DEF---DIESEL EXHAUST FLUID

Bmyers

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SO wondering out side the box here, what else could be used? I mean a gallon of something else so the puter would think the tank is full and let the motor run? Like what would happen if you put a gallon of gas in? Or water with dawn in it,, there has to be some alternative
Well milk is supposed to be good for your bones, maybe it is good for your exhaust system too :p
 
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Bmyers

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Was reading an article on DEF and this was in it:

This week, we contacted Pilot Flying J to ask for an update. “Due to productive conversations with Union Pacific we are able to continue to utilize their rail services to supply our customers and guests,” wrote Billy Leach, a company media representative. “We look forward to maintaining this relationship to ensure that America’s over-the-road commercial trucking remains strong.”
 
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Yooper

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Was reading an article on DEF and this was in it:

This week, we contacted Pilot Flying J to ask for an update. “Due to productive conversations with Union Pacific we are able to continue to utilize their rail services to supply our customers and guests,” wrote Billy Leach, a company media representative. “We look forward to maintaining this relationship to ensure that America’s over-the-road commercial trucking remains strong.”
‘productive conversations’ Let me clarify that.$$$
 

D2Cat

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SO wondering out side the box here, what else could be used? I mean a gallon of something else so the puter would think the tank is full and let the motor run? Like what would happen if you put a gallon of gas in? Or water with dawn in it,, there has to be some alternative
Start peeing in an empty milk just and save it up !!!! :D
 

lugbolt

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If you've read this site much you've heard of "DEF header".

The def header is a shortened term that describes the module that is bolted to the top of the def tank, and the module assembly (header) contains the following components: Def heater, temperature sensor, level sensor, and the most important part in this duscussion, the def quality sensor.

The ECU (or ACU) needs to know the quality of the def. In other words, it wants to see 32.5% water, and 67.5% urea. There is a slight variation that is allowed, but IIRC only about 0.5% either way for both chemicals. The DQS sends the information it reads from the def tank to the ACU which works in conjunction with the ECU, which all do just a few things: One, sends you (the operator) a set of data whether that be just that the def tank is frozen or if the level is low/high/whatever, or if the def quality is outside the acceptable range.

So what people have realized-rightfully so-is that the entire def system is just another set of complications to an already complex system of running the engine. And with that, they're absolutely right. You have not only the header assembly, tank, and lines, you also have a def injector--which is screwed directly into the exhaust pipe, subject to HEAT, plus you have wiring which in a tractor or skid loader is subject to debris. Sticks, animals, whatever--all easily damaged and thus can get kinda expensive to fix.

The EPA is the root of all of it, but the EPA doesn't care how their emissions limits are met, but rather that they are met (in a nutshell). So, it's currently the least intrusive and least expensive to use the systems that are currently mass produced.

But now we see the downsides of not being self-sufficient. If we are reliant on someone else for something and that someone else decides they're not gonna send it no more, we get duped-exactly what I have been saying for decades.
 
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jkrubi12

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Okay. Got it. The reason I ask is I know how much we depend on trucking for almost everything we consume. If there is no solution to this issue I see the worst shortage problem this country has ever seen. And I have no confidence our government will get out in front of this. The preppers might be gloating here in a little bit
(MOD DELETED POLITICAL COMMENT)
 
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Bmyers

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Just curious, do military vehicles use DEF?
 

mikester

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Just curious, do military vehicles use DEF?
I'd be surprised to see vehicles designed for efficiency in killing would have any kind of concern for protecting the environment. I can't imagine logistics having to deliver yet another high demand consumable fluid other than fuel to the front lines would be popular.
 
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Fordtech86

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Just curious, do military vehicles use DEF?
I know a guy that works with many vehicles including federal, state, and local municipality vehicles that have had the emission equipment removed.

y’all want to see how hard the epa is cracking down on this, just google ford/chevy/ram dpf/egr delete (def system delete is complimentary once you pull the dpf off) 🤣🤣🤣
 

mcfarmall

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Diesel standby generators have zero emissions control stuff on them. Anything used for "life safety". Funny how reducing emissions is allegedly for saving lives, yet equipment that saves lives doesn't need it.........🤔
 
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skeets

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I was at RK this morning and there were 2 guys that between them had, I would say 35 or 40 jugs of DEF
 

Dieseldonato

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Just curious, do military vehicles use DEF?
No. Zero emissions. I worked on some very new personnel carriers at a local army base. Powered by 13L cat engines. Basically a c-14 acert engine with no emissions system. No egr, no dpf, doc, nothing. I asked about it and wad told it wad some special government only engine.
 

Dieseldonato

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Diesel standby generators have zero emissions control stuff on them. Anything used for "life safety". Funny how reducing emissions is allegedly for saving lives, yet equipment that saves lives doesn't need it.........🤔
This isn't true. York hospital has 12 660kw generators powered by 16L Volvo engines. All emission systems are fully functional. Besides military the only emission free engines i ever worked on were fire pumps for a nuclear power plant. Actually had to remove everything from the base engines, install a new ecu, control interface unit, exhaust, turbo, ect.
There is also a big difference between a generators system that is stand by only and capable of being prime power. Stand by only you can finagle older engines and some times get the emissions removed from new engines, if it can be considered a prime power engine/ generator it will never have the emission system removed. A lot of hospitals and health care facilities do peak savings and operate their generators to keep from being a drain on the grid. This automatically puts them in the prime power list.
It's not black and white and very subjective. There were also a lot and I mean a lot of engines that were produced before tier 4i or t4f set in.
 

Dieseldonato

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I know a guy that works with many vehicles including federal, state, and local municipality vehicles that have had the emission equipment removed.

y’all want to see how hard the epa is cracking down on this, just google ford/chevy/ram dpf/egr delete (def system delete is complimentary once you pull the dpf off) 🤣🤣🤣
Many of the outfitters and local shops around here have gotten warnings, and even pretty steep fines for doing "delete" kits on over the road trucks and vehicles. So much to the fact that 2 of the best diesel shops will no longer do delete kits. One of the shops has over 1 million dollars of inventory they can't and won't sell because of the fines they received.
 
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DustyRusty

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Many of the outfitters and local shops around here have gotten warnings, and even pretty steep fines for doing "delete" kits on over the road trucks and vehicles. So much to the fact that 2 of the best diesel shops will no longer do delete kits. One of the shops has over 1 million dollars of inventory they can't and won't sell because of the fines they received.
They will probably ship them to some third-world country that doesn't give a damn about EPA emissions rules and regulations when they buy our used trucks. Our industries suffer the consequences of the EPA regulations, and places like Mexico don't give a damn about their neighbor to the North.
 

GreensvilleJay

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I have ZERO sympathy for a company that has a million bux in unsalable inventory while they KNOWINGLY broke the law by installing these 'delete' kits.
 

Dieseldonato

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I have ZERO sympathy for a company that has a million bux in unsalable inventory while they KNOWINGLY broke the law by installing these 'delete' kits.
I'm pretty sure I didn't mention or elude that I wad sympathetic to their cause. Just they've faced hefty fines (twice now) and have a very large inventory they can not sell.
 

GreensvilleJay

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that's ok... all good

this is funny though..


re: Just they've faced hefty fines (twice now) and have a very large inventory they can not sell.
hehehe.. didn't learn the FIRST time !!! do NOT mess with the EPA !!!
 

Fordtech86

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You can buy the stuff readily with a simple google search then go to YouTube and see how to install it 😉
 
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