L5450 with FEL not working

[Rusty Cuts]

Hi.

Last year I bought an l5450 with an La 1150 fel, fel not attached. Connections were pretty ordinary, and finally replaced the main connections.

No movement on the hydraulics.

The hoses had a bit of water in them, and the disconnected hoses for one of the rams (ram is absent) had air.

I have bled the system to the best of my ability, one of the main hoses has a slight leak.

On the tractor it also has 2 joysticks hooked up for other implements and the PTO isn't disengaging. The 3pl isn't raising or lowering anymore.

I haven't cracked the hose nuts at the joystick control in the loader frame.

The dipstick shows enough oil for the hydraulics and the tracto itself was serviced before I bought it.

So... any thoughts about what's next before I call the local hydraulics guy.

 

[Rusty Cuts]

Hi.

Last year I bought an l5450 with an La 1150 fel, fel not attached. Connections were pretty ordinary, and finally replaced the main connections.

No movement on the hydraulics.

The hoses had a bit of water in them, and the disconnected hoses for one of the rams (ram is absent) had air.

I have bled the system to the best of my ability, one of the main hoses has a slight leak.

On the tractor it also has 2 joysticks hooked up for other implements and the PTO isn't disengaging. The 3pl isn't raising or lowering anymore.

I haven't cracked the hose nuts at the joystick control in the loader frame.

The dipstick shows enough oil for the hydraulics and the tractor itself was serviced before I bought it.

So... any thoughts about what's next before I call the local hydraulics guy.

 

[GrizBota]

Just a guess from what I’ve read on this site. There may be a hydraulic line near the fire wall that is cracked and sucking air?

 

[Rusty Cuts]

Just a guess from what I’ve read on this site. There may be a hydraulic line near the fire wall that is cracked and sucking air?

Any idea where to find this hose, is it flexible or steel?

 

[GrizBota]

Just going off recollection, I’ve never had this issues. Seems like the lower right corner of the firewall and a rubber line?

There’s a couple guys on here that will probably chime in and tell you where it’s at, if that’s even the issue.

 

[rbargeron]

I've had three of these machines (an L4150 and 2 L5450's). It would help a lot if you could post a few pics of how the hoses are routed and connected now. Normally there are 7 hoses at the valve - and the machine may or may not have provision for more hydraulics out back. There might be optional remotes with levers by your left elbow. If the loader was not mounted when you got the machine, something may not be connected where it needs to be.

PTO engagement on these machines is all gears and levers (no hydraulics). The engagement linkage may be out of adjustment. The shaft turning may not mean its clutch or gears are engaged - might just be gear lube drag. Try holding a piece of wood against the turning shaft - does it stop easily?

Does the machine have the hydraulic shuttle (EC on the hood)? If so the pto clutch is controlled by the lever by the seat. Take care, Dick B.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Hi.

Last year I bought an l5450 with an La 1150 fel, fel not attached. Connections were pretty ordinary, and finally replaced the main connections.

No movement on the hydraulics.

The hoses had a bit of water in them, and the disconnected hoses for one of the rams (ram is absent) had air.

I have bled the system to the best of my ability, one of the main hoses has a slight leak.

On the tractor it also has 2 joysticks hooked up for other implements and the PTO isn't disengaging. The 3pl isn't raising or lowering anymore.

I haven't cracked the hose nuts at the joystick control in the loader frame.

The dipstick shows enough oil for the hydraulics and the tractor itself was serviced before I bought it.

So... any thoughts about what's next before I call the local hydraulics guy.

Sounds like you have farmerized hydraulics (2 extra joysticks). Time to start at the front loader valve and decipher that plumbing. Post a picture or two of the loader valve connections to the tractor. There should be three hoses.

Dan

 

[TheOldHokie]

Hi.

Last year I bought an l5450 with an La 1150 fel, fel not attached. Connections were pretty ordinary, and finally replaced the main connections.

No movement on the hydraulics.

The hoses had a bit of water in them, and the disconnected hoses for one of the rams (ram is absent) had air.

I have bled the system to the best of my ability, one of the main hoses has a slight leak.

On the tractor it also has 2 joysticks hooked up for other implements and the PTO isn't disengaging. The 3pl isn't raising or lowering anymore.

I haven't cracked the hose nuts at the joystick control in the loader frame.

The dipstick shows enough oil for the hydraulics and the tracto itself was serviced before I bought it.

So... any thoughts about what's next before I call the local hydraulics guy.

Sounds like a farmerized setup. Does it really have joysticks or just levers. In any eventv start with getting.the loader to work. Post some pictures of the connection from loader to tractor - should be 3 hoses.

Dan

 

[Rusty Cuts]

Hi Dan.
Yes it is a farmerized set up, the old dear worked on a large orchard it was used for towing water around.

I decided to clean off 30 years of dirt and oil before posting pictures, still scraping and brushing before washing, long handled screw drivers are my new friends, lol, I could use a long brush to put in the drill , oh well.

Hour meter is stuck on 630, and dirt was pretty solid around the hydraulics oil filter, so I will replace that once everything is clean.

I will post updates once cleaning is completed.

 

[Rusty Cuts]

Uplate, after cleaning everything I decided to trace all hydraulic circuits.

Somebody altered the hydraulics flow from the output to a by pass and then fed the returning line straight to the inflow on top of the gearbox.

So tomorrow's job is to find suitable capping bolts for the bypass lines and attach the output line to the front end loader.

The 2 yellow cable ties are supposed to be together.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Uplate, after cleaning everything I decided to trace all hydraulic circuits.

Somebody altered the hydraulics flow from the output to a by pass and then fed the returning line straight to the inflow on top of the gearbox.

So tomorrow's job is to find suitable capping bolts for the bypass lines and attach the output line to the front end loader.

The 2 yellow cable ties are supposed to be together.

The OEM loader connection IS a bypass circuit with three hoses:

1) Pump flow out to loader valve
2) Power beyond flow from loader valve back to tractor
3) Tank return from loader valve back to tractor filler.

Are you sure you understsnd that part if the circuit? Hooking it up wrong can block an artery and provoke a hydraulic heart attack.

I am not real familiar with your machine but I think that outlet block has a built in selector valve as well. The operatiin of that selector should be described in the operators manual. I have labeled the standard connections shown in your picture. They look correct to me. The one marked ???? is something different and you need to tell us where all of those hoses are going.

Dan

 

[Rusty Cuts]

I've had three of these machines (an L4150 and 2 L5450's). It would help a lot if you could post a few pics of how the hoses are routed and connected now. Normally there are 7 hoses at the valve - and the machine may or may not have provision for more hydraulics out back. There might be optional remotes with levers by your left elbow. If the loader was not mounted when you got the machine, something may not be connected where it needs to be.

PTO engagement on these machines is all gears and levers (no hydraulics). The engagement linkage may be out of adjustment. The shaft turning may not mean its clutch or gears are engaged - might just be gear lube drag. Try holding a piece of wood against the turning shaft - does it stop easily?

Does the machine have the hydraulic shuttle (EC on the hood)? If so the pto clutch is controlled by the lever by the seat. Take care, Dick B.

Hi,thanks I found the PTO control valve, it still turns at all times.
The hydraulics now lift and drop the 3pl.

Traced the hydraulic lines by using different coloured zip ties on each circuit, turns out the main output wasn't connected to the fel circuit.

Now it works, and I have 2 isolated and currently unused hydraulic circuits.

The "keys" that holds the fel to the frame attached to the tractor, currently cut, welded and tightened 2 pieces of 1 inch box steel, top piece with a 60 degree cut and an m20 or 3/4 inch diameter thread bolt through the bottom piece to lock it in place.

Not sure if that will hold the arms in place if fully loaded, I have considered cutting and welding flat bar to fit to reduce fatigue of the box steel. Or weld a 3/16 or 5mm piece of flat bar across the open part of the angle cut.

And anyone reading this doesn't own an L1150 FEL or worked with one then you wouldn't understand what I am talking about

 

[GrizBota]

We’re simple folks here. Pictures, we get those.

 

[Rusty Cuts]

The OEM loader connection IS a bypass circuit with three hoses:

1) Pump flow out to loader valve
2) Power beyond flow from loader valve back to tractor
3) Tank return from loader valve back to tractor filler.

Are you sure you understsnd that part if the circuit? Hooking it up wrong can block an artery and provoke a hydraulic heart attack.

I am not real familiar with your machine but I think that outlet block has a built in selector valve as well. The operatiin of that selector should be described in the operators manual. I have labeled the standard connections shown in your picture. They look correct to me. The one marked ???? is something different and you need to tell us where all of those hoses are going.

Dan

View attachment 104527

I've been busy... anyway the pipe you have the question marks on is supposed to be joined the same yellow tag on the pump inlet/outlet, and now it is.
Everything is working as it should, now I have a hydraulic piston leaking so a rebuild to do, about $60 Australian and a couple of hours.

Found 2 separate hydraulic circuits and they are now isolated, I guess if I want a backhoe and other goodies I am good to go.

The "keys" that hold the fel to the chassis sub frame were missing and I manufactured 2 keys from 1 inch box steel, top piece cut at about 45 degrees, both welded and an m20 or 3/4 inch diameter shank bolt to pull the "key" into place.

I hope the integrity of the steel is maintained when I put it under load.

 

[TheOldHokie]

I've been busy... anyway the pipe you have the question marks on is supposed to be joined the same yellow tag on the pump inlet/outlet, and now it is.
Everything is working as it should, now I have a hydraulic piston leaking so a rebuild to do, about $60 Australian and a couple of hours.

Found 2 separate hydraulic circuits and they are now isolated, I guess if I want a backhoe and other goodies I am good to go.

That explanation is greek to me and I cant see how those two pipes should ever be connected. Here is a diagram of how the loader valve is supposed to be plumbed in. The arrows indicate teh diretion of oil flow and there should be no other connections.

P is the loader valve inlet port,.

PB is the loader valve power beyond port

T is the loader valve tank return port.

The tank return port connects straight to tank and is often routed to the hydraulic filler on the tractor. It should not be connected to any other valves.

Dan

 

[rbargeron]

Hi,thanks I found the PTO control valve, it still turns at all times.
The hydraulics now lift and drop the 3pl.

Traced the hydraulic lines by using different coloured zip ties on each circuit, turns out the main output wasn't connected to the fel circuit.

Now it works, and I have 2 isolated and currently unused hydraulic circuits.

The "keys" that holds the fel to the frame attached to the tractor, currently cut, welded and tightened 2 pieces of 1 inch box steel, top piece with a 60 degree cut and an m20 or 3/4 inch diameter thread bolt through the bottom piece to lock it in place.

Not sure if that will hold the arms in place if fully loaded, I have considered cutting and welding flat bar to fit to reduce fatigue of the box steel. Or weld a 3/16 or 5mm piece of flat bar across the open part of the angle cut.

And anyone reading this doesn't own an L1150 FEL or worked with one then you wouldn't understand what I am talking about

I think anything made of steel or aluminum that fits into place to block the loader posts from freely jumping up will be adequate.

When my first LA1150 was new I lost one of the wedges - a new one was pretty expensive - something home-made like yours would have worked fine!

And about your spinning pto, the lever down by your left heel will disengage it. The hand lever pto clutch up by the seat starts and stops it - and the lower lever used to be for a 2-speed pto (Hi-off-Lo), but now is just Lo and OFF. Its a gear shifter - no hydraulics involved in the pto. The higher speed was taken out on later models for the US. More discussion here about reinstating a 2-spd pto on one of these. (a few machines now have this mod)

The low-mounted pto speed lever is technically not redundant. When the hand-clutch is pulled up, spring force pushes against the engine crank's thrust bearing - which gets unneccesary wear. So the owner's book says run with the hand clutch down.

 

[Rusty Cuts]

That explanation is greek to me and I cant see how those two pipes should ever be connected. Here is a diagram of how the loader valve is supposed to be plumbed in. The arrows indicate teh diretion of oil flow and there should be no other connections.

P is the loader valve inlet port,.

PB is the loader valve power beyond port

T is the loader valve tank return port.

The tank return port connects straight to tank and is often routed to the hydraulic filler on the tractor. It should not be connected to any other valves.

Dan

View attachment 104844

Ok basically the hydraulics for the FEL are connected as per the parts diagram from messicks which I printed out and then colour coded the hydraulic hoses so it works.

When I started the tractor is when I discovered the leaking hydraulic fluid from one of the bucket rams.

There is a circuit to another set of levers on the tractor which are now isolated, and there is another control valve installed beside the driver's seat on the far left. This circuit was already isolated and looped back on itself.
I didn't take photos when the seat was out.

It took cleaning all of the dirt off to check, trace and label these circuits, there are a total of 9 hoses not linked to the original FEL circuit and 4 of those are connectors ending near the PTO.

I will worry about how to use these another day, my main uses for this machine is for the bucket, some tilling of the soil and to haul trailers around my 5 acres.

On the "keys" I made for locking in the FEL I have posted photos of them too.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Ok basically the hydraulics for the FEL are connected as per the parts diagram from messicks which I printed out and then colour coded the hydraulic hoses so it works.

Is this the diagram you used? If so it is identical to what I provided. Two hoses connecting outlet block to valve and a third going to sump filler.

There is a circuit to another set of levers on the tractor which are now isolated, and there is another control valve installed beside the driver's seat on the far left. This circuit was already isolated and looped back on itself. I didn't take photos when the seat was out.

Is this the lever/valve under the seat? If so it is also plumbed into that circuit - not isolated - and should be fully functional. You should have loader, one set of remotes, and 3 pt all working.

Dan

 

[Rusty Cuts]

HI Da

Is this the diagram you used? If so it is identical to what I provided. Two hoses connecting outlet block to valve and a third going to sump filler.

View attachment 104909



Is this the lever/valve under the seat? If so it is also plumbed into that circuit - not isolated - and should be fully functional. You should have loader, one set of remotes, and 3 pt all working.

Dan

View attachment 104911

 

[Rusty Cuts]

[/QUOTE]
Hi Dan, yes to the first diagram.

The second diagram, thankyou, I hadn't seen that diagram, it was looped back onto itself with a bridging piece, no male and female connectors and hanging down over the right side of the axle, I figure it is a basic on/off switch for whatever it is attached to.

I wonder if before someone rearranged everything so nothing worked, it was attached to the levers on the right hand side on the tractor fender? (Already pictured above)

Edit, the twin ports to the PTO on the right hand side are connected to the twin lever set up on the fender.

The sump filler also has a t piece with a hose connected back to the twin levers on the fender... however that's been altered too, hydraulic fluid bypasses the leversand so I am uncertain what is connected where.

If I can find diagrams like messicks, no I haven't looked yet, then I am sure I can figure it out, then all I will need is decals, or use my trusty paint pen for which way to push the lever.

Process of elimination....