A little help with my "new" B7100DT

[Rob]

top section with some extra lighting, nothing special but it does the job well, and if they get broken , they are cheap and easy to buy and replace.

rob

 

[seanbarr]

Rob - I definitely needed that "stock" image of the rear end. I've got a welded plate sitting across the top and over one side. Looks easy to remove so it's gonna get removed. Big help!

Lil Foot - Is your ROP supplied by Kubota? I'm confused as to which is the actual Kubota item. I thought it was like a generic, one piece rectangular roll tube similar to this found on CL.

In any case, I'm inclined to go ahead and ask the dealer to get one and see if they will let me install it myself to save a few bucks.


Onto the hydralics,...

If you look at the controller, the top right cluster of hoses goes to the cylinders in the right places. Other than those, there's three hoses going to the controller. The very bottom is connected to the pump output directly. The other two is what puzzles me,... they run to this "cluster fitting" which I think was done incorrectly... I'll do my best to explain

I drew an illustration of the current setup. Please do note the tractor's hydralics which looks to be at one point was hooked up to the FEL and was later revised to use the external pump, thus the loop closing it back up.

Something tells me that the two outputs from the controller should be joined together and flow back into that "capped" tube on the reservoir and the low pressure hose be connected only between the lower reservoir and the pump?

The "loop" (far right) closing back up the tractor's hydralics...

As for the engine, are those tiny "spark plugs" the glow plugs? How do you check & remove them?

I also am embarrassed to say, the "glow plug" light wasn't the glow plug indicator, it was the oil light, my bad. The actual glow plug indicator consisted of just a hole with what I can see the coil inside. I am assuming that the lens is missing from that? I activated the glow plugs by turning the key left and it never came on... that's going to be looked at and I do have the wiring schematics for the electrical system to refer to.

 

[Big Kahuna]

Welcome and good deal!
Take a look at my post last year for 219 rebuild, I have pictures posted and it will help you out with the plumbing which is WRONG ?
as for the glow plug indicator, it slowly changes to orange when preheating, might take a minute or 2, and no cover over the hole, it depends on your battery how fast you heat and outside temp, also check your fuses.

Big Kahuna

 

[Russell King]

Welcome. Yes those small items behind the manifold are the glow plugs in you picture.

From your diagram it looks like the hydraulics return lines go directly back to the pump and do not dump into the reservoir. It would work (I think) but seems like it would overwork a small amount of fluid and never get filtered. It would only take up any lost fluid from the reservoir. The two lines that go from the valve to the pump "cluster fitting" should go back to the reservoir and the pump would then pull all its fluid from the reservoir. Not sure how you would get two returns to the reservoir and you would need to plug the two points on the "cluster fitting.

For the ROPS I believe the Rob BLUE pictures are the OLD original and the DARK GRAY is the NEW style that you will get from the dealer. Usually the dealer installation is nearly zero cost on the safety program if you can get the tractor there. It is not a lot of fun to do by yourself but can be done. Verify that the dealer installis it correctly before you leave - ask for a copy of the instructions when you leave your tractor. There have been some statements here that they are not 100% on the installation of these.

 

[Russell King]

Here is the link to Big Kahunas post about his loader - I had a bit of trouble finding it since "219 rebuild" did not really work in the website search

http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7795

 

[Lil Foot]

OK, let's try to cover all this....
On the ROPS- They both appear to be Kubota, Rob's is '70-'80s vintage, mine is the current issue from Kubota. See post #3:
http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5328

Glow plug indicator has no lens, mine glows after ~15 seconds or more, but is hard to see in bright light, if I shade it with my hand or start it in the unlit garage, I can see it.

The spark plug looking things are the glow plugs, but I've never had to pull one. sorry.

On the hydraulics, I think Russell King's assessment is pretty close. I would suspect that where your hand drawn diagram shows the two lines both connected to the low pressure line, one of those lines may be a "power beyond" port (to power a grapple or other device) usually marked "byd", that should be capped. The other line ( hopefully marked "out") should be the return to the tank, and the suction line should have no other connections. If those two ports on the control valve are not marked, maybe the valve manufacturer can help.
Sounds like someone bought the wrong valve for this application, or maybe used what they had on hand.

The B219 was never intended to run off the internal pump- the front mounted external pump was the intended way, although yours may or may not be the original Cessna pump.

Here are a couple of pics of the Cessna/Eaton valve that should be on the B219.
I'm waiting for a seal kit for mine right now.....

 

[seanbarr]

Looks like I've got some work for me to do...

Glow plugs don't light up at all. I got no indicator, no current, etc. Seems like the wiring's the first place to go then check the glow plugs (If I know how to take them off, anyone?)

The hydraulics,... Lil Foot, you gave me a pretty good understanding, thank you! I'm going to see if I can identify the make, or at least discover which hose is the return and which is the bypass. I'm definitely am going to re-plumb the setup and take a look at the strainer / filter at the base. The theory completely makes sense as you'd want the fluid to constantly be refreshed & filtered.

ROPS, guess it really doesn't make much of a difference as to whether it folds or not. It's going into my soon-to-be-completed shop with 14" doors.

Big Kahuna, A-maz-ing! I saw how the return fluid was hooked up and it just makes sense! Again, amazing how it turned out. Your tractor was in far worse shape that mine and yet you did you magic on it! If your pictures are current, we both will need new buckets...

Hopefully when I'm back in the next few days, I'll have some progress to report. Thanks fellas!

 

[seanbarr]

Forgot to add a picture of the tractor. This was taken off Craigslist when I first saw the posting... cruel isn't it???

 

[Stumpy]

Nahhh I bet if you stuck a fresh battery in there, hit the glow plugs for 30s, and put it in 4wd it'd blast right out of that snow drift!

 

[B7100]

Your over site in mistaking the oil light for glow plug is understandable in new owners and should not cause embarrassment as every one has to learn,it does however highlight that any work ought to be delayed until owners/WSM is to hand .Both of these for your model are available and free on the net

BTW,the glowplugs will not work if the indicator coil has blown as its in series with the plugs themselves..unless previous owner has bypassed coil by piggy backing both wires to one terminal on the ignition switch.

The reservoir, the way you Fel is plumbed looks no more than a buffer for leaks/ heat expansion so unless overfilled , pipes mixed up/not capped, as Lil Foot says, on the valve I can see no reason for any blow out at the breather or the need for another return to the tank unless there is some form of filtration employed in it.



Dave

 

[Lil Foot]

Forgot to add a picture of the tractor. This was taken off Craigslist when I first saw the posting... cruel isn't it???

Sacrilege! Especially the uncapped exhaust stack- should at least drop an old tin can over it!
If everything was up to snuff, it probably would walk right out of there....

 

[seanbarr]

Here's an update!

Got my brand new shop manual from eBay. It had the original wrapping!

I worked with the hydraulics today by taking the strainer out from the bottom. There were gunk which the strainer was half buried in! I scooped out as much as I could with a plastic spoon, stuck my finger in it to try to dredge out the rest. I spent a whole half hour JUST to get as much out as possible!. Moving on, I cleaned the strainer to as-new condition, reworked the hoses so there's only a 3/4" suction hose (new) between the reservoir and the pump. The two questionable hoses were still together, only now it's dumping into that 1/2" pipe that was previously capped, also with a new hose. I'm pretty happy how it turned out. I'm still minus one of the bucket piston that was sent for service so I was careful working with it. It's due back this week so hopefully I'll get to pick it up Friday. No fluids flowing out of the breather on top so big plus!

After working the cylinders at least 5-6 times between fully compressed & extended, I tried to push down the bucket so I could lift the front end. While it did lift the front, it didn't hold so it tells me that the controls are in bad shape. I'm going to have to replace it. The hunt begins for the correct controller, perhaps something with a float valve? Northern tool supposedly have some to choose from unless someone wants to chime in?

I just know that the FEL's gonna be the bomb once I get this last piece of the puzzle solved!

Moving on,...

No glow plugs until Friday. Man, c'mon!

I also noticed a significant play in the steering box, guess I'll have to get my hands dirty on this. I now can work on the tractor inside my shop since the snow's cleared from there to the driveway! (Yes, I used the tractor!)

I should have more updates on Friday / Saturday!

 

[Lil Foot]

I have bought hoses from Northern Tool, but then I found Surplus Center- cheaper, more knowledgeable, better selection:
http://www.surpluscenter.com
Here's the result of a search for "two spool"
http://www.surpluscenter.com/sort.asp?catname=&byKeyword=yes&search=2 spool
Not sure which one would be suitable, but the original was a Cessna/Eaton 30922-30C, maybe Surplus center can recommend something.
(Cessna Hydraulics now owned by Eaton)

 

[pmhowe]

" While it did lift the front, it didn't hold so it tells me that the controls are in bad shape. I'm going to have to replace it."

Can't the controller be rebuilt? Possibly new O-rings?

 

[seanbarr]

I could but the controller is quite loose with lots of free-play. I figured that by the time I get it all repaired & up to snuff, I could have simply bought a new one.

 

[Profnohair]

I could but the controller is quite loose with lots of free-play. I figured that by the time I get it all repaired & up to snuff, I could have simply bought a new one.

If I were you I would dig into the original one before buying a new one. O-rings are dirt cheap and what would it hurt to try? It may very well be only o-rings that tighten up the controler.

 

[Stumpy]

I'm always a fan of fix over replace but that does need to be weighed again cost and time. That said loader valves aren't cheap so it's probably worth taking it apart at least to look at what's shot. What's loose? Is it the spool that's loose or just the pin connecting your levers to the spool? Those are usually hardened such that the pin is the part that wears, not the spool.

 

[seanbarr]

That I've taken into consideration about fixing vs replacing. Heck, I get a kick out of fixing things but with this controller, I just believe that it isn't worth it because the slop is just from the pins and the elongated holes. One of the pins was even tack welded onto the side.

$250 is a fair deal for a replacement, especially it would have the bucket regen rapid tip and the boom float option, which should be quite handy as the old one just doesn't have either.

Now my next thing, I've done a search for a replacement bucket, preferably 44" to 48" max wide but found no such thing anywhere. I'm considering calling up coldwater tractors and ask about getting just a bucket to replace the one with this beat-up bucket showing daylight at the bottom. Think that's my best option?

Tomorrow, I get my glow plugs and the repaired bucket cylinder!

 

[Apogee]

Hi Sean,

Congrats on your new toy!

If you decide to sell your wheel weights, let me know... ;-)

A couple of things:

1) When you have time, you should pull the front mounted hydraulic pump that runs the loader and grease the spines. They tend to get neglected and will eventually wear the splines out. The later front pto drives had zerk fitting for greasing, but the early ones did not.

2) As you troubleshoot your glow plug issues, I would strongly recommend starting with the key switch. The key switches tend to not do well when left outside and I've had to change several of them. My gut tells me that you will find this to be the source of your non-working glow plug issue. $25 for a new one from Kubota. Do yourself a favor and order the right one rather than attempting to jury-rig in a "universal" one from an autoparts store.

When working properly, the glow indicator takes awhile to glow. At least 15 seconds like mentioned previously. It will be pretty dim, and like other have mentioned, will be difficult to see in bright light. It's just a coil of resistance wire that drops the voltage to the glow plugs so 12v doesn't burn them out. Don't expect it to glow like a bright light because it doesn't work that way. I would also check it to make sure it passes current because, since these are exposed to weather through the little hole, they can corrode.

Regarding glow plug testing, if you remove the straps (wire) on the end of the glow plugs that ties them together, you should get a reading of several ohms when measured between the block and tip of the glow plug. If you get zero or a direct short, you have a bad glow plug. Please note, you have to remove the strap that ties them together in order to get an accurate reading for each one.

3) If you don't already know, Kubota Vic on this site sells parts, is super helpful, and supports this forum. He's awesome! Messick's online store also has good prices and are also a great outfit. Finally, your local Kubota dealer can get just about anything for you typically in about a week but they are typically more expensive.

4) You might consider taking your bucket to your local welder in town. I'm guessing for a reasonable amount of money he will fix it up for you and save you the hassle and cost of trying to find a replacement.

5) As has been stated previously DON'T use ether on these motors! The pistons crack. You will be rebuilding and you'll be bummed because the parts should be gold plated based on the prices.

6) I'd also try rebuilding your control. What have you got to lose? If you screw it up, you just replace it anyway. I have an original 219 with the dual controls. A single stick control would be nice to have...

7) You might look into the new LED lighting for your work lights as they draw a lot less current. There is a thread under the customization area from one of the members who put them on his rig. Really nice!

8) Very smart move ordering the ROPS!

Again, congrats on your tractor. You scored!!!!

Kind regards,

Steve

 

[seanbarr]

Well good news,

I got the glow plugs, installed them and boy do they work like a crazy foal just fresh out of his mama's womb! After pre-warming it up for 60 seconds (it was a tad under freezing this morning) I started it up, it chugs along and remembering someone's advice, turned the key back to glow to help things along. A few tries later, she caught on and chugged until she idled nicely. Just a matter of getting the right feel with the right throttle lever position somewhere halfway but I may have to experiment. Do you leave it wide open, halfway, or what?

...and yes, I now understand about the coil inside the indicator. Completely get it. It glowed after 10 seconds. Beautiful sight to see!

...and the bad...

The bucket cylinder that I previously took to town, it's just badly scratched and had a nice dent on the rod. They wanted $250 just to rebuild it (after I cringed at their original $325) Because I plan to replace the bucket, which I "could" alter the specs to accommodate the common sized cylinders (pics below) I paid my $37 minimum break-down charge and left, deciding to try another place for a second opinion while I mull on my options. I walked into another place where a very friendly pretty lady greeted me at the front desk. I asked about having someone offer a second opinion with the disassembled parts I brought with me in a box. She dug in like nobody's business getting her hands greasy while looking it over and started looking up some websites where I could get replacements since they only rebuild & service, not sell. She advised that yes, it's probably better to get a replacement than rebuild, provided that I find the right cylinder. After chatting a while, I learned that she's there by herself, working on a massive tracked dump truck in the bay. This 110 lbs pretty girl working on hydraulics. I've half a mind to introduce my 11 year old daughter and her two younger brothers to show that nothing's impossible!

Anyway, Baileysnet.com and Internationalhydralics.com were the two sites she suggested that I look. I'm still working on my options. Oh I should add, this morning after moving it around, I noticed that my loader cylinders (longer ones) no longer works and the fuel's leaking from the pump. (sigh) I'm gonna park it out of the way and take all the rest of the cylinders in to get them looked at and tear apart the pump to find the source of the leak.

Oh and the bucket? It's 39" wide. The wheels are 44" wide.

There's that 2 foot crack, smack in the middle.

A little more light showing through.

It's getting discouraging pretty quick and could use some moral boosting today...