Top and Tilt debacle...A pictorial guide on how to shoot ones self in the foot (Part 2)

[Runs With Scissors]

Ok fellas, I think threads that go 3 pages get too long, so here's the update(s) so far on this fu@@ing debacle.

Part 1 link here for those that want a good laugh.

First I would like to thank all for your help and advice. Although my execution of said advice might be a little lacking.

I will eventually add a "reflections" post to review my "wins and loses".


Ok so I left off having to order some fittings and some of it got back ordered.


The original Banjo fittings I ordered were too small, so I had to order bigger ones to fit the Convert-A-Flare fittings

I am a little concerned about space at this point, but I'm hoping it will "just fit".

Well here we are....I'm pretty excited to finish this so I lay it all out as such.

Although space is becoming more of a concern. One unknown is how much everything "squishes" up, so I plan to do one side complete and then take my measurement for the final tube.

I know it's gonna be tight, but fingers crossed, here we go!!!!

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Hmmm.... something isn't quite right.....The Convert-A-Flare ferrule (CAF hencforth) seems a little sloppy.

So, now I'm perplexed....I double check my order to make sure I ordered 1/2 inch CAF's and sure enough I did.

So I put the ferrule that came with the CV on to see how it fits and it seems to fit much tighter as I would expect.

Now I am just confused as all hell. I am tempted to just use the ferrule that came with CAF nut and see how it goes, but there is a nagging voice in me that says "don't do it, somethings wrong".

I looked back at my original pic of the tube diameter and sure enough, it's 1/2 inch, so WTF is wrong?

Here's the original pic.

WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Runs With Scissors]

It turns out that getting pi$$ed off and throwing things about the shop does not fix my problem.

As my blood pressure reaches 225/178, I grab my calipers and measure both tubes.

Can you Mother@@cking believe it!!!!!!!

When I took that pic, I must have had it too far from the tube, so it was an "optical illusion". That F'ing tube was not 1/2 inch, it was Son of a B!tching .468 or 15/32.

OMG now I'm just feeling like this

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Ok Now what?

I stopped and poured myself a stiff drink and pondered my next step, which at this point, might just be "give up".

I'll give it a day or so....

 

[woodman55]

Now personally, I adjust mine so much that check valves would be of little use to me. I look at them the way I look at the loader, if they are not quite where I want them I adjust them.

I do feel sorry for you, look on the bright side, in a year this will make for a great story.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Well then I got to "think'n" which is a dangerous thing for me sometimes.

I wondered if they sold 1/2 inch "thick walled" tubing that I could turn down to .468?

Yep....It turns out they do, so another 25 bucks and a week later my "solution" arrives, so it's off to the lathe for me.

Please bear in mind, I am not a machinist.

In the interest of time, I decided to use the 3 jaw,

I square up the ends and then set it up for turning.

Then I center the bit "a Scosh high' and I decide in order to prevent flexing, a live center is in order.

Well that turned out like total sh!t....

I redo it, and decided to turn the speed way up and I get a decent result.

I can at least clean it up with Scotch-Brite to something that is barely acceptable to me.

Now for my Nemisis.....Parting it off. This is the sucky part of any lathe work I do. I just can't get the hang of it, so I just "Hack and Slash" my way through it.

I forgot to take a picture but it turned out........ well I guess I'd call it.....acceptable enough.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Well I start putting it together and it was "Just Barely" long enough to 'possibly work'.

But the kick in the junk is that I have run out of "real-estate"......Even if it worked, the other side is coming up way short.

Ok, well it was worth a try.....NOT......

I decide that this F'ing thing is going to get done and F'ing work if it kills me.

Then it pops into my head.....

I say "Hey dumbass, the reason you started this is because "one" end was not 'swivel-able" , but now that you cleaned up those "boss's" you can use that 'swivel-able" fitting. Couple that with the Banjo fitting and the CAF and BAM.....you're "In like Flynn" (whatever that means)

So I search through the 500 useless fittings on my bench

I grab the Banjo bolt and CAF, then I mock it up and then.........

(play sad violin music in back ground)

 

[Runs With Scissors]

From here on out, I can't really recall with 100% clarity. The mix of anger, frustration, dejection, disappointment, and disbelief is difficult to explain.....

FU@@ IT!!!!!!

To the welder Batman!!!!!!

So I grab my trusty "Tube Bender" and give her a yank

and then the grinder to "trim" her up a wee bit.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Well.....It F'ing works!!!!!!!!!!

Kinda.

I tested it yesterday, and everything works, but there is one "Super Minor" leak at my "Bird-Sh1t" looking weld. I'll have to remedy that next week.

I could have sworn I took a pic, but I can't find it now. I also posted a video of it working

Proof of life.......

Kubota l2501 Top and tilt cylinder testing

Testing top and tilt cylinder with newly install DPOCV

rumble.com

small leak.

https://rumble.com/v3cnu14-kubota-l2501-top-and-tilt-leaking-a-smidge.html

 

[will721]

Seems like everytime I open one of your threads I get just a little more jealous of your lathe. Irritating.

 

[Mikeymotorbikey]

Seems like everytime I open one of your threads I get just a little more jealous of your lathe. Irritating.

YES!! This^^^^
And the story telling.

 

[woodman55]

It was a hard fought battle, but you won in the end.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Seems like everytime I open one of your threads I get just a little more jealous of your lathe. Irritating.

Hahahah.....the lathe only came to be, by "twist of fate".

My brother found an estate sale somehow and needed my trailer to load up some wood he bought and told me I should probably bring some cash with me "just in case"

Well when we showed up to get it, I was flabbergasted at the tools that this guy had in his shop. (mostly wood working). I have never seen this amount of tools in one guys shop. EVER.....PERIOD!

There was this lathe and tool box filled with dial indicators and tool bits, sitting there and I inquired about them.

The lady said, "How about $500 for them?"

I reached for the money so fast that I nearly "threw my shoulder out of socket" ....

The rest is history.......

We bought so much sh!t, we looked like this driving home.....

 

[Runs With Scissors]

YES!! This^^^^
And the story telling.

Thanks for the kind words.

It was a hard fought battle, but you won in the end.

Thanks woodman, however "won" might be a strong word...let's call it a "draw" .......so far....

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Diary of a Madman

1. Would I do it again?

Answer: As of this writing........Honestly, I'm not sure.

I did learn quite a bit, however it did not turn out as good as I had hoped. I usually expect some set backs, but the amount of challenges/defeats/disappointments in this project was abnormally high.

2. When Agristore says "this DPOCV is ONLY for OUR cylinders" They ain't kidding. Although I can't say for
certain, it very much seemed to me that the fittings were "proprietary". However it is entirely possible I just don't know what the hell I am doing.


3. I learned that my next big project (this winter), "The Hydraulic Thumb" , will be much better thought out. (Especially the hydraulics!!!!)


4. In case your wondering, including shipping and everything, it probably cost me about $400 to $500 to do this. (most of the receipts were lost in the raging fits of anger whilst throwing things and cursing)

5. One up side is, now I have "extra" hydraulic fittings "just in case"


6. After reading this thread, if you try this, your a..........

Paul

 

[TheOldHokie]

Diary of a Madman

1. Would I do it again?

Answer: As of this writing........Honestly, I'm not sure.

I did learn quite a bit, however it did not turn out as good as I had hoped. I usually expect some set backs, but the amount of challenges/defeats/disappointments in this project was abnormally high.

2. When Agristore says "this DPOCV is ONLY for OUR cylinders" They ain't kidding. Although I can't say for
certain, it very much seemed to me that the fittings were "proprietary". However it is entirely possible I just don't know what the hell I am doing.


3. I learned that my next big project (this winter), "The Hydraulic Thumb" , will be much better thought out. (Especially the hydraulics!!!!)


4. In case your wondering, including shipping and everything, it probably cost me about $400 to $500 to do this. (most of the receipts were lost in the raging fits of anger whilst throwing things and cursing)

5. One up side is, now I have "extra" hydraulic fittings "just in case"


6. After reading this thread, if you try this, your a..........


View attachment 110281


Paul

I am confused by the .462 part of this epic. Where did that tube come from?

You CAF and banjo fittings are 1/2" (JIC-08) so why are you turning 1/2 " down to what amounts to 12mm?

Dan

 

[Runs With Scissors]

I am confused by the .462 part of this epic. Where did that tube come from?

I found out that the tube that came with the "Agristore check" valve was not 1/2" OD. It was only .468 OD

You CAF and banjo fittings are 1/2" (JIC-08) so why are you turning 1/2 " down to what amounts to 12mm?

So, I doubted that the 1/2" CAF would work with that smaller tube.

Therefore, my idea was to buy a 1/2" tube and use it with the 1/2" CAF, to join to the banjo fitting like you suggested, and turn the CV end of the tube down to .468 to work with the fittings that came with the "Agristore CV".

 

[TheOldHokie]

I found out that the tube that came with the "Agristore check" valve was not 1/2" OD. It was only .468 OD

So, I doubted that the 1/2" CAF would work with that smaller tube.

Therefore, my idea was to buy a 1/2" tube and use it with the 1/2" CAF, to join to the banjo fitting like you suggested, and turn the CV end of the tube down to .468 to work with the fittings that came with the "Agristore CV".

View attachment 110300

9
Slowly catching up. I did not realize the valve came with an adapter and tube.

I suspect the fitting from Agristore is a 24 degee DIN bite type compression fitting used with 12mm tube. That is a standard European analog to CAV. The other end is probably BSPT or BSPP. A simple no machining needed transition would have been to replace that Agristore fitting with a BSP to male JiC-08 adapter and toss the metric tube.

Then your 1/2 tube, CAF fittings, and banjo can be easily cut and joined on the bench to the exact length needed to center over the port on the cylinder. That leaves you with the height mismatch problem which can be solved with a steel spacer and longer banjo bolt. Those items would have been a good project for practicing your turning, boring, threading, and parting off skills on the lathe

Dan

 

[Runs With Scissors]

9
Slowly catching up. I did not realize the valve came with an adapter and tube.

I suspect the fitting from Agristore is a 24 degee DIN bite type compression fitting used with 12mm tube. That is a standard European analog to CAV. The other end is probably BSPT or BSPP. A simple no machining needed transition would have been to replace that Agristore fitting with a BSP to male JiC-08 adapter and toss the metric tube.


View attachment 110305


Then your 1/2 tube, CAF fittings, and banjo can be easily cut and joined on the bench to the exact length needed to center over the port on the cylinder. That leaves you with the height mismatch problem which can be solved with a steel spacer and longer banjo bolt. Those items would have been a good project for practicing your turning, boring, threading, and parting off skills on the lathe

Dan

Thanks Dan.

I am on the fence right now.

Part of me wants to do this the "right way" and part of me says "take the draw" and move on.

I removed this from the CV that I screwed up. Can you tell me what what style it is? BSPT or BSPP?

Also do they make a 14mm Banjo fitting that goes to a male JIC-08?

I have the adaptors that step up my "14 mm Banjo to male 06 JIC" , to a "male 08 JIC", however space between the "boss's" is at a premium, and I think I will need that extra space.

Paul

 

[TheOldHokie]

Thanks Dan.

I am on the fence right now.

Part of me wants to do this the "right way" and part of me says "take the draw" and move on.

I removed this from the CV that I screwed up. Can you tell me what what style it is? BSPT or BSPP?

View attachment 110382

Also do they make a 14mm Banjo fitting that goes to a male JIC-08?

I have the adaptors that step up my "14 mm Banjo to male 06 JIC" , to a "male 08 JIC", however space between the "boss's" is at a premium, and I think I will need that extra space.

Paul

Any time you see an o-ring you can pretty safely rule out taper pipe. However that is more than a port adapter. There is something going on inside it - appears to be an integral part of the valve itself. That puts the kebosh on my idea.

It appears you are stuck using 12mm tube so lets think European and ditch JIC. You could easily fit a DIN banjo with cutting rung and nut to the cylinder end - Adaptall p/n 3069L-18-18.

The bore in that banjo is 18mm but since you need a longer custom banjo bolt increasing the diameter of the shoulder would take care of that.

You would have compression fittings on both ends do its easy to get the exact length you need and assembly is a breeze.

Dan