My heart goes out

[bosshogg]

I agree with all of the above... There's 2 things I'd like to see though;

1. Gun show loopholes sewn shut, by federal mandate... Full background checks for any and all prospective firearm owners, including comprehensive mental health checks... FBI and/or ATF should be able to over ride HIPPA laws, see reports and make a determination as to wether or not the firearm is sold to the individual.

2. Ten day waiting period to receive any purchased firearm. Period. If you absolutely must walk out of a store with gun in hand, there's something wrong with that picture..

Taking away guns isn't the way to go, and that Genie is so far out of the bottle it ain't ever going back in... Better parenting and keeping weapons secured would go a long way too..

There are no "Gunshow Loopholes". The exact same ATF forms and FBI background checks occur whenever a licensed firearm dealer (FFL) sells a weapon whether that be at a fixed store or gun show. What they are confusing this with is private individuals selling guns between each other which is currently legal without any forms or background checks.

 

[hodge]

There are no "Gunshow Loopholes". The exact same ATF forms and FBI background checks occur whenever a licensed firearm dealer (FFL) sells a weapon whether that be at a fixed store or gun show. What they are confusing this with is private individuals selling guns between each other which is currently legal without any forms or background checks.

That is correct. I bought my pistol at a gun show, and I had to produce two forms of identification, and had to wait for approval. No different than if I bought it at a gun shop.

 

[PRF]

There are no "Gunshow Loopholes". The exact same ATF forms and FBI background checks occur whenever a licensed firearm dealer (FFL) sells a weapon whether that be at a fixed store or gun show. What they are confusing this with is private individuals selling guns between each other which is currently legal without any forms or background checks.

That is correct. I bought my pistol at a gun show, and I had to produce two forms of identification, and had to wait for approval. No different than if I bought it at a gun shop.

Won't argue the point, but my best friend recently moved to NC, and when I visited him this past Summer we went to a few big flea market type deals where there were several dealers set up.. Could have walked away with any long gun they had there.. Maybe they weren't licensed dealers in the first place? Not sure

 

[hodge]

Won't argue the point, but my best friend recently moved to NC, and when I visited him this past Summer we went to a few big flea market type deals where there were several dealers set up.. Could have walked away with any long gun they had there.. Maybe they weren't licensed dealers in the first place? Not sure

Because it was a flea market, I doubt that they were licensed dealers. That probably works just like selling firearms through a news paper or bulletin board. It is legal, but not regulated.

 

[lsmurphy]

Face to face sales of any legal firearm is perfectly legal in every state.

One can direct ship a long arm within a state.......legal.

One can ship a long arm USPS to any FFL in any state.

One can overnight any hand gun to any FFL in any state.

 

[lsmurphy]

BTW, one can build from scratch or kit ANY legal firearm. One can build AOW or SBR with tax stamp. I have built 11 AKMs.....known as AK47s from parts.

One can own select-fire or Full Auto with tax stamp.

Silenced rifles and hand guns are legal with tax stamp. Yes silencers are legal.

One can build ANY muzzle loader........this includes CANNONS.....yep you bet.

Cannons and other muzzle loaders are UNREGULATED and perfectly legal.

50cal is the largest rifle caliber available to civis.








Real men at play-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAeYi9rjjik



Brit Sniper Makes Double-Kill at 1.54 miles with .338 Lapua Mag
http://www.fishingbuddy.com/new_longest_kill_shot_by_sniper


Above is the longest confirmed kill.............bolt rifle.........yep those evil bolt rifles you 'hunters use'.

Bolts and levers are next on the list of confinscation.
Better watch what you wish for boys.

 

[dmanlyr]

There’s a reasonable argument that the Second Amendment confers an individual right — to bear a musket. Beyond that, it’s more complicated. Every reasonable hunter and gun owner agrees on a ban on fully automatic machine guns. The question isn’t whether to limit the right to bear arms, but where to draw the line.


.......................................................................................................

It may be your opinion that all reasonable gun owners would not like to have a full auto weapon/gun.

But I would like the option to buy one, even if I do not currently own any of types of SEMI automatic long rifles that we are disscussing. and I do consider myself reasonable. I have never been arrested, and have been fully vetted by our government against my will by having to obtain a TWIC card for my proffesion.

So your idea of reasonable stops at full auto weapons, others opinion of reasonable stops at muskets or perhaps no hand guns, or any other "classification" as determined by that paticulars opinion of "reasonable"

The point is this - don't think full auto is resonable, then don't get one, but let other there freedom to choose there own reasonable limits.

I need to make sure that you and everyone else is aware that many states do NOT allow full auto weapons in any form. My home state of Washington is one of those that has imposed others opinions on all its citizens, for no reasonable reason.

I am also a motorcycle rider - I live in a state that requires helmets which I totally disagree with. Am I anti helmet then? Absolutly not, I own three helmets, a skull cap, a 3/4 and a full face as well as cut off jeans to armored riding jackets. I, and I alone consider what is reasonable for riding gear for that day depending upon which motorcycle, weather conditions, expected speeds and so on. Would I like the option as well to wear NO helmet, a great big YES.

I other words, let ME decide in my free life to choose my path, as it is my path. so long as my choices are not hurting any other one. Let me use my God given brains to choose, not some nameless government employee or even my next door neibhor.

David

 

[Lil Foot]

I other words, let ME decide in my free life to choose my path, as it is my path. so long as my choices are not hurting any other one. Let me use my God given brains to choose, not some nameless government employee or even my next door neibhor.

Well said, this is the most cogent statement of this thread.

 

[Kubota Newbie]

It's a terrible thing that happened in that school building. Just awful.
That being said, there always have been, and always will be (at least untill the end time) bad people who do terribly bad things. There is little, if anything, that we can do to stop that.
It occurs to me that we spend a lot of effort in this country trying to legislate against stupidity and immoral behavior all the while arguing that basic moral standards and Christian principles such as one finds in the Bible have no place in our government institutions and/or schools. The result is a continual degredation of our scociety as a reliance on "laws" comes to out-weigh moral behavior. It will only get worse untill we recognize that what we've developed is a problem within our scociety and not a lack of "laws". It is afterall, already against the law to commit murder. But that did not stop it from happening in this case or countles others every year. Yes, this seems especially tragic because of who the victims were. Another law won't bring those souls back to life, or the 3,000 that were murdered with two jet airliners in New York, or stabbing victims or......
I guess if you don't go to a Christian church, I would encourage you to at least try it. It'll be the foundation for the only real way to overcome what we've become. If nothing else, you can at least get a good nap every Sunday morning.

 

[Dennis T.]

In many states the Ku Klux Klan was sued when hate crimes were perpetuated against blacks. This almost bankrupted the KKK. When we have mass shootings with assault weapons, why don’t we sue the NRA or assault weapon manufacturers? Bankrupting these purveyors of death and destruction would be poetic justice.





................The Democrats current gun-ban-list proposal ...................

Rifles (or copies or duplicates):

M1 Carbine

Sturm Ruger Mini-14

AR-15

Bushmaster XM15

Armalite M15

AR-10

Thompson 1927

Thompson M1

AK

AKM

AKS

AK-47

AK-74

ARM

MAK90

NHM 90

NHM 91

SA 85

SA 93

VEPR

Olympic Arms PCR

AR70

Calico Liberty

Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle or DragunovSVU

Fabrique National FN/FAL

FN/LAR, or FNC

Hi-Point20Carbine

HK-91, HK-93

HK-94

HK-PSG-1

Thompson 1927 Commando

Kel-Tec Sub Rifle

Saiga

SAR-8

SAR-4800

SKS with detachable magazine

SLG 95

SLR 95 or 96

Steyr AU

Tavor

Uzi

Galil and Uzi Sporter

Galil Sporter or Galil Sniper Rifle (Galatz)







Pistols (or copies or duplicates):

Calico M-110

MAC-10

MAC-11

MPA3

Olympic Arms OA

TEC-9,

TEC-DC9,

TEC-22 Scorpion or AB-10

Uzi

Shotguns (or copies or duplicates):

Armscor 30 BG

SPAS 12 or LAW 12

Striker 12

Streetsweeper






Catch-all category (for anything missed or new designs):

A semiautomatic rifle that accepts a detachable magazine and has:

(i) a folding or telescoping stock,

(ii) a threaded barrel,

(iii) a pistol grip (which includes ANYTHING that can serve as a grip, see below),

(iv) a forward grip; or a barrel shroud.

Any semiautomatic rifle with a fixed magazine that can accept more than

10 rounds (except tubular magazine .22 rim fire rifles).

A semiautomatic pistol that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine, and has:

(i) a second pistol grip,

(ii) a threaded barrel,

(iii) a barrel shroud or

(iv) can accept a detachable magazine outside of the pistol grip, and

(v) a semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds.

A semiautomatic shotgun with:

(i) a folding or telescoping stock,

(ii) a pistol grip (see definition below),

(iii) the ability to accept a detachable magazine or a fixed magazine capacity of more than 5 rounds, and

(iv) a shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

Frames or receivers for the above are included, along with conversion kits.

 

[bosshogg]

The day this government makes me a criminal for exercising my God given rights which are protected in this nation's Bill of Rights is the day I consider this government has become tyrannical and is operating illegally. I am not alone...

 

[dmanlyr]

In many states the Ku Klux Klan was sued when hate crimes were perpetuated against blacks. This almost bankrupted the KKK. When we have mass shootings with assault weapons, why don’t we sue the NRA or assault weapon manufacturers? Bankrupting these purveyors of death and destruction would be poetic justice.

So tell me Dennis, when are we going to sue bathtub makers as well? people die in bathtubs as well.

If you really want to start with the main mechanical purveyors of death and destruction. OUTLAW cars and trucks. More people die in them than guns.

But then, what is the #1 cause of death in this world? One word - LIFE. If we had no life, we would have no death. Everything currently living dies. Sooner or later it happens. So if you really want to stop purveyors of death, how about you sue God or Evolution? Unreasonable? Yes, it is, but then so is blaming a inanimate object like a gun for killing someone.

People kill people, not guns, cars or bathtubs.

So I have to I ask, why would a M-1 be considered a Assaut rifle in any form? It is a military rifle, but was never built nor concieved as a modern assault rifle. In fact, when it was designed the term "assault rifle" was not even coined.

Methinks you are fairly uneducated in wepons, history in general and basicly just spouting a paticular parties line, in this case the Dems party line (but I also take exception about those who spout the Republican party line in the same circumstances) without educating YOURSELF as to what is available, what constitutes a "assault weapon" and so on.

Just because a paticular gun is styled like, or finished in black does not make it a assault weapon, and ANY educated and ANY REASONABLE thinking human would understand that.

And you are REASONABLE are you not? Right?

I guess I have to conclude, using your own "Reasonable" statement that any reasonable person would realize that you are wrong in your uneducated, unresearched assumptions.

Perhaps I am again getting too pointed in directly pointing this debate towards you, but really, please uderstand this is only open disscusion and don't take it too seriously.

You have every right to your opinion!

David

 

[dmanlyr]

The day this government makes me a criminal for exercising my God given rights which are protected in this nation's Bill of Rights is the day I consider this government has become tyrannical and is operating illegally. I am not alone...

And not to go to far off topic, we the people have the right to replace the current government when it pleases us or the existing government fails to serve us.

Yes, Consistutionaly this is the case. The government is here to serve us, the people, NOT the other way around. Of course I am a beleiver in some rules and laws, otherwise kaos would exist. But the government in my opinion has lost sight of the FACT that they serve at our will. And are elected to do our will. period. (and I am the first to admit that the both the Democratic and Republican parties are the two worst offenders of this)

David

 

[lsmurphy]

In many states the Ku Klux Klan was sued when hate crimes were perpetuated against blacks. This almost bankrupted the KKK. When we have mass shootings with assault weapons, why don’t we sue the NRA or assault weapon manufacturers? Bankrupting these purveyors of death and destruction would be poetic justice.





................The Democrats current gun-ban-list proposal ...................

Rifles (or copies or duplicates):

M1 Carbine

Sturm Ruger Mini-14

AR-15

Bushmaster XM15

Armalite M15

AR-10

Thompson 1927

Thompson M1

AK

AKM

AKS

AK-47

AK-74

ARM

MAK90

NHM 90

NHM 91

SA 85

SA 93

VEPR

Olympic Arms PCR

AR70

Calico Liberty

Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle or DragunovSVU

Fabrique National FN/FAL

FN/LAR, or FNC

Hi-Point20Carbine

HK-91, HK-93

HK-94

HK-PSG-1

Thompson 1927 Commando

Kel-Tec Sub Rifle

Saiga

SAR-8

SAR-4800

SKS with detachable magazine

SLG 95

SLR 95 or 96

Steyr AU

Tavor

Uzi

Galil and Uzi Sporter

Galil Sporter or Galil Sniper Rifle (Galatz)







Pistols (or copies or duplicates):

Calico M-110

MAC-10

MAC-11

MPA3

Olympic Arms OA

TEC-9,

TEC-DC9,

TEC-22 Scorpion or AB-10

Uzi

Shotguns (or copies or duplicates):

Armscor 30 BG

SPAS 12 or LAW 12

Striker 12

Streetsweeper






Catch-all category (for anything missed or new designs):

A semiautomatic rifle that accepts a detachable magazine and has:

(i) a folding or telescoping stock,

(ii) a threaded barrel,

(iii) a pistol grip (which includes ANYTHING that can serve as a grip, see below),

(iv) a forward grip; or a barrel shroud.

Any semiautomatic rifle with a fixed magazine that can accept more than

10 rounds (except tubular magazine .22 rim fire rifles).

A semiautomatic pistol that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine, and has:

(i) a second pistol grip,

(ii) a threaded barrel,

(iii) a barrel shroud or

(iv) can accept a detachable magazine outside of the pistol grip, and

(v) a semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that can accept more than 10 rounds.

A semiautomatic shotgun with:

(i) a folding or telescoping stock,

(ii) a pistol grip (see definition below),

(iii) the ability to accept a detachable magazine or a fixed magazine capacity of more than 5 rounds, and

(iv) a shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

Frames or receivers for the above are included, along with conversion kits.

My ire is directed at you because I know precisely who you are.


Understand that more of what you want to ban was sold in three weeks than in the last three years.
Most wholesalers and retailer are sold out........gone.


You and those like you have a serious delimma on your hands.

These folks have no.....NO!.....intention of handing over anything to the fed or appeasing you in any way.

 

[dmanlyr]

I have been hesitant to bring this up, but perhaps another way to look at this whole issue of weapon free zones as in schools is to compare to another facility with a weapon free zone.

And that would be a maximum security prison. Safe there right? Not. People still figure out ways to kill one another. Why? Because they want to and no rule is going to stop them as they have decided to not follow the rule, no how many are passed.

After all, how do you think they ended up in maximum security in the first place?

How about this, we let all the non violent offenders that were put in jail for minor charges out of jail and put in the insane and mentaly ill instead, you know them, the people that are let off for crimes because they did not know better... still a crime is a crime and society has a right to protect itself from rabid dogs so to speak.

While I do not agree 100% with the NRA, I do agree that is takes a good guy (or group of good guys) to put down a bad guy.

Just food for thought

David