Dump Trailer remote issue

[GeoHorn]

I have a 10K Dump Trailer that has seen very little use.

It has the usual corded remote control to raise/lower the bed. That works just fine.

It also has a wireless remote that worked perfectly until very recent. It will Raise the bed fine… But when pressing DOWN…the pump-motor rus….but quickly makes a “squealing” sound …Exactly as-if the hyd-cylinder has reached has reached the end of it’s travel.

In other words… if I use the corded remote…everything works fine….pumps Up… Pumps Down. (Yes, it’s a powered-down unit). Using the corded remote…once the bed is fully down…a “squeal” is heard as the pump labors against the down-limited cylinder.

The wireless remote works perfect going UP…. but going back Down, the motor runs but immediately is making that squealing sound and NO Downward movement is made.… the bed has to be lowered using the corded control.

I’d love for someone to help me figure this out. It is as-if the remote does not trigger the down-solenoid-valve…. yet the corded remote does….

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Really need make/model info of the wireless unit.
It sounds like you have a 'power down' style system( there's at least 3 variations...)
My hunch is the wire from the remote receiver that powers the 'down' solenoid is open. The 'pump on' works, says the remote IS sending the 'down' signal.
Will need pictures or part numbers to help more.....

 

[mcmxi]

I have a 10K Dump Trailer that has seen very little use.

It has the usual corded remote control to raise/lower the bed. That works just fine.

It also has a wireless remote that worked perfectly until very recent. It will Raise the bed fine… But when pressing DOWN…the pump-motor rus….but quickly makes a “squealing” sound …Exactly as-if the hyd-cylinder has reached has reached the end of it’s travel.

In other words… if I use the corded remote…everything works fine….pumps Up… Pumps Down. (Yes, it’s a powered-down unit). Using the corded remote…once the bed is fully down…a “squeal” is heard as the pump labors against the down-limited cylinder.

The wireless remote works perfect going UP…. but going back Down, the motor runs but immediately is making that squealing sound and NO Downward movement is made.… the bed has to be lowered using the corded control.

I’d love for someone to help me figure this out. It is as-if the remote does not trigger the down-solenoid-valve…. yet the corded remote does….

I have wireless remotes on the hydraulic deck over and the bigger (16ft, 15k) dump trailer so am familiar with the system. I plan on adding a remote to the smaller dump trailer too.

So have you tried raising the bed half way with the remote or cord, then pressing the down button on the remote? I ask since I wonder if pressing the down button on the remote would actually raise the bed. The way you're describing it, it makes me wonder if the bed is always fully raised when you're having an issue with the down button on the remote. My thought is that if the bed is fully raised, and you press the down button, if that was trying to raise the bed, the pump would squeal.

 

[6feettogo]

It would be helpful if we know how the wireless remote was wired in. I added a wireless remote to my dump trailer but I had to add 2 diodes to the system so that the voltage would not feed both of the solenoids at the same time. It sounds like that is what is happening when you use the down button on the wireless remote.

 

[GeoHorn]

A week or so ago it was working fine… except I believe the battery was run-down…I had really worked the trailer hard for two days.

I had raised the bed fully with the remote (to shift the load aft)….then tried to lower the bed…but the motor did not run (apparently due to the low voltage)…but the solenoid opened and it gravity-down…and spit hyd fluid all over the inside of the box.

What a mess….but the remote and receiver did not get drenched….and when I got it home and replenished the fluid and charged the battery…..both remote and corded worked correctly.

It worked for a week…then this problem developed.

@mcmxi : I have raised the bed almost fully…to dump some dirt….then the remote would not lower…it would only spin the pump-motor and squeal. I had to lower it with the corded…. and I’ve not tried to raise it fully with the wireless since…. I”ve only raised it with the wireless a foot to see if it’ll lower it… and it doesn’t.

I’m puzzled because the remote was installed apparently using a custom-pre-mfr’d harness with nicely made threaded-connectors. The idea of a failed diode makes sense…. except there are no external diodes. I suppose there must be one on the receiver’s PC-board… I guess that would entail complete replacment.

(This is a Load-Trail 10K trailer… I believe identical to the PJ trailers…. I’ve been told the two companies are brothers who don’t like working with each other.…making trailers of the same design they’d started-out with.)

 

[6feettogo]

Here is a jpeg file for my wiring diagram.

 

[GeoHorn]

Thanks for the diagram…. I’ll go out to look at that right-away.

Edit: I don’t see how a failed diode would not affect Both corded And wireless …. the corded works perfectly normal.

 

[Dustball]

I'm guessing the electrical components involved (relays/solenoids/etc...) for raising the bed are the same part numbers for lowering the bed. How I would approach this is start swapping like for like until I find the one component that the issue follows.

 

[mcmxi]

@mcmxi : I have raised the bed almost fully…to dump some dirt….then the remote would not lower…it would only spin the pump-motor and squeal. I had to lower it with the corded…. and I’ve not tried to raise it fully with the wireless since…. I”ve only raised it with the wireless a foot to see if it’ll lower it… and it doesn’t.

I’m puzzled because the remote was installed apparently using a custom-pre-mfr’d harness with nicely made threaded-connectors. The idea of a failed diode makes sense…. except there are no external diodes. I suppose there must be one on the receiver’s PC-board… I guess that would entail complete replacment.

(This is a Load-Trail 10K trailer… I believe identical to the PJ trailers…. I’ve been told the two companies are brothers who don’t like working with each other.…making trailers of the same design they’d started-out with.)

It does sound like you might have a bad PC board. One of the advantages of having duplicate systems is that parts can be swapped around to help with troubleshooting. One thing you could try is to relearn the remote. There's a process to have the processor in the control unit learn the remote. Since nothing has changed since it was working, either a component has failed, or something has gone wrong with communication between the remote and the control unit.

 

[GeoHorn]

The dealer I bought this from (new) is a 160 mile round-trip… and it’s out of warranty.

The pump failed almost at the end of the warranty and they replaced the hyd-unit completely.

The trailer is not used extensively…. it sits for 11 months…then I use it for a day or so.

I did have to replace the Interstate battery a couple months ago when I realized that was why it wouldn’t lift a load of dirt. A new WM Marine deepcycle battery fixed that just fine. I’m thinking that’s unrelated to the current issue.

I may resort to buying an aftermarket remote and change this one out completely.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

remote is probably fine as it sends 'up' command fine and sends 'down' command.
the receiver is working for 'up', as it issues command to power pump and 'up' solenoid
It also issues command to power pump for 'down', but NOT to power the 'down' solenoid.

best guess is a broken wire from receiver 'down' terminal to 'down' solenoid.

 

[6feettogo]

Another thing to try is to see if there is voltage going to both the up and down solenoid at the same time when you hear the problem.

 

[wp6529]

My suspicion would be burned contacts on the relay in the receiver for the down output. If they are higher resistance the reduced voltage they are passing may be enough to activate the pump motor contactor but not the down solenoid.

A simple test would be to swap the up and down wires from the receiver and test if you then have the problem going up (with the down button). The relay in the receiver could be replaced if you are handy with a soldering iron, otherwise you probably need a new receiver.

I have a PJ dump trailer and I had the same (KTI?) wireless remote on it, however I didn't use the wireless much and removed it as it drained the battery while the trailer was not being used for long periods.

Load Trail and PJ are in Sumner, TX not far from me and they are across the street from each other. I might note that when there was an Immigration raid 5 or 6 years ago, Load Trail lost a lot of folks, while PJ lost one or two. I'd rather do business with PJ who tries to ensure they only hire those legally here and allowed to work. The usual welders wanted type sign in front of PJ has the eVerify logo pretty prominently displayed showing that they do try to keep their hiring legal. No such sign at Load Trail, just sign on bonus info.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

Still no information about which 'wireless remote' is in the trailer........
..makes it impossible to know IF you CAN swap 'up' for 'down'.....

Hard to believe anyone is using relays these days. Simpler,cheaper, better to use MOSFETs.

 

[wp6529]

Still no information about which 'wireless remote' is in the trailer........
..makes it impossible to know IF you CAN swap 'up' for 'down'.....

Hard to believe anyone is using relays these days. Simpler,cheaper, better to use MOSFETs.

The KTI wireless remote receiver I have which is likely the same as the OP has definitely contains three relays. I haven't confirmed the wiring, probably one is enable and the other two up and down, or perhaps one is not used in this application.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

One for motor power
One for up solenoid
One for down solenoid
wow , that's mighty dirty and corroded !

 

[wp6529]

One for motor power
One for up solenoid
One for down solenoid
wow , that's mighty dirty and corroded !

Checked and that is correct. Yes, the battery/pump/storage box at the front of the trailer isn't the most pristine environment.

When the battery gets low and the pump and stuff starts to chatter, stop, that is when most of the relay contact damage will be done.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

The controller should stop working when battery gets too low. Takes all of 4-7 lines of code to do that.
Had a look at that PCB again and reverse engineered it. Two possible ways the relays are configured, one way requires a 'form c' relay, other way you could use a 'form a' relay , cheaper, or just a FET,even cheaper.

 

[wp6529]

The controller should stop working when battery gets too low. Takes all of 4-7 lines of code to do that.
Had a look at that PCB again and reverse engineered it. Two possible ways the relays are configured, one way requires a 'form c' relay, other way you could use a 'form a' relay , cheaper, or just a FET,even cheaper.

While you're making a new an improved version be sure to properly automotive harden it with an appropriate IP rating and surge suppression. Longer RF range would help also, at the back of a crew cab long bed the RF range of the KTI unit is sometimes marginal.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

'auto-harden' is easy. My remotes are good for 6-28VDC, reverse polarity protected,EMI proof,hackerproof data transfer..well unless you know trinary
They won't work over 20' range ?? Dang, that's really,really 'silly'. I get 1/2 mile no problem.