Sidekick RTV-XG850 backfiring / loss of power

catalyst

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Equipment
BX80, RTV-XG850
Sep 30, 2018
70
29
18
St. Clair
If it is a design flaw / manufacturer defect, it should not matter if the machine was sold new or used.

I really dislike that Kubota is using that as a sticking point to try and force the dealers to extend hail Mary good will gestures. It is either a defect and design flaw, or it isn't. I consider an engine failure at 400 hours to be quite premature.

I will continue to post updates as we dig into the machine, but as I mentioned earlier - it is still pretty cold here. I don't really plan to dive into it until the weather warms up a bit. I really can't see us buying Kubota anything ever again unless they somehow come back to the table. Currently, our only recourse looks to be private legal action and notifying other customers of this potential issue.
 
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AndyM

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BX25DTLB
Sep 21, 2016
462
131
43
Vancouver Island Canada
It turns out I am considering one of these units. Having read this thread I kind of leaned towards a Polaris Ranger but I see my local Kubota dealer has a "deal" on a new 2022 Kubota RTV-X Series RTV-X900W Diesel. What say you folks? Light duty work (hey I am getting old) but I kind of like the way the BX25 consumes fuel.
 
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Mowbizz

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Bx25d
Aug 19, 2021
515
297
63
New Hampshire
It turns out I am considering one of these units. Having read this thread I kind of leaned towards a Polaris Ranger but I see my local Kubota dealer has a "deal" on a new 2022 Kubota RTV-X Series RTV-X900W Diesel. What say you folks? Light duty work (hey I am getting old) but I kind of like the way the BX25 consumes fuel.
Go for it! What kind of “deal” though? 🤣 I see a “lineup” of machines at my local dealer…haven’t stopped to see if what they are though.
 

Sidekick

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Equipment
Kioti CK2620SE cab, RTV-X, BX2360, Z726XKW-3-60
Jul 29, 2023
554
497
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N.Y,
It turns out I am considering one of these units. Having read this thread I kind of leaned towards a Polaris Ranger but I see my local Kubota dealer has a "deal" on a new 2022 Kubota RTV-X Series RTV-X900W Diesel. What say you folks? Light duty work (hey I am getting old) but I kind of like the way the BX25 consumes fuel.
Supposedly the new 54 hp ones are fixed. Here's a video of my swap to the new RTV-X2.
We call it slowpoke after the sidekick. The 900s are supposed to be dogs and hard to shift from what I have read. This RTV-X2 is slow and a little less stabile on tapered ground then the gasser but seems to turn in a tighter radius. It is soo smooth from the start and not jumpy taking off. I would not touch one of the old 46 hp sidekicks with a 10 ft pole.
 

AndyM

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Mowbizz - the "Deal" is still a question with me and it shows this has sat on the lot for a few years, so...

Sidekick - thanks for the advice - I will definitely make sure I know what the engine is about before pursuing it further (good info on the shifting as well - that could be an issue for "us")
 
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catalyst

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BX80, RTV-XG850
Sep 30, 2018
70
29
18
St. Clair
Mowbizz - the "Deal" is still a question with me and it shows this has sat on the lot for a few years, so...

Sidekick - thanks for the advice - I will definitely make sure I know what the engine is about before pursuing it further (good info on the shifting as well - that could be an issue for "us")
Sat for a couple of years? That is a pass for me.
 
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AndyM

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As it turns out, me too. Getting info on the unit turned out to be a challenge, and the sitting part left me uncomfortable as well. So Polaris it is - a little Ranger 570 arrives Thursday. Lugbolts recommendation and Magicmans push (Buy the Boat...) was all it took.
 
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Sidekick

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Kioti CK2620SE cab, RTV-X, BX2360, Z726XKW-3-60
Jul 29, 2023
554
497
63
N.Y,
As it turns out, me too. Getting info on the unit turned out to be a challenge, and the sitting part left me uncomfortable as well. So Polaris it is - a little Ranger 570 arrives Thursday. Lugbolts recommendation and Magicmans push (Buy the Boat...) was all it took.
Congratulations, I think you made the right choice. If I had known what I know now 3 years ago, I would have gone with a Polaris also. Enjoy it.
 

catalyst

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Equipment
BX80, RTV-XG850
Sep 30, 2018
70
29
18
St. Clair
As it turns out, me too. Getting info on the unit turned out to be a challenge, and the sitting part left me uncomfortable as well. So Polaris it is - a little Ranger 570 arrives Thursday. Lugbolts recommendation and Magicmans push (Buy the Boat...) was all it took.
I am glad a thread like this was able to help you make an informed purchase.
 
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AndyM

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Catalyst - quite right. I caught myself reflecting the same thing - a lot of very knowledgeable folks on this site and it's great they are so willing to share their expertise and experience.
DSC00763.JPG
 
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ANZAC

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RTV-XG850 Sidekick, GR2000
Nov 17, 2023
5
1
3
Ellensburg, WA
Any updates from anyone having similar issues with the failures?
My Sidekick seems to be doing a lot better. I replaced plugs, did the throttle pedal update (for older models) which also requires adjusting the TPS, ran the gas tank out and put fresh gas in.

So very rarely it will stumble, but usually clears up with a quick blip. WOT performance has become much more like I expected. Personally I think 99% of my issue was bad gas/water. Drivability is also great now.
 

Sidekick

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Equipment
Kioti CK2620SE cab, RTV-X, BX2360, Z726XKW-3-60
Jul 29, 2023
554
497
63
N.Y,
Any updates from anyone having similar issues with the failures?

@Sidekick how is the new RTV-X2 serving you?
The RTV X has been very reliable with no problems yet. It is very controllable at low speeds with no lurching . Goes forever on a tank of fuel. That said it is very slow. They advertised them at 25 mph and that may be possible if you're on blacktop going down a 5 mile long hill. Mine will hit between 19 and 20 going downhill. Not like the sidekick that would easily hit 40 and then the Rev limiter would kick in. Spoke to the dealer and was told that's how they all are. You can speed them up but that takes from low end torque and it's best to leave them at factory settings and over time it may speed up some. It is also terrible on hills. If you push the accelerator to speed up on my hill, it looses speed. You have to let off to maintain speed. Not like the Sidekick that never ran out of power. Also it can be a bear to shift from reverse to low. Have to play with the throttle, brake, and shifter at times to make the change. I am finding it is really no better then a tractor if you already have one where the Sidekick was more of a fun machine that went well with a tractor and sped things up.
Last I talked to my dealer about the sidekick, I heard they and Kubota did something to it that's supposed to solve the issue but can't test it until cold weather returns.
How did you make out with yours? I have gotten emails from some others with the problem off warranty that are still being blown off by dealers.
 
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FTG-05

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L4330 w/FEL, RTV-XG850 and ZD326S
Jul 21, 2013
282
115
43
TN
My Sidekick seems to be doing a lot better. I replaced plugs, did the throttle pedal update (for older models) which also requires adjusting the TPS, ran the gas tank out and put fresh gas in.

So very rarely it will stumble, but usually clears up with a quick blip. WOT performance has become much more like I expected. Personally I think 99% of my issue was bad gas/water. Drivability is also great now.
Where did you get the plugs? If not Messicks/Kubota, part numbers?
Thanks!
 

Tombstone Ranch

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Jul 24, 2024
4
2
3
Rocky Mountains
I signed up just to add to this thread, as this is one I followed when I had the same loss-of-power-issue.

I have a '21 850, witting around 1500 hours right now. I keep up on maintenance, although I'll have to admit I had been missing the pillow block bearing so good I was deep diving the issues.

I had no warning, buggy was running fine, but yesterday coming up the laneway, she lost all power. I could sit a moment, then it would go maybe 4 feet, then die. I could hear a hissing sound from the right side, I assumed that was the fuel cap.

Anyway, got it back to the garage, pulled off the air filters, coils and pulled the plugs. They had probably 500 hours on them, but they looked fine. Gapped and replaced them, cleaned out the boots and bolted everything back together. Air filters were new, but checked them anyway. No issue with inner or outer. Started it up, same thing, 4 feet, dead. Could rev the engine in neutral no problem, 3000-4000 RPM. But try and drive it, nope. I live in 99% pure dust, so I can't run these things without an air filter except in winter, or I would have tried that....

So I went and ran the numbers on some of the sensors, and THEY were all checking out. I pulled all of the breather hoses I could, just to check for obstructions, it just seemed like it was getting choked. Really looking, I saw that hard line that runs to the air filter box, coming in from the bottom. No real easy way to get that off there, so what the heck I stick a shop vac hose in there...

It sounds like it's fighting something, which isn't right for an air feed. I take a real good look at the air filter and there is a pink ring about the size of that air tube on the side of the outer filter, so I fashion a better seal on that tube and give er again with the vac. BOOMF. Just a mass of congealed packrat, a good sized one too. Had cemented itself just down the inlet so it wasn't visible at all. But there it was. Today I plan to follow that hard line and see where it gets air from, see if there isn't a way to screen that off as it's got to be pretty big to get a packrat in there (I absolutely hate packrats, that is the single most destructive animal we have here, and I'm in the deep deep woods). I will update when I get that figured out. Funny thing is I do recall catching the faint smell of "dead mouse" around the buggy but can't recall how long. I figured whatever it was would just dry itself out.

Sorry for the ramble, wanted to make the first post a doozy. :cool:


That said, for anyone looking at one of these...I read all the "deez are da crap, dey gots da subarus and dey all crap" posts, and look, EVERY buggy is going to have issues, we ride them hard, we work them hard. My experience (and I have NO affiliation to Kubota, I personally think their pricing is insane, but love their products) is this:
I have used this buggy to haul full loads of logs out of the forest, 15 full cords a year, and since I'm on a mountain, that's constant 10-30deg runs. I have a half mile laneway that has 7 switchbacks and a rise of 300'. We get up to 10' drifts of snow. I use the buggy with a plow on it to clear that driveway. I've pulled pickups and an old blazer around with it. I've gone mudding with it, I use the roof as a shooting rest. The thing has not had a single issue, nothing (well less packrat incursion). I DO keep up on all the maintenance, I DO use a bit of seafoam in the gas and in the crankcase (anyone who says it shouldn't be used in a crankcase quite literally doesn't know what they are talking about).

In fact, the only negative was the factory battery, it died in less than a year and the dealer didn't want to replace, but meh, I can live with that. Oh and the tires (in the pic) only lasted about 1000 hours, but again, ROUGH use. I ended up ordering those same ties, just upgraded the rims, because they worked on dust, mud and ice.

Anywhoo...hopefully this post is of help to anyone looking up the same issue, it does seem that inlet is a weak point, maybe I've lost a screen or something, that packrat was about a foot long. YES they are extremely flexible, but it shouldn't have been able to get in there.
 

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ANZAC

New member

Equipment
RTV-XG850 Sidekick, GR2000
Nov 17, 2023
5
1
3
Ellensburg, WA
so I fashion a better seal on that tube and give er again with the vac. BOOMF. Just a mass of congealed packrat, a good sized one too. Had cemented itself just down the inlet so it wasn't visible at all. But there it was. Today I plan to follow that hard line and see where it gets air from, see if there isn't a way to screen that off as it's got to be pretty big to get a packrat in there (I absolutely hate packrats, that is the single most destructive animal we have here, and I'm in the deep deep woods). I will update when I get that figured out. Funny thing is I do recall catching the faint smell of "dead mouse" around the buggy but can't recall how long. I figured whatever it was would just dry itself out.
We must live in the same kind of place - all dust and packrats! I am in a running battle with the packrats crapping and chewing on things.
 
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Tombstone Ranch

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Jul 24, 2024
4
2
3
Rocky Mountains
They did a number on both my pickup and on my wife's Bronco. Just destructive little b*stards.

I'm in the mountains, all the dirt is just eroded rocks, it's like moon dust, probably what you have too, gets into everything, so air filter maintenance and grease/lubrication routines are paramount.

Sucks too, the packrats are actually kind of cute, makes me feel a smidge bad when I take them out. I use 9mm "buckshot" rounds when they're around the house or in someplace sensitive, but I fine-pink-mist them with 12g birdshot if I get them out in the open.

I looked for one for weeks in my truck, turns out it was hiding inside the air filter box, under the filter. Would come out to feast on fuel injectors and p*ss all over the rad every night. I was going nuts trying to catch it. Exactly where this one was hiding it turns out.
 

lugbolt

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Equipment
ZG127S-54
Oct 15, 2015
5,207
1,893
113
Mid, South, USA
If it is a design flaw / manufacturer defect, it should not matter if the machine was sold new or used.

I really dislike that Kubota is using that as a sticking point to try and force the dealers to extend hail Mary good will gestures. It is either a defect and design flaw, or it isn't. I consider an engine failure at 400 hours to be quite premature.

I will continue to post updates as we dig into the machine, but as I mentioned earlier - it is still pretty cold here. I don't really plan to dive into it until the weather warms up a bit. I really can't see us buying Kubota anything ever again unless they somehow come back to the table. Currently, our only recourse looks to be private legal action and notifying other customers of this potential issue.
at 400 hours, that's a lot of usage. So at that kind of hours there comes many, many questions. Was it maintained properly? What kind of maintenance was done? Who did it? Is a failure normal wear, abnormal wear, neglect, abuse, or indeed a defect? The more hours that a unit has on it the more these are questionable items that hold more validity. Think about it this way. Say you're looking at used cars. You find one you want, but it's got 200,000 miles on it. What's that got to do with anything? At 200,000 miles there are a lot more questions than the one up the street that's got 20,000 miles, right?

and that's where the manufacturer's warranty department is. There are a lot of unknowns when they are processing warranty claims. Look at it this way, from their perspective. Some components are not built by Kubota, they are purchased (outsourced). If said component fails within the kubota warranty period, kubota warranty processors have to get paid by the people who make the part(s) which is just about as annoying to deal with as it is for us consumers to have to carry our stuff to the dealer to request warranty repairs. Say an outsourced part fails and kubota is the one administering the warranty on the unit. Kubota warranty processors have to ask (or tell) the manufacturer of the part that the part is defective-and they often have to PROVE the fact, via pictures or what have you, so that they can get paid. If y'all only knew how much money they lose on warranty repairs in a year, you might raise an eyebrow--or maybe not since a lot of folks just don't care, they only see "their" side of things.
 

Tombstone Ranch

New member
Jul 24, 2024
4
2
3
Rocky Mountains
Heh, I could get into the issues I had with FORD warranty and their super-fantastic "phasers" on their ecoboost engines...

It really seems like corporations have lost their way when it comes to consumers. Like John Deere embracing trans-movement and not allowing people to fix-for-themselves, Ford forcing EV machines on people, entertainment putting out complete garbage, the list goes on and on.

My next vehicle is going to be a solid chassis with a crate engine in it. No bells, no whistles, just a truck I know how to fix. I certainly am getting tired of being treated poorly by companies I'm handing over thousands and thousands of dollars.

Even the steering recall on the sidekick...kubota wouldn't just tell me what to look for on mine, HAD to be brought in, and they kept bugging me and kept bugging me. Went to the effort of getting it an hour away for them to look at it for 5 mins and say "it's good".