelcoat on both sides and bevel the holes on the backside to lock the layers on the front to the rear surface. The wood fillers are there in the photo taken from the front side because those holes don't need to be filled since new holes for a 10" GPSMAP and audio controller will eliminate them.

After partially filling in the holes that need to be filled from the backside, I began to add layers of CSM and Bi-axial mat on the front side to build up the center, and then added some layers across the entire console. The patchy appearance is due to my using an orbital sander to eliminate any surface imperfections that won't be easily fixed with fairing compound.

I'll use a colloidal filler/resin mix to fill up the holes from the backside then add a couple of layers of CFM. After that I'll apply layers of gel coat over the front and back sides once I'm happy with the flatness of both surfaces. The front surface is already flat enough but I'll be fine tuning it and might even add one more layer of CSM to improve the finish.

More to come.

 

[mcmxi]

In the spirit of full disclosure, I probably should have filled all the holes from the front side and then started to layer fiberglass mat and resin. Also, I'm not enjoying the process that much. Fiberglass is awful stuff, and once I'm done with this I hope that it's many years before I touch the stuff again.

 

[PHPaul]

Boat-building is big business here in Downeast Maine. There are a half-dozen shops within 20 miles of me, probably more if I took a census. Mostly building lobster boats, plus Hinckley over in Trenton/Bar Harbor builds yachts.

I worked briefly for one of the lobster boat guys, doing general maintenance around the plant. I HATED going to the layup shop, just the smell of that stuff aggravated me. I can't imagine dealing with the dust and fibers. You literally couldn't pay me enough.

 

[jaxs]

Oh, well,a-bless my soul,but what's wrong with me?
I'm itchin' like a man on a fuzzy tree.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Kinda curious as to why you didn't just cut out the old 'face' or 'front' surface and then bond a flat sheet of FG as the new surface ?

 

[mcmxi]

Kinda curious as to why you didn't just cut out the old 'face' or 'front' surface and then bond a flat sheet of FG as the new surface ?

That's a great question and I am by no means a fiberglass or boat building expert but rather a complete novice. However, I thought of a number of approaches including something like that but was concerned about reducing the integrity of the console. My first idea was to cut a 3/16" sheet of aluminum, weld on studs, get it powdered coated white and bolt it through the console but that didn't seem elegant. My concern re any cutting out of a large section was whether or not the console would change shape once some of the rigidity was reduced? Also, I don't know if the end result would be as good compared to leaving as much of the existing console in place and building on that. It's all academic at this point since I'm way down the road with no intention of turning back.

I got the five round holes filled flush with the rear surface using a mix of resin and fumed silica. Once I've filled the two rectangular holes I'll apply two layers of CSM and then gel coat. I'm not looking for a mirror-like surface on the backside of the console, just a clean and tidy, factory looking finish. The new holes that I need will span many of the existing holes so I wanted a structurally sound surface to cut into to mount the new electronics.

With the additional layers of CSM and bi-axial mat on both sides, this console should or could be stronger than it was from the factory. It's not a structural component but I don't want the console flexing while under way.

 

[mcmxi]

Boat-building is big business here in Downeast Maine. There are a half-dozen shops within 20 miles of me, probably more if I took a census. Mostly building lobster boats, plus Hinckley over in Trenton/Bar Harbor builds yachts.

I worked briefly for one of the lobster boat guys, doing general maintenance around the plant. I HATED going to the layup shop, just the smell of that stuff aggravated me. I can't imagine dealing with the dust and fibers. You literally couldn't pay me enough.

I lived in Sydney, Australia for a year in 1982 and worked for a boat yard for a few months. It was hard work but I remember enjoying it. I can't say that I learned anything in particular, but I do remember lots of grinding, filling and painting.

 

[mcmxi]

Here's what the new layout will look like, or at least the approximate location of each device. Having the engine gauges horizontally aligned will be a lot better than the old vertical alignment.

 

[mikester]

 

[Speed25]

Definitely not a fan of having to do fiberglass work, but if I have to, I'll always wear 3M's organic vapor cartridges in my mask. Completely gets rid of the smell of the fiberglass/resin.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

My hats off to you sir!

That looks like a 'big project" for sure, but it appears that you are doing a very fine job.

Just thinking about a project like this makes my skin itch.

Looking forward to seeing more.


How many hours do you estimate you will have into it?

 

[GreensvilleJay]

As you've found out filling all them holes is a royal pain and you'll need to be REAL careful when you cut for the new holes as you've got a 'mix' of materials to deal with. Easy to be pushing 'hard' through the thick plywood section then hit glas only...zippppppppp..oopsy..... slow, dead slow, 'no wake' slow and you'll be fine.

 

[jaxs]

Kinda curious as to why you didn't just cut out the old 'face' or 'front' surface and then bond a flat sheet of FG as the new surface ?

Well you should be curious because it's contagious don't you see? Ever heard "you are who you choose to hang out with"? How bout "lay with dogs and you're bound to get fleas"? Then there's " Be as careful of the books you read, as of the company you keep, for your habits and character will be as much influenced by the former as the latter."
I don't like assigning fault nor pointing fingers but there's one amongst us that always does things the hard way so it's bound to rub off. Their initials are RWS.

 

[mcmxi]

My hats off to you sir!

That looks like a 'big project" for sure, but it appears that you are doing a very fine job.

Just thinking about a project like this makes my skin itch.

Looking forward to seeing more.


How many hours do you estimate you will have into it?

Thanks! It's an ambitious project for a novice, but I'm reasonably good with my hands and know what a quality job looks like. It will be great when it's done, but it's certainly more involved than I expected.

I've been wearing a good 3M mask that is intended for fiberglass work such that you don't even smell the stuff. The biggest problem I've had is getting dust from sanding in my eyes, regardless of what kind of eye protection I'm wearing.

Fiberglass is one of those jobs where there's lots of waiting for things to cure so it's hard to say how much time I have in this. I'm getting close to the "easy" part which is brushing on layers of gel coat and sanding. I don't like doing a bad job, and don't like redoing stuff but I tell myself that it's ok if I have to change direction or go back a few steps. Despite @mikester and his very clever and original post, I'm in this for the long haul so want to do it right.

With that said, the resin and silica "putty" that I made up yesterday worked ok for some of the holes but was a disaster on others with shrinking and cracking. I started out the morning trying to grind out the cracks with the idea that I'd fill them with the same mixture. As with many fillers, if there's too much used and lots of heat generated the shrinkage can be excessive. I soon realized that it would be a fool's errand and I decided to grind out all of the filler and most of the original console since I now had a bunch of layers of mat and resin on the front side (more than 1/4" in the center) to provide rigidity and support. The white areas are the back of the front layers that I applied.

The two photos below show the backside of the console after I removed all of the material and after one layer of CSM. Tomorrow I plan on adding two layers of bi-axial mat and one final layer of CSM to the back, and one layer of CSM to the front.

It's going to take me weeks to get all of the dust out of the console and boat when I'm finally done!

 

[mcmxi]

As you've found out filling all them holes is a royal pain and you'll need to be REAL careful when you cut for the new holes as you've got a 'mix' of materials to deal with. Easy to be pushing 'hard' through the thick plywood section then hit glas only...zippppppppp..oopsy..... slow, dead slow, 'no wake' slow and you'll be fine.

The two plywood pieces are completely absorbed within a new larger hole so they'll be gone once I start cutting. With the change in direction today, I'll only be cutting through layers of fiberglass impregnated with resin, just like the hull that I had to drill through when installing three new transducers.

I bought one of those fancy Klein oscillating multi-took kits and will be using it for all of the rectangular holes. I have hole saws for the three gauges and Bennett trim tab controller.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Nice to hear you have a plan and thinking before doing !!
All too often, I see guys rush a job then end up with 3x or 4x the work as they 'oopsied' by NOT planning ahead.

query ? What are the two black 'posts' in the last picture ? Upper left and upper right ??

 

[Mitjam]

Thanks! It's an ambitious project for a novice, but I'm reasonably good with my hands and know what a quality job looks like. It will be great when it's done, but it's certainly more involved than I expected.

I've been wearing a good 3M mask that is intended for fiberglass work such that you don't even smell the stuff. The biggest problem I've had is getting dust from sanding in my eyes, regardless of what kind of eye protection I'm wearing.

Fiberglass is one of those jobs where there's lots of waiting for things to cure so it's hard to say how much time I have in this. I'm getting close to the "easy" part which is brushing on layers of gel coat and sanding. I don't like doing a bad job, and don't like redoing stuff but I tell myself that it's ok if I have to change direction or go back a few steps. Despite @mikester and his very clever and original post, I'm in this for the long haul so want to do it right.

With that said, the resin and silica "putty" that I made up yesterday worked ok for some of the holes but was a disaster on others with shrinking and cracking. I started out the morning trying to grind out the cracks with the idea that I'd fill them with the same mixture. As with many fillers, if there's too much used and lots of heat generated the shrinkage can be excessive. I soon realized that it would be a fool's errand and I decided to grind out all of the filler and most of the original console since I now had a bunch of layers of mat and resin on the front side (more than 1/4" in the center) to provide rigidity and support. The white areas are the back of the front layers that I applied.

The two photos below show the backside of the console after I removed all of the material and after one layer of CSM. Tomorrow I plan on adding two layers of bi-axial mat and one final layer of CSM to the back, and one layer of CSM to the front.

It's going to take me weeks to get all of the dust out of the console and boat when I'm finally done!


View attachment 135279

View attachment 135280

Mighty fine job sir and when your done I’ll bring my 18ft Larson to you to redo, I’ll even meet you at the Alberta/Montana border for your convenience.

 

[mcmxi]

Nice to hear you have a plan and thinking before doing !!
All too often, I see guys rush a job then end up with 3x or 4x the work as they 'oopsied' by NOT planning ahead.

query ? What are the two black 'posts' in the last picture ? Upper left and upper right ??

Those are drains for the two storage areas on top of the console. There are sections of tubing (I disconnected them) that route any water down to a drain system that ties into a number of catchment areas.

 

[mcmxi]

Mighty fine job sir and when your done I’ll bring my 18ft Larson to you to redo, I’ll even meet you at the Alberta/Montana border for your convenience.

You might want to wait for the final photos before you make a decision!

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Thanks ! I was thinking maybe holes for wires to go through..drains with tubes makes better sense !