Electric Cars - 12 minutes worth watching

[GreensvilleJay]

re: Why must you include the battery replacement cost when comparing

It's no different than oil changes,filters,antifreeze, etc. stuff EVers use as 'cost' for an ICE BUT they never include the battery cost, currently 1/3rd of a new Lightning, which only has an 8 year life.Also up here there's a HUGE 'recycle' fee for the battery. Just don't get me going on the 'carbon tax' though ! Currently 1/4 of my natgas bill IS the 'carbon tax'....

Apples to apples.
It'd be nice to see an honest comparison, similar vehicle (size,weight, use,location) over a 20 year period.

 

[lynnmor]

Don't forget gas tax. The revenues will go down sharply and they will have to tax you on the amount of miles you travel. Someone has to pay for the roads. Here they do yearly inspection so can see how many miles you traveled and then bull you accordingly

People are in for a real awaking when that buzzard comes home to roost. Currently the EV folks are contributing next to nothing for highways. Governments have no clue how they will address the issue.

 

[The Evil Twin]

Oil vs. Cobalt. I'm sure there are some kids that would rather be in school instead of a mine.

 

[jimh406]

People are in for a real awaking when that buzzard comes home to roost. Currently the EV folks are contributing next to nothing for highways. Governments have no clue how they will address the issue.

Some state governments are pretty good at increasing taxes on anything including EVs. I think those are the ones that have a lot of adoption like, CA, OR, WA. Likewise already have taxes on usage and extra licensing fees for EVs, or they are on the way.

 

[Fordtech86]

Oil vs. Cobalt. I'm sure there are some kids that would rather be in school instead of a mine.

View attachment 99136

View attachment 99137

Meh, aint our kids

 

[lynnmor]

Some state governments are pretty good at increasing taxes on anything including EVs. I think those are the ones that have a lot of adoption like, CA, OR, WA. Likewise already have taxes on usage and extra licensing fees for EVs, or they are on the way.

They are also good at handing out $7500 towards the purchase of an EV. Control is the goal.

 

[mikester]

re: Why must you include the battery replacement cost when comparing

It's no different than oil changes,filters,antifreeze, etc. stuff EVers use as 'cost' for an ICE BUT they never include the battery cost, currently 1/3rd of a new Lightning, which only has an 8 year life.Also up here there's a HUGE 'recycle' fee for the battery. Just don't get me going on the 'carbon tax' though ! Currently 1/4 of my natgas bill IS the 'carbon tax'....

Apples to apples.
It'd be nice to see an honest comparison, similar vehicle (size,weight, use,location) over a 20 year period.

The Tesla owners never seem to report that insurance deductibles and annual premiums are higher than for a comparable hybrid. A brand new Tesla Model 3 costs 50% more to insure with a $2K deductible than a brand new Prius Prime plug-in hybrid with a $500 deductible.

That pretty much negates the fuel cost savings.

If you live in an area where they use excessive winter salt on the roads you will still need to do brake services every year on your Tesla and plug-in hybrids. The brakes don't get used much with regenerative braking which means they get seized up with corrosion quicker than regular cars.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

and house premiums will go up if you have an EV/HY in you attached garage...
seems fire departments can't put out self igniting car fires too easily...
it's that water and lithium 'chemistry thing'.....

 

[xrocketengineer]

I am not an an electric car hater (maybe Hyundai hater) but this takes the cake:

 

[Tarmy]

There is some serious denial going on. The fact that we have this discussion on a forum for tractors, typically DIESEL engines, is interesting.

Something that also gets lost is collision repair costs for EVs is way higher. The WSJ just had an interesting article about it.

I am in Tesla central., followed closely by Prius and every other EV. The hubris of many drivers is truely amazing. The Tesla’s are fast, very fast…and most around here are either speeding, on the phone and speeding or simply not paying attention.

Like most things, there is a place for them for some individual. The cramming it down everybody’s throat is what gets me. We already have a grid that fails regularly, no way this state will be able to power these new vehicles. Hydro power out here is considered non renewable so there will be no new capacity created with that which leaves a hole in the plan. Oh, an hydrogen is just off loaded the contaminants on somebody else’s home where it is loaded into fuel cells, ask San Joaquin county about that..

This state has outlawed all ICE engines under 25 horse here shortly (think generators, chainsaws, lawnmowers, etc). We have requirement to have no ICE sales in 2035 (or so). So where, exactly, do trucks, earthwork equipment, snowplow equipment in the Sierra Nevadas, service trucks, hell PG &E vehicles all come from?

Should be great when Newscum is President…

 

[chim]

There is some serious denial going on. The fact that we have this discussion on a forum for tractors, typically DIESEL engines, is interesting.

Something that also gets lost is collision repair costs for EVs is way higher. The WSJ just had an interesting article about it.

I am in Tesla central., followed closely by Prius and every other EV. The hubris of many drivers is truely amazing. The Tesla’s are fast, very fast…and most around here are either speeding, on the phone and speeding or simply not paying attention.

Like most things, there is a place for them for some individual. The cramming it down everybody’s throat is what gets me. We already have a grid that fails regularly, no way this state will be able to power these new vehicles. Hydro power out here is considered non renewable so there will be no new capacity created with that which leaves a hole in the plan. Oh, an hydrogen is just off loaded the contaminants on somebody else’s home where it is loaded into fuel cells, ask San Joaquin county about that..

This state has outlawed all ICE engines under 25 horse here shortly (think generators, chainsaws, lawnmowers, etc). We have requirement to have no ICE sales in 2035 (or so). So where, exactly, do trucks, earthwork equipment, snowplow equipment in the Sierra Nevadas, service trucks, hell PG &E vehicles all come from?

Should be great when Newscum is President…

It is past time for people to JUST SAY NO to all this garbage. If everyone from manufacturing on down would have the gumption to simply ignore the feds, what would they do? Can't arrest 300 million people.

 

[trial and error]

It is past time for people to JUST SAY NO to all this garbage. If everyone from manufacturing on down would have the gumption to simply ignore the feds, what would they do? Can't arrest 300 million people.

We saw how well that worked with the (covid) vaccine mandates, if there had been unity amongst the people far less people would have lost their jobs, retirement medical insurance etc.

 

[Poohbear]

People are in for a real awaking when that buzzard comes home to roost. Currently the EV folks are contributing next to nothing for highways. Governments have no clue how they will address the issue.

Texas finally figured this out. My nephew just bought a Tesla & his license plates were like $1600 bucks. What the plates will be next time don't know.
I am a firm believer that only the market should decide on the EV . When the POTUS has a EV limo and AF1 uses a non polluting fuel then I'll think about possibly owning one in the future.

 

[skeets]

I figure Ill get an EV when someone comes up with an LS conversion kit

 

[lynnmor]

Texas finally figured this out. My nephew just bought a Tesla & his license plates were like $1600 bucks. What the plates will be next time don't know.
I am a firm believer that only the market should decide on the EV . When the POTUS has a EV limo and AF1 uses a non polluting fuel then I'll think about possibly owning one in the future.

Of course he will become a contributing member of the motoring public when the $7500 rebate is paid back and then pays an amount equivalent to what other motorists with similar weight vehicles paid.

 

[S-G-R]

 

[Daferris]

View attachment 118011

As a matter of fact.... Yes, And Rush, Linkin Park, Eminen and more....
My bank account does not lie... It will be 6 years in February that I have had my Volt. It's the the best car i have owned in over 50 years. Fun fact Michigan charges extra on the plate to make up for the lack of gas tax. For those complaining about the tax credit for getting an EV perhaps all the tax credits should be removed from the oil companies as well as they should pay the true value for the land they lease from the feds to drill on...
Bottom line it costs me less than 1/2 what it cost me to drive my old ice car I sold when I got the Volt. A car that averaged 27MPG.

 

[Daren Todd]

People are in for a real awaking when that buzzard comes home to roost. Currently the EV folks are contributing next to nothing for highways. Governments have no clue how they will address the issue.

States are starting to charge more for yearly registration fees for EV's.

Tags for your average Ice Vehicle are $25. I believe Arkansas is charging over $100 for an EV tag.

I'm willing to bet, they will start requiring an odometer reading with the yearly tag fee on a sliding scale to make up for the loss of road tax at the pump.

 

[GreensvilleJay]

I'd buy a Ford F150 EV, IF it was a regular cab, short box version AND could actually get me to my SIL's place 240 miles away, with two in the cab, 500" of stuff in the box and towing a 3,000 trailer.
Sadly no such truck available and neither a Volt nor Tesla will pull my trailer where it has to go.
Add to that $24K in electrical upgrades to my house and of course the 25c/kwh forever to recharge the battery and in 7 years replace the battery for $27K. Oh yeah, no home insurance unless truck is NOT stored in attached garage.
Do EVs have their place ? Yes. rode in one 60 years ago , milk delivery duty. Don't see any 'fleets' in cities using them though...hmmm...
Yes, tax the EVs for using the roads OR remove the road tax for everyone else ! Still upset car parts come in from Michigan,get dropped off, truckers go to Buffalo, pay zip for using our roads, don't fillup either.

 

[jimh406]

Bottom line it costs me less than 1/2 what it cost me to drive my old ice car I sold when I got the Volt. A car that averaged 27MPG.

I guess you'll find out what the true cost to own is later when the batteries need to be replaced, power prices go up, etc. I don't disagree that in this moment in time you feel an EV is cheaper.

However, penciling out the actual true cost to own can get complicated. It's possible to find very inexpensive used ICE vehicles, or you can simply keep the one you have. The money saved compared to a EV initial cost, charging circuit at home, and charging can buy a lot of gasoline even at the current inflated prices. . Also, it's yet to be determined what the used market/tradein will be like in a few years.

Of course, if you feel you have to buy a new vehicle fairly often, the math goes out the window because anyone who is doing that is leaving a lot of money on the table. I'm ok with people blowing money any way they want.