SOLVED BX23S FEL lift stopped working?

[leveraddict]

It has tilt/curl just wont go up! I was cleaning some spoils from laying 100 ft of 4" perf corrugated pipe. I was pushing the dirt to the end of the property and decided to try float which I stopped as the front end was lifting. I dont know if that had anything to do with it, but thought id mention it. I continued to push dirt for 10 minutes more and it was lifting fine. On the next push when I tried to dump I had No lift! The BH is on for counter balance and everything on it works as it should. Tractor runs fine, fluid level is good, nothing leaking and have another 200 hrs before a fluid filter change. The FEL had been on for over a week so I didnt just put it on. At a very low rpm I was able lift the FEL an inch or so at a time so I could drop the stand and remove it to take off the manifold, check and reattach. I even checked with my hydraulic gage and have near 2000 lbs of pressure on all four of the couplers. Since the FEL lift line has good pressure maybe its an O ring failure in the manifold/FEL side? I tried the search function with no luck.

Another thought. Before I started working I had to attach the BH for weight. I realized I wasnt close enough to the BH and tried to move the machine a few inches, but it wouldnt move because I forgot that i had the hyd lines disconnected. Got it hooked up and everything ran fine for over a half hour. Not sure if that could have done something or not. Just putting it all out there! Appreciate any help!

 

[TheOldHokie]

It has tilt/curl just wont go up! I was cleaning some spoils from laying 100 ft of 4" perf corrugated pipe. I was pushing the dirt to the end of the property and decided to try float which I stopped as the front end was lifting. I dont know if that had anything to do with it, but thought id mention it. I continued to push dirt for 10 minutes more and it was lifting fine. On the next push when I tried to dump I had No lift! The BH is on for counter balance and everything on it works as it should. Tractor runs fine, fluid level is good, nothing leaking and have another 200 hrs before a fluid filter change. The FEL had been on for over a week so I didnt just put it on. At a very low rpm I was able lift the FEL an inch or so at a time so I could drop the stand and remove it to take off the manifold, check and reattach. I even checked with my hydraulic gage and have near 2000 lbs of pressure on all four of the couplers. Since the FEL lift line has good pressure maybe its an O ring failure in the manifold/FEL side? I tried the search function with no luck.

Another thought. Before I started working I had to attach the BH for weight. I realized I wasnt close enough to the BH and tried to move the machine a few inches, but it wouldnt move because I forgot that i had the hyd lines disconnected. Got it hooked up and everything ran fine for over a half hour. Not sure if that could have done something or not. Just putting it all out there! Appreciate any help!

Based on that chronology my first guess is one or both of the backhoe connections is not fully hooked up. That blocks the power beyond circuit which blocks the loader lift cylinders.

Dan

 

[leveraddict]

Based on that chronology my first guess is one or both of the backhoe connections is not fully hooked up. That blocks the power beyond circuit which blocks the loader lift cylinders.

Dan

Thanks for the quick response Hokie! I just went out and disconnected the BH lines and reconected....nothing. I disconnected the BH lines hooked up the power beyond eliminating the BH and the FEL still wont lift. Well it will very slowly at very low rpm's. If I raise the RPM's the loader wont lift at all.

 

[leveraddict]

Anyone know how to remove the black plastic cover around the joystick and other controls? I need to get a good look at the valve. Maybe it stopped working right after trying float, I dont remember exactly. Maybe the float plunger never released all the way???

 

[TheOldHokie]

Thanks for the quick response Hokie! I just went out and disconnected the BH lines and reconected....nothing. I disconnected the BH lines hooked up the power beyond eliminating the BH and the FEL still wont lift. Well it will very slowly at very low rpm's. If I raise the RPM's the loader wont lift at all.

Your loader curl/dump works but lift does not. The analysis goes like this:

1. Curl/dump uses the tank line for exhaust oil and thats OK
2. Lift uses the power beyond line for exhaust oil and that is not OK. Its blocked and as a consequence the cylinders are hydraulically locked.

Your mission is to find the blockage point. The way to do that is to start at the power beyond on the loader valve and work towards the rear. Check all couplers, make sure all remotes are in neutral, make sure 3pt is full down.

If that does not find the problem you hsve to start disconnecting things to see where the line is blocked. You do that by putting the disconnected line in the 3pt filler and starting the tractor. If the loader works with tje lune dusconnected the blockage is further down stream. If it does not wotk the blockage is upstream.

Rinse and repeat untill you find the point of blockage.

Dan

 

[GreensvilleJay]

well I'm cornfused.....
he has 2000PSI oil at ALL 4 ports, 2 for curl work fine, 2 for lift don't.
That to me says there's something wrong with the 2 hoses and/or the lift cylinders......???
I've never disconnected mine but am curious to know WHAT the cause of this is !

 

[TheOldHokie]

Anyone know how to remove the black plastic cover around the joystick and other controls? I need to get a good look at the valve. Maybe it stopped working right after trying float, I dont remember exactly. Maybe the float plunger never released all the way???

well I'm cornfused.....
he has 2000PSI oil at ALL 4 ports, 2 for curl work fine, 2 for lift don't.
That to me says there's something wrong with the 2 hoses and/or the lift cylinders......???
I've never disconnected mine but am curious to know WHAT the cause of this is !

I am not confused. It tells me the power beyond is blocked but tank is not.

Dan

 

[leveraddict]

I am not confused. It tells me the power beyond is blocked but tank is not.

Dan

What would the power beyond be blocked with? Air? The BX23S has the 4 hose in one quick coupler. Theres no way to swap hoses around. I went out again and removed the PB hose and burped the male and female fittings. I removed the quick coupler and did the same on both sides of the quick coupler. Hooked everything back up and at very low rpm the FEL started to raise normally so I throttled up and it nearly stops movement of the FEL.

Manual says remove air in the system by raising and lowering the FEL. Ive done that a few times but it takes forever to raise the FEL. One minute everything was working fine and the next the FEL no lift!

 

[TheOldHokie]

What would the power beyond be blocked with? Air? The BX23S has the 4 hose in one quick coupler. Theres no way to swap hoses around. I went out again and removed the PB hose and burped the male and female fittings. I removed the quick coupler and did the same on both sides of the quick coupler. Hooked everything back up and at very low rpm the FEL started to raise normally so I throttled up and it nearly stops movement of the FEL.

Manual says remove air in the system by raising and lowering the FEL. Ive done that a few times but it takes forever to raise the FEL. One minute everything was working fine and the next the FEL no lift!

Your problem is not air.

You have pressure at the work port but cylinder will not extend. This is pretty easy to diagnose.. Some quick possibilities and tests:

1. The work port coupler is not allowing that oil to reach the cylinder. Disconnect the hose at the cylinder and put it in a bucket. Try to raise the loader. No oil in the bucket the coupler is not properly connected. If you get oil out of the hose the coupler is connected and working. Reconnect hose and go to step 2.
2. At this point we know the pressure is getting to the base end but the oil in the rod end cannot exit and the cylinder is hydraulically locked. Disconnect the rod end hose coming back to the valve and put it in a bucket. Try to raise the loader. If it raises we know something downline of that hose is blocked. Reconnect the hose.
3. with the tractor shut off disconnect the power beyond hose going from the valve back to the tractor and put it in the transmission filler. Start the tractor and try to raise the loader. If it will not raise the workport coupler on the loader valve is not connected properly. If it does raise something downstream of the loader valve is blocking power beyond

Run those tests and report your findings. If the problem is downstream of the loader valve (likely) I will give you some more tests to run.

Dan

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Leveraddict, as TheOldHokie said in post #5, make sure your 3 point hitch control is fully down.

 

[leveraddict]

I tried the 3 point all the way down and it still doesnt work. I have had this tractor since Oct 2017 and always kept the 3 point in the full upright position. Never a problem.

 

[leveraddict]

Your problem is not air.

You have pressure at the work port but cylinder will not extend. This is pretty easy to diagnose.. Some quick possibilities and tests:

1. The work port coupler is not allowing that oil to reach the cylinder. Disconnect the hose at the cylinder and put it in a bucket. Try to raise the loader. No oil in the bucket the coupler is not properly connected. If you get oil out of the hose the coupler is connected and working. Reconnect hose and go to step 2.
2. At this point we know the pressure is getting to the base end but the oil in the rod end cannot exit and the cylinder is hydraulically locked. Disconnect the rod end hose coming back to the valve and put it in a bucket. Try to raise the loader. If it raises we know something downline of that hose is blocked. Reconnect the hose.
3. with the tractor shut off disconnect the power beyond hose going from the valve back to the tractor and put it in the transmission filler. Start the tractor and try to raise the loader. If it will not raise the workport coupler on the loader valve is not connected properly. If it does raise something downstream of the loader valve is blocking power beyond

Run those tests and report your findings. If the problem is downstream of the loader valve (likely) I will give you some more tests to run.

Dan

I will try #1 and #2 tomorrow.
#3 the power beyond hose is at the rear of the tractor. It can only connect to its correct coupler the others are different. The BX is a little different than some of the bigger tractors. I will report back tomorrow. Thank you for all the help I really appreciate it!

 

[TheOldHokie]

I tried the 3 point all the way down and it still doesnt work. I have had this tractor since Oct 2017 and always kept the 3 point in the full upright position. Never a problem.

Now you have a problem. People are trying to help you find it. Help them help you. Run the tests.

Dan

 

[TheOldHokie]

I will try #1 and #2 tomorrow.
#3 the power beyond hose is at the rear of the tractor. It can only connect to its correct coupler the others are different. The BX is a little different than some of the bigger tractors. I will report back tomorrow. Thank you for all the help I really appreciate it!

Just do #2 and tell us what happens. Dollars to donuts the loader raises with that hose disconnected.

Dan

 

[07wingnut]

Quick guess, one or two of your quick disconnects for the FEL has become unseated and needs to be reinserted. If you have the system where all FEL hoses connect as a unit, this may or may not be possible.

 

[DustyRusty]

I had a similar problem and it turned out to be the mid-mount motor linkage was bound up. It was a while ago, and I don't remember exactly what I did, but it had something to do with the mower height adjustment.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Quick guess, one or two of your quick disconnects for the FEL has become unseated and needs to be reinserted. If you have the system where all FEL hoses connect as a unit, this may or may not be possible.

I had a similar problem and it turned out to be the mid-mount motor linkage was bound up. It was a while ago, and I don't remember exactly what I did, but it had something to do with the mower height adjustment.

These are all possible sources of circuit blockage. The way to diagnose and eliminate or confirm them is to walk the circuit front to back (pump to 3pt valve) disconnecting the circuit and testing loader operation as you go. At some point the loader will stop working with the circuit disconnected and you will have found the problem.

Dan

 

[TheOldHokie]

Just do #2 and tell us what happens. Dollars to donuts the loader raises with that hose disconnected.

Dan

Let me start with an apology - I have been thinking in terms of the oil flow on the larger machines and the BX23 does it differently. On the BX23 the pump is in the rear and power beyond flow goes to backhoe first, through backhoe valve to loader valve, out the loader valve power beyond port and back to tank via the 3pt valve. So the backhoe valve and connections can be eliminated as a source of the problem.

The 4 way quick coupler on the loader hoses also complicates the testing. Let me start there. Here is a picture with the 4 way block with the cylinder hose connections circled. I don't know which hose is which so you need to follow the hoses/pipes to determine which hose goes to the rod end of the lift cylinders. That is the one we are going to disconnect (unscrew) from the 4 way coupler. Do that with the loader firmly on the ground and put the end of that hose in a bucket. Now start the tractor and try to raise the loader.

DO NOT MOVE THE JOYSTICK TO THE LOWER POSITION WITH THAT HOSE DISCONNECTED
RECONNECT THE HOSE IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TEST AND BEFORE TRYING TO LOWER THE LOADER
ATTEMPTING TO LOWER THE LOADER WITH THAT HOSE DISCONNECTED MAY MAKE A BIG OILY MESS ​

If the loader does not raise with that hose disconnected oil is not getting to the base end of the lift cylinder - e.g. the base end coupler is not properly connected.

If the loader does raise with the hose disconnected we know oil is getting to the base end and there is a blockage somewhere downstream of the open end of the hose. Could be the quick coupler for the rod end hose or something in the power beyond circuit.

Run that test and we will decide where to go next depending on what it tells us.

 

[leveraddict]

Dan I will test this later today! Hopefully it is only the coupler that is bad. I kind of doubt the coupler for the lift cylinder could go bad while hooked up and running the machine? I could see if I had just connected it and it stopped working, but im no hydraulics guy for sure! I will post back later today. Happy 4th of July!

 

[TheOldHokie]

Dan I will test this later today! Hopefully it is only the coupler that is bad. I kind of doubt the coupler for the lift cylinder could go bad while hooked up and running the machine? I could see if I had just connected it and it stopped working, but im no hydraulics guy for sure! I will post back later today. Happy 4th of July!

Does seem unlikely. First step is to determine the supply side of the circuit is working. You have already tested the tractor side with your gsuge. Next is to test the cylinder side by disconnecting a cylinder hose. That way we know rather than guess/assume.

Dan