Exactly - well said!High capacity full auto weapons are very restricted in the US as well. If a person has one it's one of two cases. Either your a criminal that doesn't care what the laws are or you are a law abiding citizen who has been checked out by every law agency in the country. They know everything you do, everything you eat and probably the last time you dropped a deuce. You have done 3 truck loads of paperwork and it has cost you a pocket full of money to get the permits.
So, after the finger prints, photo taken, background check, money paid approved or not, waiting period where you are probed like a lab rat, a entire rain forest worth of paperwork filled out, you might get your permit. Now after waiting 6 months for all the above to pass you get to go pay $25K for a standard BAR rifle with only one clip.
Legal ownership of a full auto isn't readily available to all. It's not easy nor cheap. After waiting months for your permits and thousands spent the person who can afford this privilege still has to fill out even more paperwork for every weapon purchased and again pay thousands for the transfer to their name. The FBI has this paperwork on file and have each and every weapon this normal citizen owns listed. The person who has gone thru this isn't the one shooting up a school or robbing a bank. The one doing those things is most likely a thief or a dope head who cares nothing about the law or gives a second thought for human life.
Once again we are back to square one. It's not the gun at fault. Blame the criminal, not the gun. Make it hard on the man doing the crime not the law abiding citizen who want to legally purchase a gun.
My heart goes out
- Thread starter Iowan
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Wild and Free
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From reading through everything and listening to the news and all the local talk radios ect ect, I agree it all needs to start at home.......................Except for the fact that home is no longer what we perceive from the 50's.
It all ended with the Baby boomer generation, this is where the drug issues started coming into the picture.
I am a "Gen X" The smallest generation population. Why? The introduction of contraception in the 60's.
Boomers accepted drugs more openly and it has snowballed from there.
Law enforcement and drugs enforcement has not chimed in as to where the "Prescription drug" issue lies.
It is common knowledge that a lot of parents want their kids on the meds so they themselves can steel the feel good meds for themselves and it is an easy way to do it.
So tell me how fixing the problem that starts at home can be fixed at home?????????????????????
Kids are bombed with drugs and chemicals right out of the womb, via disease inducing vacines and continues from there via the GMO pollution we call food now days that is infused and in most cases contain more fake filler byproducts and chemicals than actual food. Then when you get sick from the poison your body is trying to fight they pump more chemicals into you to fight the mass of other chemicals already inside.
It needs to start at the source, The FDA, The Senators and Legislators, drug companies and the medical field have to be held accountable. Most of these people would NOT become suicidal and have violent outbursts of rage without the brain altering phyciatric drugs.
Here are several other articles that have come out reinforcing the "Prescription phyciatric drug" that is the issue not the guns!
http://www.naturalnews.com/038376_psychiatric_medications_guns_voting.html
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012...-become-violent-without-anti-depressants.html
Then there is the issue of morality in our government. Obama has been killing innocent civilians and children since day one. But does it matter "Who's" kids die?
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/128745.html
Did we just Kill a Kid?
http://www.businessinsider.com/did-we-just-kill-a-kid-nicola-abe-der-spiegel-brandon-bryant-2012-12
Will Obama Cry For Children He Has Killed With Drones?
A few more Medical drug related articles.
http://www.naturalnews.com/036678_guns_drugs_violent_shootings.html
http://www.naturalnews.com/036679_doctors_guns_fatalities.html
If this doesn't sway you then look into all the military suicides shootings by military personal of which many many are happening to lots and lots who have never seen an active war zone. They are subjected to dozens of vacinations and more and we now see the delayed effects of this human experiment by the government.
It all ended with the Baby boomer generation, this is where the drug issues started coming into the picture.
I am a "Gen X" The smallest generation population. Why? The introduction of contraception in the 60's.
Boomers accepted drugs more openly and it has snowballed from there.
Law enforcement and drugs enforcement has not chimed in as to where the "Prescription drug" issue lies.
It is common knowledge that a lot of parents want their kids on the meds so they themselves can steel the feel good meds for themselves and it is an easy way to do it.
So tell me how fixing the problem that starts at home can be fixed at home?????????????????????
Kids are bombed with drugs and chemicals right out of the womb, via disease inducing vacines and continues from there via the GMO pollution we call food now days that is infused and in most cases contain more fake filler byproducts and chemicals than actual food. Then when you get sick from the poison your body is trying to fight they pump more chemicals into you to fight the mass of other chemicals already inside.
It needs to start at the source, The FDA, The Senators and Legislators, drug companies and the medical field have to be held accountable. Most of these people would NOT become suicidal and have violent outbursts of rage without the brain altering phyciatric drugs.
Here are several other articles that have come out reinforcing the "Prescription phyciatric drug" that is the issue not the guns!
http://www.naturalnews.com/038376_psychiatric_medications_guns_voting.html
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012...-become-violent-without-anti-depressants.html
Then there is the issue of morality in our government. Obama has been killing innocent civilians and children since day one. But does it matter "Who's" kids die?
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/128745.html
Did we just Kill a Kid?
http://www.businessinsider.com/did-we-just-kill-a-kid-nicola-abe-der-spiegel-brandon-bryant-2012-12
Will Obama Cry For Children He Has Killed With Drones?
A few more Medical drug related articles.
http://www.naturalnews.com/036678_guns_drugs_violent_shootings.html
http://www.naturalnews.com/036679_doctors_guns_fatalities.html
If this doesn't sway you then look into all the military suicides shootings by military personal of which many many are happening to lots and lots who have never seen an active war zone. They are subjected to dozens of vacinations and more and we now see the delayed effects of this human experiment by the government.
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76_Bronco
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Why didn't you grab this one while you were there. It was taken the very same day and posted right under the one you just posted above
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Okay it appears I was wrong about your gun laws in the United States, thank's for enlightening me.
However in the case where someone is fully prepared to give up there life, its pretty hard to anticipate and stop them, I'm just not sure there's any answer to that.
And while I agree that you can kill someone with just about anything, obviously you will be able to kill more people with a automatic gun than you could with a single shot one. But I do agree, banning guns isn't going to solve the problem, as they will just find other ways, like making a bomb.
It all just so senseless, and I can't even begin to imagine the pain and suffering of having to bury your own child.
However in the case where someone is fully prepared to give up there life, its pretty hard to anticipate and stop them, I'm just not sure there's any answer to that.
And while I agree that you can kill someone with just about anything, obviously you will be able to kill more people with a automatic gun than you could with a single shot one. But I do agree, banning guns isn't going to solve the problem, as they will just find other ways, like making a bomb.
It all just so senseless, and I can't even begin to imagine the pain and suffering of having to bury your own child.
Soooo basically what you're saying is if I eat the chemically altered food at McDonald's and from the grocery store I'm more prone to blow somebody's head off cause of the chemicals inside me???! SORRY hoss it doesn't work that way!
I'm 31 years old, 315lbs eat out every night of the week. I don't get sick I never go to the doctors and hardly take anything more then ibuprofen so generals aches and pains. I smoke I drink and I cuss like a sailor and I'm as strong as an ox and healthy as a horse.
So tell me again how all these "chemicals" I ingest will make me batshit crazy? Ohh I forgot the information you posted in the links came from the internet. That has to be true right, cause its from the internet?!?!
76_Bronco
Member
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B7200 4WD w/FEL, 4' disc, 4' Brush Hog, 14" Plow, 4' Blade, JD 246 2 row Planter
That really depends on the gun and ammo. Just move up to a double barrel shotgun or maybe a pump action, neither of which are on the ban list. The AR-15 is mostly chambered for the 5.56x45mm/.223 cartridge. The diameter of the bullet is .224" the same as your .22 caliber rifle. A 12Ga shotgun shooting a 3" No 4 buckshot is way more lethal because each shell holds 41 lead pellets that measure .240" diameter. A person could take grandpaws old 12ga pump and saw the barrel off to about 16" and load up 5 rounds in the tube and have a gun that will shoot a 6-8 foot wide blanket of lead at 15yds. Just 5 of those shotgun shells would be equal to over 200 bullets and easily fired in about 5 seconds, you would be hard pressed to get off 10 rounds from an AR-15 in 5 seconds. For self defence I'll take the shotgun. And for coyote hunting I'll take the AR-15.
I am not sure where many on other parts of the world think that full auto guns are issued at birth in the states, so your misunderstanding of the laws on full auto is understandable.
It is interesting that you mention bombs. The worse mass school killing in the states was done by bombs, not guns.
Very interesting.
I agree that something has to be done, but it needs to be a combination of several things, and it is not going to be a simple one quick law change. I can think of many things, but it is not going to be quick or simple, and frankly with many in America not caring to give more that a day or two thoughts to a issue, nor interested in reading about history and taking the time to understand how we got to where we are now, I fear not much is going to change other than further restrictions that are bound to again in one word, fail.
A perfect example of this was right after 9-11, all of a sudden people who could have cared less about learning about the American flag, how to display it, how to honor it, flag ediquite if you will all of a sudden were flag waving Americans. I watched with great gladness as people on the street corner would hold the flag up high as cars would go by, just to reel in horror as those same people would let the flag touch the ground between cars. These great "patriots" had never taken the time to learn about our flag, could care less about its history, could not even devote a few hours of there life towards learning so they never understood that was a big no no and it meant that that paticular flag needed to be retired.
Spoon fed and told to wave a flag, but no desire to understand anything more....
Great, where are they now? Back in there own little worlds, could care less. I hate to sound jaded, but wow, if we as a people overall could care less about a basic premese of America, how can there be any reasonable educated, thoughful future?
Another perfect example. I consider myself a Christian with a faith in God and John 3:16. BUT that is MY faith and while I will disscuss it, debate it with anyone, at the end of the day I will agree to dissagee and respect other faiths (or no faiths). I have read the Book of Mormon, the Koran, I have also read the eastern teachings like Buddism, I have educated myself in what others might beleive or have faith in. I have also looked quite a bit in depth about the therory of evolution. Not because I am looking for verification in what I believe in or another answer to a better faith if you will, but so I can better understand and disscuss the various aspects, and in all honesty, better defend and explain why and how I came to the conclusion of where I am. God gave us a brain and free will for something, right?
But I was at the store the other day and a clerk was witnessing to me and I asked her how come she beleived in what she believed in and it came down to this ... because someone told her to in church. WHAT!?! She had no idea that Christian faith is between you and God, and church is for beleivers to co mingle, not that somehow chuch was where you find salvation. wow, such ignorance, she was a older lady and even said that she had never read the bible as she "never had the time", let alone, in her words that other crap... (as in other treachings) so when I asked her some questions, she just folded up like a rag doll and walked away. That sure was a good defense of her "faith" .. run away at the first "But......
Again, sorry for the lack of faith in some of my fellow Americans.. but we as a people need to stop this edification of fast and quick fixes for everthing and go back to a more thoughtful and educated approach. Perhaps a turn from the hard right and hard left mantra of politics would also be in order, but that is a whole can of worms in its self!
Something about moderation in all things comes to mind.. Perhaps another lesson that needs to be learned from our collective past.
David
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Yeah this has gone to a random pissing contest over the past 5 days. Everybody is right everybody is wrong, everybody else's shit stinks but their own.
Maybe it's time to let this thread die out. Maybe even have Vic or Mr. K delete it so it doesn't arise in the future. Lets face it all of us who've commented on this post can argue over who's right or wrong and what's best and what isn't til the end of time.
I'm sure some dumbass in this world will cause a mass chaotic situation next week and we'll all pop back on here going I TOLD YOU SO!
Let's get back to what this form is all about and that's the orange Kubota tractor's we all love.
Maybe it's time to let this thread die out. Maybe even have Vic or Mr. K delete it so it doesn't arise in the future. Lets face it all of us who've commented on this post can argue over who's right or wrong and what's best and what isn't til the end of time.
I'm sure some dumbass in this world will cause a mass chaotic situation next week and we'll all pop back on here going I TOLD YOU SO!
Let's get back to what this form is all about and that's the orange Kubota tractor's we all love.
Eric,
Unfortuanlty, or perhaps more importantly this is where the "off topic" forums go at times. Short of outright pointed and personal name calling, threats and such, we as a people can only improve our lives by robust and dynamic disscussions, and I for one would hate to see this forum join those many others that only allow one opinion to be expressed.
You and I had a rather good disccussion on manual verses HST's. While not nearly as important as this disscussion, could you imagine that if only a for, or against manuals opinion was allowed on here?
I don't think that anyone is saying that there way is the only way and that there stuff don't stink. Not by far. What we are all trying to do as reasonable thinking human beings is to try and work thru this. Perhaps part of that working thru process is getting dfferent ideas out there for disscussion.
Perhaps part of the process is figuring out what are the facts, and what are opinions.
Perhaps part of the process of working thru this is to correct misconceptions, express concern for those lost, express ourrage at the total stupidity of the sensless killing. Perhaps part of that process is understanding that life is risky and there are many other ways to kill, or be killed than just guns.
Perhaps part of the process is dealing with the emotional side verses the logical side of things.
One thing to remember is we all deal with this differently, grief is weird. It is a process that must be gone thru on the higher plane we as humans think on. Abstractly, we can be sad, outraged, depressed and pissed all in mere seconds. Some like to talk about things, some like to disscuss, some like to be quiet. Each to there own, but for those who like ro disscuss, then so be it.
I like to read, study and then disscuss, talk and at times debate things. That works for me. It also allows me to understand and hear other thoughts, facts and opinions, which at times change my thinking, especially if I had not looked at something in that light before.
I am not the same person now in thoughts on things than I was as 20 or 30. people change, and part of that is learnign new things, and being open to new things. But part of that is also being able to defend what one believe in past the point of "just because" at least in my opinion.
One thing that is obvious, we, here is this forum cannot cure the worlds ills, nor Americas ills, however like any community, be it church, city, neiborhood, we can collectilty help each other out. And then it goes from there....
David
Unfortuanlty, or perhaps more importantly this is where the "off topic" forums go at times. Short of outright pointed and personal name calling, threats and such, we as a people can only improve our lives by robust and dynamic disscussions, and I for one would hate to see this forum join those many others that only allow one opinion to be expressed.
You and I had a rather good disccussion on manual verses HST's. While not nearly as important as this disscussion, could you imagine that if only a for, or against manuals opinion was allowed on here?
I don't think that anyone is saying that there way is the only way and that there stuff don't stink. Not by far. What we are all trying to do as reasonable thinking human beings is to try and work thru this. Perhaps part of that working thru process is getting dfferent ideas out there for disscussion.
Perhaps part of the process is figuring out what are the facts, and what are opinions.
Perhaps part of the process of working thru this is to correct misconceptions, express concern for those lost, express ourrage at the total stupidity of the sensless killing. Perhaps part of that process is understanding that life is risky and there are many other ways to kill, or be killed than just guns.
Perhaps part of the process is dealing with the emotional side verses the logical side of things.
One thing to remember is we all deal with this differently, grief is weird. It is a process that must be gone thru on the higher plane we as humans think on. Abstractly, we can be sad, outraged, depressed and pissed all in mere seconds. Some like to talk about things, some like to disscuss, some like to be quiet. Each to there own, but for those who like ro disscuss, then so be it.
I like to read, study and then disscuss, talk and at times debate things. That works for me. It also allows me to understand and hear other thoughts, facts and opinions, which at times change my thinking, especially if I had not looked at something in that light before.
I am not the same person now in thoughts on things than I was as 20 or 30. people change, and part of that is learnign new things, and being open to new things. But part of that is also being able to defend what one believe in past the point of "just because" at least in my opinion.
One thing that is obvious, we, here is this forum cannot cure the worlds ills, nor Americas ills, however like any community, be it church, city, neiborhood, we can collectilty help each other out. And then it goes from there....
David
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I would like to offer one final comment, but it doesn't take either side; I belong to some other forums, and they police posts like crazy. They would have shut this down, and deleted the entire string. I really appreciate OTT letting this hash out. I know that emotions can range and people can get heated, but if the group is sensible, and if they respect each other even in the heat of discussion, then a thread like this can happen without a throwdown. Like Eric said, maybe it's time to end it. But, I am glad that the moderators haven't, and they don't have to now- we can just let sleeping dogs lie. I have no more comments on the subject.
Gotta Agree "dmanlyr" discussion is healthy, no two people think completely alike, everything is tempored by your up bringing, beliefs, and life experiences. However you have to be tolerant enough to hear other peoples point of view, who knows someone may raise a point you never considered.
Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't necessarily mean they are wrong, sometimes there is no right way or wrong way.
Just like a group trying to solve this problem, where as it may be impossible to solve, some good ideas may be raised to help improve things as long as everyone gets there chance to express there views without being put down or called out, its called brain storming.
And I also am glad the mediators allowed this to run its coarse, as I can see everyone has come to agree there is no fast or easy way to prevent this from happening again.
Again my condolences to everyone that lost a loved one.
Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't necessarily mean they are wrong, sometimes there is no right way or wrong way.
Just like a group trying to solve this problem, where as it may be impossible to solve, some good ideas may be raised to help improve things as long as everyone gets there chance to express there views without being put down or called out, its called brain storming.
And I also am glad the mediators allowed this to run its coarse, as I can see everyone has come to agree there is no fast or easy way to prevent this from happening again.
Again my condolences to everyone that lost a loved one.
My final thoughts on how to prevent a school shooting again, and the best damn idea I've heard in a LONG time. Is put unemployed out of work military service men and women the position of guarding the kids at school. I'm sure many of them would love the job on watching over the children and it would provide them with an income. There are thousands of well trained unemployed military who need a job. If they protect the Embassies and the President hisdamnself why cant they protcect our kids at school?
You claim to be a life long hunter but hate guns. If you're a hunter why aren't you a NRA member. A group that's soul purpose is to protect our 2nd ammendment rights. You obviously are the type person that can't see the forest for the trees. You have expressed several times that you are more than willing to give up your rights/freedom and for that you should be ashamed.
Thousands of our on people were proud to not only fight for freedom but willing to give their life to insure we could have it. The thoughtful americans are not the ones I'm worried about. It's the ones hiding in the shadows that bother me. They are looking for the same light and if they know we can't defend ourselves it will always be to their advantage.
For the life of me I can't understand why people like you really believe that more laws will stop something that's already illegal.
Do you think a criminal is going to care any more about a new law than the ones we already have? If you truely want to make a difference start in the prison system. Make it so that repeat offenders are a thing of the past. Public hanging would be a good start. You want a three step program that really works, I have one for you.
Step 1:
you get to dig a grave
Step 2:
you get to shoot someone on step 3
Step 3:
target for step 2
I really believe this program would make a impact on life long criminals returning to prison time and time again. At least the third visit would be the last.
Maybe you will open your eyes to the real truth one day instead of what the news media wants you to believe. Until that time I hope you and your family are able to stay out of harms way. As long as you continue to ride the fence as you are right now if you came face to face with danger you would hesitate not knowing how to react. In your confused state of mind you will be a victom instead of a defender/protector of your family. I hope that day never comes... Good luck to you and I wish your family a safe holiday season...
Harrold Texas is doing the right way. Teachers and administrators carry consealed handguns to their classes and have been since the Va tech attack. The article says people bring their kids to that district just for that kind of protection.
Way to go Texas...
Way to go Texas...
If they are trained and qualified, them AMEN-AMEN for TEXAS. Sounds like a place I'd like to live.
I think about those kids, their families, and the family of the shooter every day. So sorry for all involved except the shooter. His fate just needed to happen about an hour before he got to the school.
TripleR
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My heart goes out to those effected, we have grand children that age and my daughter is a teacher.
Remainder deleted, pointless.
Remainder deleted, pointless.
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TripleR, I read your post before you deleted it, and I found it wise and insightful.