New(ish) Kubota M62 With Filthy Hydraulic Oil

[Putneymountain]

Kubota M62 With High Insolubles in Hydraulic Oil

We have a pretty new Kubota M62 with just about 200 hours.

I was changing the hydraulic and transmission oil filters and took a look at the oil itself. It looked much dirtier than I had ever seen in our other machines. I could actually see thousands of tiny dark particles floating and swirling in the oil.

See attached picture – new Kubota UDT2 is on the right and used (200 hours) is on the left.

I sent a specimen off for analysis (also attached), which confirmed that the insolvables are 0.4% which is above the recommended maximum of less than 0.1%. This has me pretty confused in such a new machine…

• Is this normal? Have to change the oil at 200 hours?
• Any thoughts on the cause of this?
• Has anyone seen this before?
• I’m going to change the oil and the filters – anything else I should do?

Thanks in advance for any help. (I also posted this over at Bynet)

 

[PoTreeBoy]

Kubota M62 With High Insolubles in Hydraulic Oil

We have a pretty new Kubota M62 with just about 200 hours.

I was changing the hydraulic and transmission oil filters and took a look at the oil itself. It looked much dirtier than I had ever seen in our other machines. I could actually see thousands of tiny dark particles floating and swirling in the oil.

See attached picture – new Kubota UDT2 is on the right and used (200 hours) is on the left.

I sent a specimen off for analysis (also attached), which confirmed that the insolvables are 0.4% which is above the recommended maximum of less than 0.1%. This has me pretty confused in such a new machine…

• Is this normal? Have to change the oil at 200 hours?
• Any thoughts on the cause of this?
• Has anyone seen this before?
• I’m going to change the oil and the filters – anything else I should do?

Thanks in advance for any help. (I also posted this over at Bynet)

When does your owners manual call for the first change?

 

[TheOldHokie]

When does your owners manual call for the first change?

Interesting. I am not an expert at oil analysis but:

• My immediate reaction looking at the picture was water contamination but your analysis reports 0%. I am guessing that only measures free water.
• KV100 is down almost 10% and KV40 is up almost 47%.
• Everything else looks pretty normal

Wild ass guess is you have experienced some form of water contamination and the solids are the result of additives reacting with that water and percipitating out of solution. What did Blackstone say?

Dan

 

[Fordtech86]

My immediate reaction looking at the picture was water contamination but your analysis reports 0%.

That was my first thought as well.

Could it be marking compound from assembly? Seems excessive in the jar though…reminds me of the gear lube in the axles on the newer Fords from the factory.

 

[fried1765]

That was my first thought as well.

Could it be marking compound from assembly? Seems excessive in the jar though…reminds me of the gear lube in the axles on the newer Fords from the factory.

That cloudy appearance definitely suggests system water intrusion to me.

 

[Fordtech86]

That cloudy appearance definitely suggests system water intrusion to me.

If OP hadn’t posted the analysis, I would agree…

 

[TheOldHokie]

If OP hadn’t posted the analysis, I would agree…

What about the analysis leads you to think differently?

Dan

 

[GeoHorn]

yep… water. (and the lab report could simply be Wrong….or a mis-identified customer and sample.)

 

[ruger1980]

I would say water ingress as well. UTTO's are designed to absorb water and hold it where as water will drop out of suspension in hyd. oil.
If you wanted to know the extent of solids you would have to order a particle count which would be standard for a hydraulic oil sample. If labeled transmission oil I am not sure what Blackstone includes in their testing options.

 

[Fordtech86]

What about the analysis leads you to think differently?

Personal experience and what ifs…

Disclaimer: had the OP just posted a picture of the fluid they drained, I would say yes it has water in it.

I would also suspect there would a hydraulic performance issue if the fluid was contaminated that bad.

 

[lugbolt]

around 2015-ish there were a few tractors that showed up at the shop with the exact same thing. Contamination. Came from the factory that way.

Wasn't very many of them, maybe a dozen total (out of about 400 they sold that year), so mostly isolated. Kubota picked up the tab on all of them-and we were advised that it was isolated to a certain number of them, we just happened to have more than other dealers in the area. Not a big deal, drain & refill twice, they never showed up again for any other problem. Some guys waited til the 200hr interval and knocked that out, kubota paying for it. Nice!

I can't recall seeing any of the M62's with this issue. Mostly L3301/3901 and one L4701.

Tractors that sit a lot, or get used infrequently and for shorter amounts of time such that the fluids never really get warm, this can absolutely happen. Just moisture that gets suspended and no black stone won't pick it up as water; or never did in the many times I've had them tested.

 

[Motion]

When you say pretty new, are you the first owner? Do you use third function equipment? Rear remotes? Is this the first change you did? When you changed the fluid had the tractor been sitting, meaning when removing the drain plugs was there any free water? I'd suggest fresh fluid and multiple filter changes and start a clean up process (FEL cylinders still have contaminated fluid and any equipment used). As filters are changed save the fluid in glass jars to ensure it's cleaning up. Once cleaned change fluid and filters, monitor system going forward.

 

[BAP]

If you are the only owner since new, did you do the 50 hour filter change on it?

 

[GeoHorn]

Presumably this can happen if one uses rental equipment.

 

[jkrubi12]

I'd agree with above members that the fluid was likely contaminated through the hooking up (hydraulically) of attachments containing contaminants.

Hopefully the double fill treatment gets rid of all the contaminants; I would personally 'flush' any native hoses or attachments (loader, BH, etc.). I would NOT flush said equipment by filling with new fluid and 'working' the attachments, but rather devise a method of forcing out contaminated fluid without cycling same through the rest of the hydro system. Good luck!

 

[Putneymountain]

Thanks everyone.

Additional Information:

Tractor was purchased new – no previous owners.

All maintenance done at the suggested hours.

No use of hydraulically driven attachments.

We’re very careful with the cleanliness of the hydraulic connectors when taking the backhoe off/on.

Tractor get us every other day or so – always to recommended temperature.

 

[TheOldHokie]

Thanks everyone.

Additional Information:

Tractor was purchased new – no previous owners.

All maintenance done at the suggested hours.

No use of hydraulically driven attachments.

We’re very careful with the cleanliness of the hydraulic connectors when taking the backhoe off/on.

Tractor get us every other day or so – always to recommended temperature.

I would go with someones earlier advice - drain, flush, refill, and watch it.

Dan

 

[fried1765]

Thanks everyone.

Additional Information:

Tractor was purchased new – no previous owners.

All maintenance done at the suggested hours.

No use of hydraulically driven attachments.

We’re very careful with the cleanliness of the hydraulic connectors when taking the backhoe off/on.

Tractor get us every other day or so – always to recommended temperature.

Does the machine mostly sit outside?

 

[Henro]

If it is water, could the OP take a sample and heat it on the stove and drive the water out?

If the liquid turned clear again after heating, I know what my conclusion would be.

Have no idea if this would work or not...I would probably try it though, just for fun. At least if the wife was not home...LOL

 

[TheOldHokie]

If it is water, could the OP take a sample and heat it on the stove and drive the water out?

If the liquid turned clear again after heating, I know what my conclusion would be.

Have no idea if this would work or not...I would probably try it though, just for fun. At least if the wife was not home...LOL

One easy qualitative test for water content is to heat your wife's best skillet to almost smoking hot and pour a small sample of the used oil into it. If the sample pops, bubbles, and hisses when it contacts the hot metal surface test results are positive for water.

If caught in the act by said wife tell her you are simply trying out an interesting YouTube tip you found for seasoning fine cookware. Personally I don't have to worry in that regard because my wife does not know what cookware, fine or otherwise, is.....

Edit: Here is a good HowTo for this:

Monitor Water-In-Oil with the Visual Crackle Test

Moisture in hydraulic fluids and lubricating oils has a degrading effect on both the lubricant and the machine. While some additives cling to the water and are removed when the water separates from...

www.machinerylubrication.com

Dan